I take you as you are

[Yorkie]

Hi Yail

I'm with you on the heart v logic situation. I am fully aware of what I am doing in romanticising the situation and then I tell myself the reality. This is an ongoing process and has happened more frequently in the last couple of weeks. I don't want to be Divorced but don't want to be with this person. I feel repulsed at the thought of physicality and intimacy with him. I think it's just another stage. I now look back on 25 out of the 27 years without anger and thinking it was all bad. I guess I don't fully accept in my heart that this person has completely gone. Even though my head tells me it is the truth.

I too dream about dating someone new but I know I'm not able to do it. I know I wouldn't be able to cope with the inevitable rejection as my self esteem is in tatters.

I think we can just keep putting one foot in front of the other every day and see what happens Yail.

[Yail]

I feel like this is going to be a long one.

W came over today with a moving truck and two friends to take a bunch of furniture. She arrived first. Her voice sounded decently normal, but she wouldn't look at me. This is the first I've seen this behavior. Not that I was expecting any reaction on how I look now (hair different, very different glasses, wearing lipstick which I never used to do) but I honestly don't think she even noticed. That's how little she looked at me.

Mostly she just got to work collecting the items she was taking. Most had been agreed upon prior, and a few additional items I let her know were fine to take today. I still have plenty of furniture, but will need to do some rearranging. She was whistling a bit (which she does when she is nervous) and sniffling as if a cold (but likely trying not to cry?).

I sat in the back room doing computer work, painting my nails. It wasn't intentional, but by me painting my nails it was an obvious signal that I would not be able to help move anything. I doubt she expected me to anyway.

Her friends (H & W duo) came to help. They both used to be mutual friends. They were at our wedding. H had sold us this house. The W is a close friend of my W, and I have a strong suspicion she is an advocate for W to "find herself" or proceed with D or something. I do not think she in any way ever tried to convince W to stick with our M. This would not have changed anything, but it annoys me.

this friend has also had several rocky years with her H from what I have heard, and has considered leaving him and/or they separated for a time. I don't know the details. I don't care. But there they were today - acting as couple, helping each other move out W's [censored]. And all I could think was, "you selfish B*#$% I bet you convinced my W she needed to leave our M to find herself, all the while you wanted to do the same in your life. But here you are, and your M is still intact because you didn't want to deal with the consequences yourself."

Not very generous of me. If I have learned anything, I know that it is crazy to try to judge someone else's marriage. I have no idea what her situation is. But that was what I was feeling.

I let W know that I would be at the house for a bit, but would be leaving shortly. If she had anything to discuss with me or ask me she should let me know before I left. A few furniture questions, not much else. She will plan to come back to the house in July to get it ready to go on the market. I plan on vacating in October. At that time we will sit down and divide smaller assets which will be a tedious process. I appreciate that she has not attempted to take a single thing that was a mutual possession with out clearing it with me.

I don't know, but I'm starting to suspect W is seeing person who was OW. No proof, no indicators. Just feel like this is how these sitches usually progress, and it is therefore likely. One time today a phone was ringing (could have been any of the three of them) and no one answered it. i couldn't tell whose it was. But the idea popped in my head it might have been W's, and she wasn't answering because it was OW and she was in the house with me. Equally possible is the chance that W was outside and didn't hear the phone. So I truly have no idea. Or maybe it was one of the friends.

About a week ago I was putting clean sheets on the bed. I guess I was using a set I hadn't used in about 5 months and didn't realize. As I unrolled the sheets a pair of underwear fell out that were not mine. My world stopped.

There are several possibilities. The first and obvious - they were OWs. I'm quite sure these sheets were the ones W had brought with her to her new State when she was still part-time over there and part time at home. During this time she was staying with a friend (same one at the house today) sometimes, and later had an apartment. Would OWs underwear have been mixed up at that time? Who knows. Other possibility - they were Ws and new. This is actually most likely. They appeared to be a cheap brand (possibly Target?). She was so absent minded during that time period it is very likely she hadn't brought enough pair with her and wasn't doing laundry much so just bought a new pack. Option 3: They were this other friends, and they got mixed up in the laundry. Also likely possibility. Option 4: They were W's brothers. He stayed with us around Thanksgiving for one night, and I feel like he used these sheets on the pull-out bed. Not my place to judge if they were brothers, but I think they were technically women's though decently neutral cotton white.

