With love

[Dawn70]

Love the thread title, focus! I think that is a great way to look at things and to move forward. I know what you mean about posting stuff on FB too. I shied away from that all along throughout my divorce but Lord have mercy were there times that I so desperately wanted to put stuff. In fact, now that I'm in a new relationship, I had even hesitated posting pics and other things about Sparky until I just decided it is MY facebook page and I'll post what I want when I want. My XH has been married for 2 years now so he shouldn't give a rat's behind if I'm seeing someone and happy.

To speak to your very last comment in your post above, it IS time for you to start to feel that same indignant feeling you felt on your friend's behalf for yourself. You are strong, vibrant, have so much to offer, so don't let someone else's opinion of you weigh you down. You just don't have time for that! I just read this morning (and have heard a million times over) someone else's opinion of you is none of your business. I like that and I try VERY hard to hold on to it.

Sounds to be like you are doing well and I'm thrilled for you. Keep on keeping on with love!

[kml]

It's always easy to feel indignant on someone else's behalf for me. Well, guess what? Time for me to tap into some of that feeling for myself.

Exactly!!!!

And I do think we women begin to come into our power at this age, especially once we let go of worrying about what anyone else thinks of us!

[focus22]

Love the thread title, focus! I think that is a great way to look at things and to move forward.

Thank you so much Dawn! It feels like love (towards oneself first and foremost, and then extending to the outside world) is the answer.

I know what you mean about posting stuff on FB too. I shied away from that all along throughout my divorce but Lord have mercy were there times that I so desperately wanted to put stuff. In fact, now that I'm in a new relationship, I had even hesitated posting pics and other things about Sparky until I just decided it is MY facebook page and I'll post what I want when I want.

I'm glad it wasn't just me that struggled with this.

It was sort of mixed up with posting/not posting for all sorts of reasons with me as well. I've tried to make sure that I was posting only from a place of positivity: love, gratitude, joy...

Although, looking at it now, I did hold back from posting through fear, anger and shame too. Shame when I was going out with the heavy drinker for that short spell. I remember the first time I met him thinking 'is this is? Is this what men my age are like?'. He saw me checking him out, and thought it was approvingly. It wasn't. I was actually feeling really disappointed and trying to muster up some enthusiasm.

He was so into me, and we had the subject that we had originally studied in common. So I thought that was something, that it was enough. Well, surprise surprise...it wasn't. In the short time we went out, it became obvious that he was very angry about I have no idea what, and was extremely controlling. I started to really feel through and through that I deserved much, much better. I'm pretty sure that had I stayed, I would have ended up in a very abusive relationship, definitely emotionally and financially, and I'm pretty sure physically as well.

Some instinct must have told me. He never came round to my house and I never, ever posted about him or us on FB. He did introduce me to his mum and stepfather really early on, and I had then felt under pressure to introduce him to my mum. I met some of his friends and he met one of my closest friends on a night out. She didn't like him at all, she later told me. She found him egotistical and sexist. He came as my plus one to the wedding of one of my other closest friends. I was worried about him getting into some sort of a 'discussion' with one of the other guests over dinner (fuelled by alcohol) and being really aggressive with it - I had seen this happen a number of times previously with him. So my friend sat him at the very end of one of the tables, opposite one of the most boring people I've ever met in my entire life. She later told me that he had pinched some of the groom's whisky on his way out. I was unspeakably angry at this. Unspeakably angry, and would barely muster some level of politeness towards him if I came across him now.

A few months after I left him, I started to really feel in the pit of my stomach how much a good catch I was for someone, and to really believe it too. I guess the roots of that started early in that whole relationship with that guy. They just needed time to grow and become stronger.

I had a feeling that he liked to prey on women that were in quite a vulnerable position. His first wife had some very serious mental health issues that started a few months after they were married. He was basically looking after her the whole time. They were married something like 15 years and she committed suicide.

He since went out with a number of women who all seemed in quite a vulnerable position (I would have included myself in that). He was never really on his own for any length of time in the seven or so years that had passed since his wife and committed suicide (for more than a couple of weeks, for sure). That seemed very weird in my books. Anyway, a very short time after I left, he started going out with a woman he had been out with twice previously and left twice before for other women. I mean, would you even ever put yourself in that position?!

