The bomb woke me up, but she won't talk

[lusa]

Thank you, you nailed it, it feels wrong because I want to be with her so much. I'm going to be less available and give it a go this week, and see what happens.

[SteveLW]

Thanks Steve, I am starting to see the decision to move out might have been the wrong one, and I am sure I haven't been man enough or stood up for myself enough in this situation. I have just bought "No More Mr Nice Guy" which might help me finally man up.

I will remember your advice to stop fixating on the R discussion, it makes a lot of sense to instead, prepare for when the discussion finally happens.

I am finally getting that detachment is key, and praying I'll get better at it sooner rather than later.

Me 46, W 46
D 10, S 13
M 14 years
T 17 years
Bomb 01/18
Moved out (at her request) 01/18
EA Discovered: 02/18

Again you seem to be doing a lot of good things now. Keep it up.

We humans are interesting creatures. We like to talk about what is top of mind. So when we get into the stress of MR problems, that weigh on our mind all of the time, we find a need to want to talk about it.

You said she doesn't want to discuss it, which implies that you are occasionally testing the waters and trying to initiate. One of the first rules of DBing is not to initiate R talks. It is hard because of the human dynamic I mentioned above, but it is so important to avoid that behavior. WAWs are very sensitive to pursuit and pressure. Initiating R talks are pursuit and pressure.

So yes, be prepared because eventually it will come up. And be prepared, it usually comes up as a mini-BD #2. "You know I'm done because I already told you that." Remember my favorite sandi rule: believe nothing she says and only half of what she does. WAWs are notorious for insisting that their previous proclamation is still the law of the land, even when you can see her having doubts and second thoughts through her actions.

My W would alternate between talking about the future with me, and then reminding me that she wanted out. To say that she was conflicted was an understatement. Even worse, her words were conflicting with other words, but definitely in conflict with her actions.

You probably aren't aware of my sitch, but my wife's plan was to get a job, get an apartment and to get a D. And for the first few weeks she started that. She was in contact with rental agents helping her find an apartment. She was updating her resume and skimming job openings. She has a 4 year degree and though she has been out of the job market for a long time, she would have no problem finding a job that would allow her to support herself. She was researching the divorce process and even reading about the effects that it would have on our D.

But about month after BD those activities ceased. She never finished her resume. She quit responding to job and apartment openings. She didn't want to discuss D logistics (especially after I contacted a lawyer and told her that her plan of a quickie D was unrealistic. When the topic of her plan would come up, she'd still talk about wanting to get a job, an apartment and a D, but there was no action being taken above that.

So you started instituting changes. You gave her space (maybe too much but that is water under the bridge). This has caused her to start questioning her pronouncements on BD. My wife had a last couple of rebellious moments against the MR about 2 months in, before all of her words and actions changed to being back into the MR.

Understand, even now if I push her too hard on things, she starts to retreat. This is the whole pursuit and pressure dynamic. I save all of our R discussions to happen during MC, where she feels safe to speak openly.

So give her time, eventually she will want to address where things are. In the meantime, view limbo as the gift of time to show her the new you.

[lusa]

YIt is hard because of the human dynamic I mentioned above, but it is so important to avoid that behavior. WAWs are very sensitive to pursuit and pressure. Initiating R talks are pursuit and pressure.

BD was early January and for pretty much the next 2 months i broke the worse Dbing rules regularly.
On March the 6th our 14th wedding anniversary I started Dbing. I am proud to say I haven't tested the waters trying to initiate MR discussions at all. I know she doesn't want to discuss it by her other words, actions and all the answers she gave me when I was pressuring. Also she has said things like, when we go away for a week I want no MR discussion while I'm trapped abroad with you and that's still a month away. It's slowly sinking in how long this could take.

I might not have tried to initiate MR talks in the last 10 weeks but I am guilty of pursuing and pressure in all sorts of other ways. My Mr Nice Guy behaviour, helping round the house, doing things for her with expectations she'll be pleased, requesting all 4 of us have family days out.

I am now well into the process of stopping this behaviour, the stuff i still do regularly isn't pressuring and is done with no expectations. Family time is requested by her, as is every interaction. For example as I was leaving the family home (earlier than necessary) after eating with them, she asked if I will pick D10 up from tennis after work on Thu and bring her home, so W can make tea for us all.

The Pursuer Distance theory seems to have really helped with initiating contact and requesting meets. The thing I haven't been doing is making myself unavailable (when I'm really free) for some requests, I am trying to implement this immediately but its hard to overcome the counter-intuitiveness.

So yes, be prepared because eventually it will come up. And be prepared, it usually comes up as a mini-BD #2. "You know I'm done because I already told you that." Remember my favorite sandi rule: believe nothing she says and only half of what she does. WAWs are notorious for insisting that their previous proclamation is still the law of the land, even when you can see her having doubts and second thoughts through her actions.

If she initiates MR talk after all this time and drops mini-BD #2. "You know I'm done because I already told you that." - I'll be devestated but hopefully remember Sandi's fab rule. It will be like not moving away with a rabid dog breathing in my face though. I presume I'll just have to validate without agreeing?

So you started instituting changes. You gave her space (maybe too much but that is water under the bridge). This has caused her to start questioning her pronouncements on BD. My wife had a last couple of rebellious moments against the MR about 2 months in, before all of her words and actions changed to being back into the MR.

Understand, even now if I push her too hard on things, she starts to retreat. This is the whole pursuit and pressure dynamic. I save all of our R discussions to happen during MC, where she feels safe to speak openly.

Thanks for informing me of your sitch, I'm impressed and a bit jealous you got her committed to your MR with her words and actions in only 2 months. I was still breaking the rules 2 months in.
Its interesting that 3 months after that pressure still makes her retreat and MR talk is saved for MC.