I immediately threw them away and refused to get worked up about it.

Back to today. W was packing and getting more and more agitated from what I could tell. This is the most distant she has been yet. In past meetings she was just sad. But today it felt like she was pushing herself forward, and acting as if angry at me. Maybe not angry - maybe more annoyed? She didn't say anything rude and her tone was mostly neutral. I haven't done anything, so I'm not worked up about this interaction. This is all on her and I'm not playing these games.

I got the sense she is very overwhelmed by the fact she has to pack up the house, take care of her stuff, put the house on the market. Too bad.

I get the sense she feels I'm not doing anything or that I won't do anything to get the house ready. That's simply not true. I'll be getting the gardens ready and looking nice. This is for me, but also to sell the house. i'll be fixing a couple of things I haven't told her I'm going to do (restain the deck, fix a bathroom fan). She hasn't asked, and I haven't offered this information. These are my summer projects for the house i live in. These are all projects W would have historically taken on. I'm doing them because they will help me in my decision if I wish to buy a house or condo. I've lived in both, but always with W.

Her house plants, which she was so keen on taking - today she told me to dump them. She didn't want them. This is a changed behavior for sure. She loved having house plants.

She was loving towards the rabbit, who she obviously misses.

As I was leaving the three of them were in the moving truck. I just called, "I'm out" as I was leaving. W responded with a simple "K" or "Yup". That was the coldest exchange.

W has emailed me earlier this week about logistics for D. She has started paperwork and consulted a lawyer. Seems that is proceeding, though I don't know the timeline. I'm just waiting for whatever she initiates. First up is disclosing assets. We are still in agreement we will each keep our own assets and split equity of the house sale. Keep it simple and fair.

********

After all this, I ran to do errands. One of them was to go to a travel agency to ask a few questions about my upcoming trip to Italy. I leave in 3 weeks. After that I hooked up with SIL and we did some shopping. Tonight I'm going out with SIL and B after I mow the lawn. Tomorrow I hang out with BFF, then B, Mom, and grandma for mother's day.

Fun fact: It will cost me 200 euro to rent a car in Italy if manual. It would cost 800 if automatic. I am so, so grateful my dad taught me to drive a stick and that my first car was manual. It has been over 15 years but I'm sure I can do it.

So I'm focusing now on my trip to Italy and what fun I'm going to have. I have a ball of sadness in my stomach, but it's not that really tight anxiety ball that I used to get. Honestly, right now I don't see a way forward with W. I see this D proceeding and us splitting. And if we ever reconnect in any fashion I think it will be a very, very long way in the future.

Any change in dynamic between us would have to come from her. I'm not sure my ability to forgive will come as easy as it might have a few months ago. I'm really feeling the deep-down hurt these days.

I need to move on. I can't live in sadness. It goes against my nature. So i am focusing on making myself someone I am proud of. I am not looking to date, but I AM looking to open myself up to people. I would love to find a random person to make-out with (just that!) just so I can have the distraction but without the weight of a R. Maybe some flirting in my near future. Something I would have felt guilty for when partnered - I don't have that guilt any more. I need to see myself with possibilities in my future, but not make any firm steps towards an R at this time.

[FlySolo]

I am not sure how long this reply will be, or how much of it will help, but I wanted to start with there are many many days when I feel exactly how you feel right now. Facing a future on my own that I did not want, feeling confused, scared and in a strange way also, at times, optimistic about that future. Knowing that I am not ready to date and at the same time, missing that feeling of togetherness and certainty you can only really have when are part of a couple. Missing it so much that it is a physical pain deep inside me that I can't get rid of. I will tell you what I tell myself. Keep [censored] going. You are going to be fine.

Why she can't look at you
I can't tell you why your W is doing this but I can tell you why I do it. When I started DB'g I couldn't look at him. I would walk out of the room, I would talk to whatever was in the distance behind him. I did not want him to know that I was barely holding it together. I knew that if he put his arms around me I would collapse. It is a show. Remember that this hurts her. She is doing what is right for her but humans are complex creatures - there is pride and guilt mixed in with that resolve. Those emotions are easy to bury when you are living in different states barely communicating, but you're in the same house, the same house that you shared and called home, and she is moving furniture out whilst you sit in another room doing your nails. Of course she could barely get out a "K" or a "yup" - all her energy is being used up keeping it together .