Anyway, they're married now. And she sometimes posts stuff on her FB page which makes me think they're those roundabout passive aggressive comments that are aimed at me. Obviously I just ignore them. Just after I left him she posted something on FB about how someone can look really pretty and wrapped up to seem all lovely and wonderful, but they're actually hollow and empty inside. I'm totally sure that was aimed at me. Anyway, that was a good few years ago now.

To speak to your very last comment in your post above, it IS time for you to start to feel that same indignant feeling you felt on your friend's behalf for yourself. You are strong, vibrant, have so much to offer, so don't let someone else's opinion of you weigh you down. You just don't have time for that! I just read this morning (and have heard a million times over) someone else's opinion of you is none of your business. I like that and I try VERY hard to hold on to it.

Sounds to be like you are doing well and I'm thrilled for you. Keep on keeping on with love!

Thank you.

I guess it's taken me a long, long time to start feeling these things. I think it's probably a mixture of having felt low about myself, and also that I've got a very 'live and let live' type of attitude to life.

Thank you for replying Dawn, you have given me lots to think about, and lots of threads to connect.

[Dawn70]

Thank you so much Dawn! It feels like love (towards oneself first and foremost, and then extending to the outside world) is the answer.

I couldn't agree more. I know it sounds cliché and cheesy, but all those adages about you have to love yourself first before you can love someone else are absolutely true. You can't find happiness and love with someone else if you don't inwardly feel happiness and love with yourself, by yourself, in yourself. At least, that is my opinion. Others may disagree and that is fine. I just know that the people I know who are happiest in life and in love are those that do not rely on others for their source of happiness.

I'm glad it wasn't just me that struggled with this.

It was sort of mixed up with posting/not posting for all sorts of reasons with me as well. I've tried to make sure that I was posting only from a place of positivity: love, gratitude, joy...

Oh honey, I struggled with all sorts of stuff mightily in the beginning. I still occasionally struggle with some things, as I posted just this morning about yesterday being my wedding anniversary (if I were still married). I think of myself as a constant work in progress and honestly, there are occasionally steps backwards, but I think that is just part of life. I still struggle occasionally with should I post something on facebook or should I say something to the girls or whatever, but I ultimately have to do what is right FOR ME and quit worrying about how it will affect everyone else.

Thank you.

I guess it's taken me a long, long time to start feeling these things. I think it's probably a mixture of having felt low about myself, and also that I've got a very 'live and let live' type of attitude to life.

Thank you for replying Dawn, you have given me lots to think about, and lots of threads to connect.

I think we all get to things in our own time, at our own pace. I know I say this all the time on people's threads, but while there may be a loose timeline where the "steps" of divorce and recovery are concerned, I think we all hit those steps at our own pace. Some quicker than others. Like you, I'm a very "live and let live" kind of person, but I struggled with that where my XH was concerned at first because I wasn't seeing any of the hurt in him that he'd caused in me and I didn't like that one bit. It just seemed to me that he trashed our marriage and skipped right on into another one, but I know the reality is likely somewhat different than my skewed perspective. I doubt that they have a perfect marriage, but you know what, I am finally at the point where I can say that, just as a caring human being, I hope that they are happy. Ultimately, their happiness with each other has nothing to do with my happiness. From an outside perspective, you seem to be doing pretty well. You have a lot going for you and that is a good thing. Hang in there!

[focus22]

It's always easy to feel indignant on someone else's behalf for me. Well, guess what? Time for me to tap into some of that feeling for myself.

Exactly!!!!

And I do think we women begin to come into our power at this age, especially once we let go of worrying about what anyone else thinks of us!

When I look back, the things that I've enjoyed the most in my life, been most proud of, and felt like I have given it my all in the best possible way, have been when I've cared the least about what other people might have thought.

I'm trying to tap into that feeling more now.

In the past, I think I felt it when I was doing particular things. But my main state of being was of being overly concerned with what other people thought, not offending people, being 'nice'.