So give her time, eventually she will want to address where things are. In the meantime, view limbo as the gift of time to show her the new you.

As you know I've felt stuck in limbo for what feels like a lifetime now, but this gem you have giving me has completely 180'd my thinking on this " In the meantime, view limbo as the gift of time to show her the new you."

Thank you so much for that.

[SteveLW]

You're welcome, but I stole that from another poster here. I like you hated limbo and felt like I needed to move past it until someone told me that. It is so true, and is a very healthy way of viewing it.

[joejoe1]

Lusa,

I did in house detachment. I started with Txhubby philosophy, but that was too hardcore for my sitch. I was a terrible husband so Txhubby way didn't work. I just came off looking like an ahole to my W.

I later took on AS philosophy and started detaching with love and my W started to notice my changes. I was hard as hell at first but I kept trying different things to see what worked. I also had Sandi and 25 giving great advice and 2x4s.

I posted often and provided as much detail about every encounter I had with my W.

Each sitch is different and only you will know what is working.

This will be the hardest journey of your life, but detaching with love is what turned my W heart back around.

[lusa]

JJ

Thank you so much for your input.
I have gone back and read as much of your sitch as my time has allowed so far, I am up to 10/27/17 where your W has finally started opening up to you. Your sitch has been so insightful to me, reading your questions on detachment etc and the answers from the vets has been invaluable.

As you are aware I am just starting to detach and Sandi's words on what to stop doing around the house with a WW really match my situation.I will continue reading your sitch for inspiration but wanted to post what I plan to do tonight hoping for some affirmation or advice.I am scheduled to pickup d10 from Tennis and bring her home where my W will prepare dinner for us all.

On Tuesday I was at the family home and a few things came up, which in hindsight I wasn't happy with my response to, as now I see my balls are in my W's purse and I need to take them back.

The topic of maintaining the garden came up and W asked if I would do it or if she should get a gardner, when I said I would do it, she said that's fine but she doesn't want be bringing up the work i've done if she makes a decision that teh MR is permanantly over. After consideration and in the name of detaching, I am going to tell her it's fine for her to get a gardener and doing this work at the house is just another thing I miss that I am letting go of.

I asked if I should take the heavy trash bins to the front of the house and she replied "I don't mind", so I didn't do it then she reitarated she didn't mind in a way I was expected to take it as yes please. In the end she said yes please and I did it.

I am going to tell her that i won't offer to do any of these things anymore, and that if she wants me to do something she can ask nicely and I'll then consider it.

Also S13 is booked to stay at my place on Saturday evening, so when she asks me about these arrangements I'm just going to say have him ready in the evening and I'll come and pick him up rather than can I come round and do something with you all in the day?, which is the sort of thing I used to say.

I feel that this is a much better, Alpha, detaching attitude, does it sound better to you?

[joejoe1]

Lusa,

Remember you are detaching with love. You aren't being spiteful or mean. I agree with you about not doing the gardening. I also agree she should ask you nicely, but remember you weren't a good husband and you coming off as a a$$ won't help.

It's a delicate balance of actions and words from now on. You arent your W errand boy, so let her know that in a lovingly way. "I understand you want me to work on the garden, but I'm not comfortable being your errand boy, I'm your husband". Leave it at that.

When it comes coparenting the children, you get more bees with honey. In other words, be a man, but don't be mean. Keep your tones neutral. "Hey, W I'm coming to get S13 at this time". Leave out the so have him ready part, that will make her defensive because your were demanding. And demanding is not what you are trying to achieve respect is what you are after.

Start respecting yourself and loving yourself and the rest will start to fall in place. A person that love and respect themselves don't allow another to disrespect them.

[lusa]

Thank you for that sound advice.
I am back from the family home now, I realise she is in this independent mode where she really wants to be able to do all the tasks I did before, for herself. When things need doing that she hasn't done before like setting up or emptying the pool we have, she'll ask me what to do, I'll explain and then she'll do it herself. I'm not going to read too much into this now, but I'll just take on-board that she doesn't want me to do things for her around the house ATM. I resisted bringing in the trash bins from the front of the house, like I've been doing recently and tidying the kitchen and just let her do it all herself whilst I played with the kids.

I did tell her it was fine if she gets a gardener and I am going to stop doing these type of things for her. I mentioned the fact she replied disrespectfully to me when I offered the other day and that if she wants me to do something she'll need to ask me nicely. She balked at that and repeated "ask you nicely?". I wasn't mean or cold and don't think I have been for the last 10 weeks of Dbing. She did want to end that conversation then though.

I'm taking on board what you say about detaching with love and not being demanding. I want her respect and it makes perfect sense that I won't need to demand it if I am respecting and loving myself properly because then I will simply not accept her disrespect.

Something else has been on my mind, one of the few times she has acknowledged my changes, she said the last few months have been so much better regarding my relationship with the kids. She then said she thought it was down my not having the stress of living with her. I resisted the urge to say these last 2 months have been the most stressful time of my life.

It can't be right that successfully implementing consistent changes can lead a WAW I am separated from to believe it is because she has reduced my stress by preventing me from living with her, can it?

[Cadet]

Just keep POSTING (on this thread) and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.

[lusa]

Thanks for your advice Cadet, I will keep posting. I've been reading threads about LBS's detaching all day and now I feel quite angry at my W for the first time.

I think the anger is coming out as my fear is finally subsiding. She emotionally detached a long time ago and didn't tell me anything, she talked to everyone else but me then dropped the DB, then she proceeded to have an EA and was lost in limerence while I was going through hell. Now she has the cheek to say things to me like "don't get your hopes up"
I think I'm finally done with her now, regardless of the consequences.