BTW - yes she noticed. They always notice. They might not say anything, but they notice everything. They will put their own interpretation on it - in my case, and as my H always internets everything from a veil of negativity, it is proof that I am "wanting to make myself attractive to other people", "seeing people" or "happily moving on". Not much I can do about that. I can only control me.

And the plants - same reason as she can't look you in the eye. It hurts to do so. She is trying to show you how strong she is. In anywise, you can do what you like with them now. I would keep them (if I had a green thumb, which I don't). Greenery helps bring warmth and life to a place.

the friends
[censored] 'em. Let her do her and you do you. Don't waste your energy trying to work out the motivations of other people. It could be that they are just being there for your W or they could have been trying to sabotage your M for years. It doesn't matter. That is a tunnel you could be stuck in for years to come. Let it go. If you and your W reconcile, then you will know that you can look your W and then in the eye and know that you maintained your dignity throughout this.

the underwear
Who knows, and more importantly, you are unlikely to ever know. Could be innocent, could be proof of an A. At this stage, does it matter. How does it effect the Yail you want to be? The Yail you are becoming?

I am sorry the D seems to be moving forward. You can't stop people from doing what they will do. Sometimes you have to watch from the outside as someone destroys the life you built. Build a new one and wish her well for now.

Italy is fab. And you get to do it at your pace. There have been so many times when I've been stuck waiting for H because he wanted to look in yet another shop, or been rushed because he wanted to fit one more thing in. Go, sit in cafes, drink strong coffee, people watch. Or, if you're up in the mountains, go for long walks in the country side. Go to a wine vineyard. No matter what you do or where you go, be present and look for the beauty around you.

If you're stopping in London on your way to Italy look me up. I would love to meet Yail 2.0.

[Yail]

FS, thank you. I really needed to hear from you and was hopeful you'd be online today and able to respond.

I'll keep this brief because brother & SIL will be here any minute to pick me up. I'm glad I had the foresight to know I should be with people tonight.

So because I'm trying to keep my [censored] together and my mascara is going to start running in two seconds I'll add only the fun piece of info.

Italy: I plan on farming the whole time! I am about 95% confirmed with a farm in Tuscany. I fly in and out of Rome (boo no London!) but I head directly to the farm and will work at caring for animals (goats, pigs, cows, chickens, geese, ducks) and the cereals/alfalfa. No sight seeing this trip - mostly a working trip.

Winter break I spent seeking silence with myself. I needed it to mourn at that time. Now I need physical labor. I need to beat my body down to release this tension. And to do it while working with animals (who always understand more than people do) is exactly what I'm seeking.

Have a good weekend FlySolo. I'll be in touch soon. For now - a )(*(&^ ton of whiskey is in my future.

And Happy (american) Mother's Day to you! And to all the mums on this forum. Much love to you.

[FlySolo]

Italy sounds brilliant. Kind of like what I feel when I’m working out but with the beauty of the Tuscan hills and a sense of purpose other than getting fit. I’m so glad for you Yail.

And you’ll have those arms that look great in t-shirts and summer dresses.

[Yail]

Every time I see W and things move forward the wound is reopened. I know I'll be okay again in a day or two after calming down, and that I'm not "cycling" in the same way I was months ago. I know every step forward hurts just as bad, but a few days later I feel stronger than ever because I know I can survive and thrive.

Things in the house are still out of place since W took her furniture. Add to that the fact I'm gathering items to prepare for my trip, so I'm going through drawers I typically ignore. And I see items of W's or items that ignite a memory and I'm can't even fathom the difference that has happened so quickly.

FlySolo - you said it exactly. I am facing a future for myself that I did not want. But it was chosen for me. And I know I'll go forward and make this version of my life just as wonderful and exciting and full of love and light. But I'm still angry and hurt and so sad that I didn't have a choice in this path.

This week will be another crazy one at work (thank goodness). And when I'm not in the office I'll be 100% dedicated to working out details for my trip to Italy. I was happy and calm about the trip until today - when the anxiety around W has warped into anxiety about my trip. I've never traveled alone and it's just hitting me how independent I'll need to be on this trip. I KNOW I can do it, I just need to remind myself that I can.