I'm much more interested in exploring my own thing these days. I'm certainly aware of ruffling other people's feathers occasionally. And funnily enough, thinking about it, it's mostly from other women I get that vibe. The reaction I'm most aware of now is that people sometimes think of me as stubborn - I've actually had this comment from other women, and not in a complimentary way.

I would agree with them. But also add (not to them, obviously) that I wouldn't have gotten to where I am now in my life, with the things that have happened to me throughout my life, without being stubborn. It's saved me more than once, that steely kernel that's inside me.

I've come to really enjoy being with people who are themselves too. Even if it means that we don't really get on. I've come to appreciate the differences between us and really enjoy them. Previously I would have tried to smooth over the differences and try and somehow 'make things easier'. I don't feel that now. I don't even feel the need to explore the differences, I can feel very content with just letting them be there between us.

Who would have thought that I could ever have travelled so far in three years?

[focus22]

I'm starting to feel at a safe enough distance now to look more into the alcoholic thing. Or more accurately, as I understand it now, the 'high functioning alcoholic' thing.

Jeez, some of the patterns of behaviour I've read about are things I could have written.

I've been reading a little about denial too. I guess it's no wonder XH would just stonewall me whenever I brought up his alcohol consumption. There was no way he could ever have begun to admit to me (or even just himself) how much there was something wrong with the amount he drank, the way he drank, or the effect it had.

I find it tiring reading about it though, very draining. I can only read a little at a time.

[JujuB]

I havr been going through the same focus. For a while, i obsessed over the blue light forums. I though i might gain some insight about ex, by readings postings from addicts.

My ex drank in secret. When i first met him, he did not like to drink at all. Just smoked weed recreationally. When i started seeing a glass with a remnant of liquor in it, i thought it odd but figured he started drinking a night cap. That didnt seem uncommon. He would stay awake late at night and then he would not be able to wake up in the morning. Alarms would be blaring. That wasnt a red flag for me because his mom would tell me he was like that as a teenager. That he was a night owl. I used to think he stayed awake playing video games. Then he told me he needed to get work done at night because it was easier since he was dealing with countries in different time zones. I thought he was a deep sleeper. Hell, i did not even know that was a sign of drinking. I do not drink much at all. I dont really ow much about drug culture.

After he left, i saw cc statements that dated back years. When i was pregnant (miscarried). I remember one when we were away for the weekend. I remember he told me he was taking the car to ride up and see the top of the mountain while i put our son to sleep. He was never sentimental like that, which is why i remember that. The credit card statement showed he was purchasing from a liquor store.

My ex was and is high functioning. But more secretive then yours. 200 to 300 dollars a month on his credit card from 3 different liqour stores. Jack daniels. (This isbkust alcohol. Does not explain the 700 dollar a week habit though)


I find i tell this over and over and over. I apologize if you read it already. Its like i need to replay it in my mind. Because if i dont, i would never believe he coyld be an addict.

Thats the harder part about the secret high functioning addict. Its not actually acknowledged yet. They are successful and doing ok. So does that mean im crazy or the dysfunctiobal one ? Addicts gaslight and thats the hard part.

[focus22]

He would stay awake late at night and then he would not be able to wake up in the morning. Alarms would be blaring. That wasnt a red flag for me because his mom would tell me he was like that as a teenager. That he was a night owl...I thought he was a deep sleeper. Hell, i did not even know that was a sign of drinking. I do not drink much at all.

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I read this.

I could have written the exact same thing, seriously.

XH used to stay awake at night, sitting on the sofa in the living room watching the telly, or listening to music on his headphones (and drinking). At some point he would have fallen asleep and still be asleep there when I got up the next morning, sometimes about 7.30 or 8.00, a lot of the time with his headphones still on and music blaring from them.

Nothing would wake him up. Initially I would be saying his name trying to get him to wake up, then I'd be saying it louder, eventually I'd be shouting at him and shaking him. Nothing. He wouldn't even be stirring. I thought he was just a deep sleeper.

I remember one time, not long after we were M, we had got a chunk of money from a relative of mine as a W present, and had bought a new sofa (which was ivory).

XH had done his usual and fallen asleep watching the TV or listening to music. He had had a *very* large glass of red wine in his hand and it had split all over the sofa. It was the first thing that I saw when I got up and went through to find him. I went nuts. He hardly woke up.

