I did okay today, but when he left for work (he works nights), I got all needy and started feeling badly. He usually gives me a hug before he leaves because I sort of prompt him for it. But he didn't, and I didn't prompt. So no hug. I want to reach out and connect, but know that's the wrong thing to do. So hard. At least I have Zumba in a few minutes, which always gets a big happy endorphin release.
I wonder about this too, 44tries. I think -- at least, my take on it -- that I need to do it for myself first. I need to be in the best place possible to get through this ridiculously challenging time. For me, this means surrounding myself with friends, exercising, losing weight, eating better, meditation. I am even trying visits to a Buddhist center for their philosophy since it resonates with me. I need this to get through the days. I need this to be able to increase my chances to have a level head.
I need to exercise to get rid of the excess energy and anxiety that comes from the pain of the situation.
I need to lose weight so I don't lose confidence in myself as an attractive and desirable person.
I need to meditate to better be able to understand and regulate my emotions.
I need to surround myself with friends for joy and company.
I need to cook so I eat better and save money since this separation is going to put me in financial stress.
I need to clean because it brings me peace to come home to a clean room.
I need to journal so I can understand and engage with my emotions and sort through them.
If it gets him back to me? Then it's icing on the cake. But these are the things that will help me learn to detach; help me be capable of following the rules; help me not feel the need to pursue. If I believe in myself, I can better tolerate whatever is to come.
My question for you Cadet, in regards to the piece I quoted, is "making you into a person that only a fool would leave" and "not to try to attract him back" seem like conflicting statements. You are making yourself attractive so no one would leave, including him. I get the idea that the change is for yourself and not the other person, but at the end of the day how do you separate the fact that all this is brought on during an effort to win them back?
Well I understand how you could be confused, change, especially 180's are hard.
Let me also say that your changes must be real because if they are not real they will not stick and they also will be tested to see if they are real.
As far as your effort to win them back, let me just say that you are the most motivated at this time so DB'ing is counter intuitive. What you think you should do is likely the exact opposite of what you do.
Read the pursuit and distance thread as that will possibly help you to understand some of this.
How would your H describe the MR, if he were telling us about it? What would he tell us about living with you?
Why has he lost attraction for you?
Why was he working on the MR alone for a year and a half?
I hope you will be painfully honest.
The 37 rules were written as bullet points. If I can help you with certain ones, let me know and I'll try to explain them more.
You are reacting mostly out of fear. Your actions are not attractive to him. Surely, knowing you are pushing him out of the door will help you resist pressuring him to stay with a desperate wife. ((hugs))
I'm glad you found this board. The more you can tell us, the better we can see the bigger picture. Get ready for a lot of hard work.
P.S. Would weight gain happen to be one of the issues for his lack of attraction?
Hmm. This is hard.
As I said, I've done all the wrong things over the last few months. He'd describe the relationship as:
In a place where we both take each other for granted. Supportive of one another in terms of our physical life (career, hobbies, friends, etc.) but not emotional. We want the best for each other. He is not attracted to me, and we are having issues with intimacy. He says I haven't done anything big to push him away, but for years, the little things have built. He has "dealt with it" by doing what he thinks is "being a good husband" by keeping his mouth shut about things instead of dealing with his emotions, risking conflict, and expressing how he feels.
Examples of the small things that have built up: not cooking, not cleaning, gaining weight, spending too much time on the couch, not "trying." He admits that most of these (other than the weight issue) are both of us, not just me. We've both fallen into the habit of giving up if the other isn't pulling their weight instead of discussing things.
I asked him how much of this was about my weight, and he said it wasn't. I was overweight when we met, and at that time, he still found me beautiful. If it wasn't for built up resentment, he says he wouldn't care. In the last six years, I've gained 30 lbs; lost 40; gained all 40 back...
He loves me. He says he wants to be with me but doesn't want to be in a (romantic) loveless marriage. We are good partners in many ways, just not good lovers. The impetus for this was when my younger sister got pregnant. When we got married, we both wanted kids. Two years in, he said he didn't want kids. I thought it made sense because we weren't super financially stable. But now, he says that from the beginning, he has always wanted to have kids, but didn't think our marriage would last if we had kids. Instead of telling me that, he just said he didn't want kids. Now, he doesn't see a future with us together or have that burning desire to have kids with me (even though he says I would be a good mother).
He was working on the MR alone for a year and a half because he was conflict-averse. See, he hates it when I cry. Hates it. He never cries (in eight years, I have never seen him cry once), and no matter how much I tell him I don't cry to be manipulative, I don't cry to make him feel badly... I just... cry. Because it's my body reacting to stress or other emotions. If I could flip a switch and not cry around him, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But it still hits him hard when I cry. So he is conflict averse because he doesn't want to make me cry. He never told me how he felt about these things. Maybe he brought some up as minor annoyances. But never "this makes me unhappy. I am building resentment. We need to work not this."