[Tryhard]

Tail , keep smiling and keep putting one foot in front of the other . If you are on a journey and you keep looking behind you may trip over , stumble or get lost . Look forwards and you can see all the interesting things on the way . You can do it

[Yail]

Received a note from W today that she'll be in town this weekend and wanted to meet up for 10 minutes to start paperwork. My first reaction was that I was annoyed. I have a busy weekend and don't really want the "bleh" feeling I get when I see W interrupting that. However, I also don't want to procrastinate on this. If she's set on getting a D we can proceed.

So I gave her a single time I'm available, and I'll see if that works for her. I still don't want this, but I also don't want to keep having her interrupt this life I'm trying to build. I have no choice on my M, but I AM choosing to build an active and exciting life for myself here. If nothing happened and we were just separated for long term that would be fine with me. But the popping-up sporadically of "Oh I'm going to get things from the house" or "Oh here's what we need to do to get D" is getting old. Every step is closer to D. So might as well continue to proceed with it until it's complete.

I have this in my life until October when the house will be (likely) sold and I move out. It sounds like I'll be D by then too. So yeah, I have to hold on and recognize this will continue to happen for a while. After that I can choose to ignore or accept any communication from her. But right now these are not logistics I can hide from. Huh. Turns out that's a 180 for me. I always hid from unpleasant tasks.

It was interesting that my first emotion was "annoyed" and not "wildly hurt". I'm in transition with this situation for sure.

So in my personal life I'm still crushing on someone from afar. I will say that this has turned out to be an EXCELLENT distraction. I'm not pursuing (I don't think she's interested) but I do love the fact that I have someone to daydream about. On tough days especially it really helps get me through. I weirdly feel less lonely because I see that there is hope of love and lust in my future. I like the hope I feel when I think about her.

I stopped by her office just to chat and had a great 20 minute conversation. She's someone who I honestly would love to have as a friend - she seems really cool. Fun, social, and seems authentic. But in my head I am wildly distracted with complete lust. I don't know what it is about her that has me so infatuated but there's just some vibe I can't get enough of. Plus these hips that have me unable to stop biting my lip. If the opportunity presented itself I don't think I'd say no to her. And I don't think I'd regret that either.

She's actually a good match for me personality wise. That's also tricky, because I'm in no place for an actual R, so I really need to keep this a mental-only distraction. But UGH am I just trying to keep myself calm and collected in her presence.

So that's where I'm at today. There is pain, but there is also growth and distractions and trying to figure out what it is that I actually want in my future. I can see several paths forward. Some involve W, and some do not.

[Yail]

So much reflection these days.

I'm just about 1 year from BD. I didn't know that's what it was at the time, and the memory of that night are still hazy and I don't care to relive it. But last Memorial Day was one of the most fun and loving times. W and I and our families got together for a fun evening of cards and hanging out. It was the first time since our wedding our families had truly melded into one happy group and we had a small party at our house. Only a week or so later it all came crashing down. I was flying high that weekend and I remember being so grateful and knowing I had exactly what I wanted in terms of family.

Now I'm in a different place. I'm actively seeking joy in every small thing I do. I sat on my porch to enjoy a beer after mowing the lawn, and realized I could smell the lilacs. So I jumped up, cut a few, and put them in a vase on my porch table. I never got to do that before because W happened to dislike the smell of lilacs.

I had to work today, but had an awesome day with my student workers. I have another incredible team, and they busted their butts with me today for some manual labor that just had to get done. So I bought us all pizza and pints of ice cream and we ate it in the sunshine after our work was done. They were grateful, and so was I.

I am doing more physical things than I ever have before and it feels GOOD. I'm covering some work for a retired teammate, which involves me sweating a lot a work (my job is supposed to be a desk-based job). I come home and now I'm responsible for all the lawn care and I found I really like it. W always did this stuff and complained I never did. But I do things in my own time, when I'm ready. And I've found times in my week when I enjoy being in the dirt and pulling weeds and planting plants getting generally disgusting because we've had so much rain lately. The mosquitoes are insane and my ankles are huge with bites. I don't mind.