I was so happy to buy myself a new sofa this summer. And so happy to get rid of the old one.

No wonder I felt so lonely. My XH hardly ever came to bed with me, and certainly not at the same time as me. I used to ask him to come to bed at the same time as me, when I was still awake (you know about 10.30pm) even just only occasionally, like once or twice a week. I told him I thought it would be nice just to sit in bed together and talk, or read side by side, or fall asleep in bed together. It was like he never listened to me and just carried on as usual.

The only exception to this was when we went to visit my family abroad, for two weeks of the year, over the summer. We'd stay with my gran in her tiny flat, and she'd give us her room - she would insist that we have her room. She'd sleep on the sofa bed in the living room as she liked to get up super early in the morning, a lot of the time around 5.00am (she was one of those tiny, very sprightly old ladies, with loads of energy). It also meant that she'd fall asleep early in the evenings, so we'd go to bed early. XH wouldn't drink as much. In fact, he'd hardly drink at all. It would basically be two weeks a year of some sort of normality, which would, of course stop abruptly as soon as we got home again.

I'd say 90% of the time we were M, I went to bed alone. If he wasn't on the sofa, drinking late into the night, he'd be out. And it wasn't an out for a couple of drinks and back at midnight kind of out. It was an out all night and then either come home about 5.00 or 6.00am, or go to someone's house to drink some more and crash out sort of out.

I'd ask him just to text me after the pubs shut to let me know where he was going. Not to keep tabs on him, but just so I didn't worry. I had started getting insomnia through an unrelated to his drinking stress condition that I was suffering from, so I'd wake up after I had been asleep for 4 hours. Sometimes there would be a text, a lot of the time not. I'd maybe try and call him (with no answer, of course). There was no way I was getting back to sleep at that point.

And of course, that fed into my insomnia. In the end, I spent seven years of my life functioning on four hours sleep a night (sometimes less).

For the last three years of our M, XH was working away - like Australia, the States, South America kind of away as opposed to a couple of hours drive away. He'd be back for a couple of months and then away again for another big chunk of the year. I would imagine his drinking/partying (possibly drug taking) went into overdrive at that point. That's when him having EAs progressed to him having PAs.

After I got over the shock of XH leaving three years ago, my insomnia improved incredibly. Everything seemed much more peaceful and calmer. I think I had harbouring a lot of tension, frustration and anger from years of trying to get through to him about his behaviour and make him change. And that had affected my sleep. I now realise how totally futile that was, trying to get through to him, or trying to get him to change, but I still am amazed at how still and quiet my house is, and I love it.

And I can't believe how lovely it is going to bed at the same time as my wonderful man. We chat, read to each other, hold hands, fall asleep together (and wake up together). They seem such simple things, that most people wouldn't even think twice about because that's just the way life is. But to me they seem like the most beautiful treasures and it feels like my heart is bursting with happiness because that is a part of my life.

[focus22]

Just had a quick question.

The question in itself doesn't matter now any more, because of the way things are now, but I'd still be interested in hearing your thoughts and ideas.

If having children was so important to my XH (based on him having a child with OW less than a year after he left), why did he never, ever bring up the subject with me?

I'm not hurt, or angry, or have any strong feelings about it either way. I'm just confused. It doesn't make sense to me. If something is *that* important to you, why not mention it, or bring it up?

[AndrewP]

Since I have very little insight into my ex-wife's life I can't answer directly.

But from reading other stories, our lost lambs often re-invent themselves in odd ways. Also, I understand that it is "very" common for new relationships, especially those that don't have a strong foundation to have a baby to bind them together. Whether that actually works or not is a subject for debate.

I've read a bunch of stories for example where a formerly frigid partner becomes a nymphomaniac. My ex trod that path at least for a while.

Can they, and do they fundamentally change who they are? Personally I doubt it. What does change though is how we see them from the perspective of distance and time. Also, many of our former partners have worn masks of a sort to be attractive to others.

Is the doting father the real him? You'll never know. And at this point, it doesn't matter.

Enjoy your new life and try to only look forward. I know it's hard.