I think when we were in MC I was so unbelievably hurt I was like a child really. And he would veer between being abjectly sorry and reassuring me constantly - which I got addicted to and which of course isn't sustainable - or withdrawing and blaming me for his actions and saying he wasn't spending the rest of his life apologising. I thought we were fixing things - but actually (I have uncovered this in IC) there was a wounded child in me who wanted nothing more than a man who had hurt me badly to take all the blame for it and be desparate to make it up to me. No wonder I got addicted to that, and while his behaviour is on him, my reaction isn't - and he can't have a marriage with a woman who is operating at the level of a traumatised child, which I was. I don't think I was in any position to take responsibility for the background that led to his EA, and he wasn't in any position to take responsibility without feeling like it opened himself up to servicing my exaggerated needs for assurance and comforting for the rest of his life. And then he had all this work stress, which made him terrible to live with - grumpy, snappy, critical, controlling, blaming, obsessive - and pretty aggressive when not pandered to - and I just did not have the emotional resources to detach from him while living with him.
He may very well be having his cake and eating it. But that's down to him. I don't want to live with him and I don't want to R with him until and unless he's got some capacity to make more sustained changes, and until I feel safe doing do. I see tiny moves that he is working in the right direction. I don't trust it. I also acknowledge he may just be manipulating me to make his life easier while he finishes this work task. That may well be happening, but if that is true, what I need to do right now is really no different. What I do want to do is sort out my emotional reactivity, meet my own emotional needs, and be as supportive to him as I can be without letting it turn into a covert contract or emotional manipulation. Because I do genuinely care about him, and because I have been selfish in my marriage for a long time and I don't want to be that person any more.
I am going first - but then again, I did kick him out and I am not dealing with the stress he is so I think I have more capacity than he does right now. That means it is lop sided for the time being, and I am going to feel resentful about that now and again, but I plan for this to be a stage. I won't have a relationship like this long term. It will either move us towards being safe enough to have the conversations we need to R, or get me into an emotionally detached and strong enough position to divorce him. I don't know which one of these it will be yet. And I don't think I am going to allow this to go on for months and months and months on end because I've been miserable with him for long enough already.
I applaud you for all of that. Self insight is hard won but you're getting there. And you're probably right about having the resources to sort yourself whereas he might not do. Though it does sound like he's trying. Maybe he needs to trust you as well as you trusting him? It's a two way process!
The months and months thing: you must have taken years to get to that kind of marriage, and you say yourself that you have a lot of work to do on yourself still, so why the hurry? It is sooooo hard to be patient, but it will take time to fix things I think. I think as long as things are moving in the right direction then that's positive (and I say that as someone talking about deadlines on my thread, I know, I'm really vacillating over this!)
Yes - I think he is trying, and he is not able to do more than he is doing. I've been in IC for two years, figuring out what to do about myself and the marriage, and a lot of the self-reflection stuff is more comfortable for me, and totally alien to him. And yes, he has lots of reasons not to trust me. It's very true that during the summer, when I did 'try' to do the things he'd asked for, I'd immediately expect a warm and loving response, and when that wasn't forthcoming, get really upset and sad or angry about it. We've both been dancing around this for a long time. And it's also true that he finds it incredibly difficult to receive things from anyone - it's a problem with him, not with me - that sabotaging me bringing him coffee then complaining to the MC about it was a massive eye-opener for me (more than the EA, weirdly enough) at how dysfunctional our dynamic was.
Hurry. Well. I am not sure. Partly because I have been in IC two years, have been miserable in my marriage (and I am glad that marriage is dead - even though I miss the man he was before things started to go wrong) for a long time, and because I am afraid of being in a position where I am servicing his needs while he's still too afraid or withdrawn to even consider mine. I really really fear being 'stuck' in that position. That's something I need to think about more, and talk about more in IC - and at the moment I am nowhere near making a decision.
I know him to be a man who makes excuses and evades self-reflection and making change. And he's been doing that for years. And I don't know for sure - but as others have pointed out - however real this work stress is (and it is real) it is also another excuse not to look at himself and make changes. And I can buy that for now and give him the benefit of the doubt. But if, when the work stuff is done, he is still not ready to even start doing the work (and I'd need to think about what that would look like for me) then I think I've waited long enough and accepted too many of his excuses already. Who knows - in a few months time I may not even be interested myself anymore, and while that is scary, I am entertaining it as a possibility.
I want to think about my goals for this week. So -
GAL - with friends and my children and also enjoying recharging alone. IC - booked and already thought of what I want to discuss (calming and centering myself when faced with someone's anger, or what I perceive or fear or mistake for anger) - massive area for me to grow in sending supportive texts to H once a day but not using them to 'hook' him into conversation so as not to add to pressure finish off two work projects puppy-proofing house! 1-on-1 with eldest to discuss fears and worries - practice validation without demonising H so I am supporting him but not colluding with him (I find this v. hard).