I've kept off the 15-20 pounds I've lost since BD. I look amazing. I'm hoping to tone up which is something I've never done. It really is fascinating how connected our exterior and interior can be. I am presenting myself as more confident, more of a bad-@$$ woman who will handle any situation, and I feel it in my core too. I'm learning that my strength is a quiet one. Not "in-your-face" aggression, more of a stable assertiveness. The world around me is responding well to this.

I am trying to be social and build friendships and strong working relationships. I am succeeding, but have a ways to go in making new friends that I feel I can hang-out with. At my core I'm still a shy person, unsure how to navigate friendships. When it was just me & W we were a very insular couple. We rarely hung out with other people because we just so genuinely enjoyed each others company that we became homebodies. I see now that while I do require a lot of time at home by myself to feel strong and confident, I also do genuinely like people. I have found myself to be more trusting, more open, and more authentic in my daily relationships.

I leave for Italy in a couple of days. I'm not packed (I'm looking at what I need to bring and afraid it won't fit in the tiny bag I've committed to). I also am getting nervous because I have not heard from the farmer I've been communicating with. I had hoped for one more confirmation that he is expecting me to show up on his farm. I hope to hear soon, otherwise I may find myself creating a "Plan B" on the fly. This will certainly be an adventure of a lifetime either way. I just hope that the farm clothes I bring will be used in my manual labor, and not something I find myself wearing while looking at museums!

I met with W this weekend, we went over the paperwork that needs to be filled out. We will connect again in July. This is proceeding steadily but not too slow and not to raced. I feel she is confident in her decision. She was quietly normal in our meeting, considering we were at a coffee shop discussing D.

Sometimes this hurts. But sometimes I'm okay with it. This still is not what I wanted. But now that I'm here, it is something that I think needs to proceed. I've been reflecting a lot on the hurt that W caused, and I'm not in a place to forgive fully right now. I'm reliving some of the specifics now that I'm 7+ months out from her moving out I'm in disbelief to some of the things she did. And I'm letting go some of the guilt and feelings that this was somehow my fault. It wasn't. I have responsibility in our relationship not being what it should have been, but this D is not about me.

Honestly, I know that right now I'm not in a place where I could work on a R with her. If by some twist of fate she dropped the D and said she wanted to come home I don't think I'd say yes. It would kill me to say so, and it would rip my heart out knowing that for so long that is all I wanted. It would rip my heart out because I know we have potential, and to walk away from that would be worse than the last year. But right now and the space I'm in I don't think I could climb that mountain of reconciliation. I just don't think I could make it.

I kind of feel like I could in the future though. I just don't think I'm far enough in my own grief process to fully forgive W, so therefore I can't be thinking about being with her even in the hypothetical. Now that I'm in this new freedom stage I need to fully experience it so I know what it means for me.

[SoTorn]

You got this Yail!! I understand that sadness that you have and also your change on feeling of forgiveness. I am in the same spot. My D is final. All that is left of my MR and family is destruction and separation.

I move out on Saturday. I doubt I will have anything to do with my EXWW. She still treats me like this is my fault. She has not changed one bit for the better. I am ok with that. However, I am still very sad about this whole thing.

Fortunately, the sadness seems to be more circled around my kids and just the uncertainty of my future, living on my own for the first time in my life. Doing things that keep me busy when I am alone without the kids. This is all uncharted territory. However, I have matured quite a bit. I know I will be fine. I love myself. I trust myself. That is what matters.

My EXWW still can't look at me at all. Her shame is there. I know its there. I know she feels disgusting about her choice but she is way to proud and too much of a narcissist to admit that she did something wrong and that she is a selfish person. She had written me an email when she signed the D paperwork before we filed, in it she wrote "It saddens me, even though I want this.. blah blah blah... I recognized my failures in our marriage.. blah blah"

I stopped reading right there. Because words mean jack sh*t!!! Actions speak much much louder than words.

They are all the same. They are all in on this selfishness. But its ok, life goes on. There are better people out there. Yes it [censored] that we put so much effort, life and energy into these R's, just for them to literally go nowhere, but we learned from these relationships.

We grew. We found our true selves. We found our true strength and true confidence and we will use that strength and confidence to pick ourselves up out of the dirt, dust ourselves off and push on, because we are the ones that know that ACTION is what it takes, and that is exactly what we are doing now!!

Keep your head up. We were given this path for a reason. Lets make sure we make the best of it.