He did tell me about weight things, and I went to an eating disorder clinic and saw them for about a year. It helped with some of my habits, but not my weight. I think that frustrated him. If I was getting help, why wasn't I losing weight? At one point, my doctor said that I'm not so overweight that it's a big deal and maybe I should stop trying so hard because the health risks associated with that might be worse than the health risks of being somewhat overweight. I think, in hindsight, that might have been part of the issue. He saw me as getting help, then "giving up" (even though I still wanted to lose weight... that a doctor would say that to me scared him, I think).
That being said, he really didn't support me in the way I needed to be supported for weight loss, because he didn't understand we are different. He's happy to support me in ways that work for him. But even when I told him that it'd be great if he wanted to do Couch to 5k with me a few years back, he said no because "you don't need that. Just go and run. It's all in your head-- you should be able to just run until you can't run anymore and not follow some program." When I asked him to keep some of the trigger junk food in the car, or out of sight on a top shelf? He never did it. I told him that even seeing it as I walk by can be problematic for me and that it is important for me to control my environment. Nope. Nothing. In his mind, I should have the self-discipline to just walk by. He didn't understand it, so he didn't support it.
I know this is coming across as defensive. Ugh. I hate that. This is just a hard process. I'm not blaming anyone but myself for my personal issues.
Anyway, I've lost somewhere around 12-14 lbs in the last two months, which I am delighted with.
Another dynamic is culture. He's from a fairly male-dominant culture. His mom worked full-time (as have I for the entirety of our relationship) AND took care of everything in the house. None of the men in his family help around the house. Right now, most of his friends are from his country and are married to people from there as well. I think there is some jealousy of how much their wives do compared to my expectations that household duties are shared. Maybe not always equally, but shared.
We also just had a huge shift in our marriage. From the beginning, I have been the primary breadwinner for the most part. I've worked career-track jobs; he has worked foodservice and ridesharing until recently. I mostly supported him through his associate's degree in a tech field; I also went back and got my masters' degree while working full-time. He kicked tail at his first internship and they offered him a job last September after 8 months experience in the field and a 2-year degree that had the minimum requirements of five years experience and a 4-year degree. Because he is that awesome. It was a lot of stress, but he is doing well at it.
So -- we have gone to him making essentially an identical salary to me after that never having been the case before. I was delighted -- we were talking about a house closer to work, kids... I thought it was great we could finally breathe. Travel. Save for retirement.
He has felt emasculated in a few ways, I think. A part of him probably hated that I supported us more financially than him. And one of the other "little things that grew and festered" had to do with that too. When he first came to the U.S., I had to do a lot for him (explain menus, make appointments, take charge with internet providers, cell phone providers, help him with the DMV, etc.). Even now, he asks me to do things like make his doctors appointments... or if we are in a restaurant, if we are sharing things, he asks me to order for us both. Now, he says that for a long time, he has felt annoyed at how much I "take charge" when we go to a store or restaurant. It is incredibly frustrating to hear, because I am an introvert! It's not in my nature -- it's something I do ONLY because he has given me every indication that it is what he wants (by still asking me to do some of those things). He has never said "hey, I got this." I am not a mindreader.
So -- yeah. I am frustrated. I am frustrated that he didn't bring this all up before things started to build and fester, when they could have been fixed more easily. I am frustrated that he "worked on things" (which means "keep things inside and not bring it up") as one person rather than including me in the process. I am frustrated that no matter how many times I tell him that I can't help it when I cry and not to read into it or feel guilty... he still does (and I can't just flip a switch to shut off the tears).
But I love him. Dearly. I truly, honestly believe that we are both doing our best with this situation. I trust that he wants things to be better and fixed between us (I know I do). I am not angry at him. I am not even angry at myself for not understanding the small warning signs -- I really, truly believed it was external stress.
I think this approach here at DB is helpful because it allows me to trust him. He says he needs space to get clarity. I haven't respected how well he knows himself and God knows I haven't given him space. This seems to be a how-to for that, but in a way that is productive. At least that is my hope.
Tonight, my goal is not to text him at work (he works third shift -- another recent development that is effecting his wellbeing). I didn't last night. I won't tonight.
Hi MyBest, my husband is also an immigrant and we met overseas. There are some similarities between our situations. In our cases you do have to check and be sure you weren't used for immigration purposes, in which case I doubt DB would make much difference. Assuming you don't believe that's the problem, there are already so many challenges that couples face when one immigrates and then marriage is hard enough even when we're from the same country.
My husband also said he 'worked' on the marriage but I didn't see it that way. It's hard to understand sometimes what someone means when they say that. It sounds like your husband perhaps wants to leave and make himself miss you, or go date other women and see if he finds anyone better...those are some possibilities that come to mind.