I want to think about how to approach family therapy - which is next weekend. I am not sure what I want to ask for, or whether I should just listen, or if that would put too much pressure on H, or if I should just play it by ear, or what. Need some suggestions on this, I think. My goal was to talk about the dynamic with eldest and see if there are changes I can make that will make things easier there. It isn't marriage therapy. I don't know what D's intentions or goals or desires are and I haven't asked him. I don't want to try to control the process, but I want to make sure I am communicating as well as I can and listening as carefully as I want to.
Baby steps would be great. And there have been baby steps - him agreeing to come to therapy for the children is a big deal. Him apologising for the way he spoke to me when he was angry about me booking the days away was a massive deal. Asking for supportive text messages was a change too. He sent a very affectionate goodnight message last night using a pet-name he hasn't used for me in years, and that was a big deal to me too. All of that is a start. I want to balance appreciating the good things, while also accepting that as it stands, it isn't enough to build a new marriage on.
I guess what I would like to see going forward was him showing a willingness to repair things with Eldest. The family therapy might be part of that, and I need to think carefully about how to approach my own side in things.
I would also like to see him initiating contact with me in some way. Goodnight texts are a good start. He's been asking more about my day and my work in the last couple of weeks. I suspect these things are scary to him because he's worried about opening a torrent of crying and venting from me - which is understandable - so I have work to do there also.
I have been working on showing gratitude and making sure to thank him for special efforts he makes - like picking things up for the kids or helping me with some house stuff while he around this weekend while I was away at work. A baby step from him would me for me to see him returning some of that gratitude or noticing some of my own changes. He did say he was proud of me for the work I was doing in therapy (it involves me talking about some painful childhood events I prefer not to go into) and that meant a lot.
I think at the moment though, it would be best for me to concentrate on the changes I want to make for myself around emotional reactivity around anger. He's stressed and anxious and I need to learn to under-react to that for my own good and for ease of co-parenting, aside from whatever happens or doesn't happen in the MR. I am going to take Dilly's advice from above and make a list of things to do that I can keep handy and look at when I get flooded. I think there's a chance he might use the first family therapy session to unload a bit - he was like that in MC as he felt safe to be as brutal as he wanted to be, I guess - and I want to be able to keep a hold of myself and listen to him without getting frantic or upset at his anger, and that is going to be a really big 180 for me.
I like your list of goals for the week. When are you getting your puppy?
The list of thing to do when you feel anxious I actually got from a podcast, 2 therapists were both discussing how they each have lists of 10-15 things to do when they want to calm down. I'm considering doing my own version actually.
I really resonate with the being married to someone who evades self-reflection and change, I felt that my dh was like that and when he left my biggest fear was that this was another way of evasion. But from what I can see so far it hasn't been. I know you're in a different position because you asked your husband to leave. But then I think about how hard change is, and I think that actually I was fairly resistant to change too because I would complain and blame dh but not want to change myself. I feel like this separation has been painful enough that I will change permanently, and hopefully dh will too. I hope that your husband is having a similar revelation, it sounds like there are good signs so far.
Re the family therapy: could you talk to eldest about it? It sounds like you need to stay out of things maybe, because you getting in the middle and wanting to fix them both has been part of the problem by the sound of it. But thinking in advance of how to calm down if you get flooded would be good.
Puppy comes at the end of the month. This is a bit of a sticking point between H and me, actually. Kids have wanted one for a long time, and my work pattern means I have a good amount of time off and work at home time between now and the rest of the year - which meant dealing with a puppy would be possible. H was never super keen, but agreed that we could get one after he'd finished his big work thing. But when he left, the breeder said there was one available earlier, so I said we'd take it, and now he sees the dog as evidence of how little his need are catered to. He will tolerate the youngest being v excited about it in fairly good spirit, but if there's ever any slightest bit of conflict between us, he will bring it up as evidence that what he wants doesn't matter to anyone. I don't point out that the timing of it was done entirely around what he wanted, with his agreement, until he didn't live here any more, and as he doesn't live here it doesn't affect him.
Will work on that list this afternoon - I am feeling good today but these things can change pretty quickly. I am going to practice the 4-8-5 breathing in case it comes in handy for me during the therapy session.
I think my role in that session should just be to listen. But she gave us some homework and asked us each to come and ask for one thing we wanted to change about the situation (not that we wanted to change about ourselves, but that we wanted to change in the dynamic - if I understood her right). I know Eldest has been thinking about it a lot. I think I might say I want H and Eldest to stop coming to me and asking me to change the other's behaviour. That I want to listen and be a support but I can't control what either of them does.
Your husband might change his mind when he actually meets the dog and he can see how your kids love it. Most people come round eventually. Us not having a dog has always been a huge complaint of dh's, he would really love a dog but I've refused because he was only home an hour or so in the evenings and I would have ended up with all the work and I've never been keen on the idea.
I need to work on my own list, clearly...
That's good that eldest has been thinking about it, maybe you can take something of a back seat in this situation and let him and H drive most of it.