In terms of detachment, I found it takes a long time. You have to find other friends to fill the gap. You have to get used to the empty bed, the silence, the loneliness. It may be easier if you have hope that your marriage can still work after time passes and you and your husband both experience personal growth and chance.
I struggled a lot with letting my husband go two years ago when he left the first time. I also felt like he wouldn't come back and we had been so close and had done everything together for so many years before that. It was so shocking to have him pack up his stuff and leave. It IS scary to let someone go. On the other hand, you don't have a choice, because you can't force them to stay if they don't want to. It's just so painful.
If you and your husband had a reasonably decent marriage then hopefully it won't take too long for your husband to realize what he's missing when he's gone. There is still hope.
You asked about how to get to step one. I'm not sure, but I think in the beginning you may need to find a way to reduce contact until you're more emotionally stable and confident. It's so unnatural to change how you interact with your own husband. I relate to how hard it can be just getting to step one!
I hope you get other good advice here and I look forward to hearing more details about what's happening when you have time to write more.
Hi again, MyBest, I saw on your response to Amarah that your husband is also from the Middle East. Since mine is from there too, feel free to ask anything or follow my thread. A lot of what you're describing makes sense to me because I've been through that with my husband as well.
Both times my husband left he wanted "six months apart to save our marriage." What actually happened both times is he had found a girlfriend and wanted to have the freedom to date. It doesn't sound like that's the case with your husband, but that is something to consider. There's always a chance it's not about your weight or your habits but that there are other temptations out there your husband wants to explore.
I hope you're able to avoid texting your husband tonight and I hope you keep going on all the great things you're doing to improve yourself!
Thanks for the insight, NicoleR. I'll try to find your thread and follow it too.
I did well last night. I didn't text or call. This morning, I was walking to the car as H was coming back from work and he initiated a peck on the lips. It made me smile a bit, but I was calm about it.
So - he is moving out in about two weeks for a trial separation. He wants to reassess at 3 and at 6 months. Our rules are that we are going to try to hang out every Saturday and have dinner together at least once a week. He says to call or text any time.
This is tricky. Thoughts? How do I follow the rules with this?
Trial separation isn't the death knell for a marriage. In fact, it most likely will give you both breathing room to think about the relationship, and also reflect on what each of you want. Well, if you're here and DBing, that is part of the process, but I hope that he also uses the time during separation to do the heavy lifting.
Give him space. Tons of it. Don't pursue.
Are you sure there is no A happening? As NicoleR pointed out, her H took the time apart to be with other women. Not saying that that is your case or your fate, but I would see if you can suss out any intel on that - don't go crazy snooping, but if something doesn't feel right, then it's most likely not right.
Hang out with him on Saturdays and do dinners if that's what you can handle emotionally. Start living your life and that your dinners and Saturdays are with some acquaintance you know. Act 'as if' and really get on with your life. You can't fake this.
My W wanted to do weekend dinners and she never followed through with them. I wasn't sure if I wanted to do them, and in the end I didn't, but she never brought it up again so it became a moot point.
Follow Sandi's rules and take it slow. Give yourself a break and focus on yourself. It's YOU time. He's gotta figure himself out.
He has been really honest about things since BD, and swears up and down that there is no A. I also don't think he has time for one... and I have chosen to trust him on this. Maybe that is naive. I think it's true though.
I can handle the dinners and hanging out on Saturday, I think. Just keep following the rules. Should I never call or text though? Ever? That seems hard. Or is it just cutting back dramatically on them?
He has been really honest about things since BD, and swears up and down that there is no A. I also don't think he has time for one... and I have chosen to trust him on this. Maybe that is naive. I think it's true though
I hope that it's true. I don't to make your paranoid about it or anything, but did you expect him to BD you? Did that shake your world? Was it out of character? If yes, then why do you think he isn't having an affair, or wants to pursue that? I am just saying that be mindful and attentive.
Never in a million years I thought my W would have had an EA, but she did. I thought our values were similar, but they diverged. So, just be mindful.
Quote:
I can handle the dinners and hanging out on Saturday, I think. Just keep following the rules. Should I never call or text though? Ever? That seems hard. Or is it just cutting back dramatically on them
If you can handle the dinners and hanging out, more power to you. But, if you realize you can't, then pull back.
My rules with my W about call/text is - only about kids stuff that is important, any business related to finances and house matters, and any emergencies. Outside that, I do not contact her at all. I do not ask her what she's upto, and I don't share what I am doing with my life.
Just start living your life. Here are a few questions for you to ponder:
1. Where did you fail in the relationship? How can you make improvements to yourself to be a stronger and more well rounded person emotionally, physically, and mentally? 2. What are you GAL activities? 3. What are some of your personal and professional goals?
