I'm so very down, confused and hurt. My story is complicated and involved leading up to the separation but to summarise my husband initiated separation Mid September 2017. He went out to lunch with a female friend on his only day off when he hadn't done anything with me for a long time. I happened to walk in on them at the cafe. He was embarrassed and annoyed and came home and told me he couldn't "do it" (us) anymore and that I never let him have friends or do anything for himself (not true). He said he wasn't sure if he loved me anymore and that he didn't know what he wanted in his life. He said he needed to move out and find himself and be closer to his new work because he was exhausted all the time, but he would use that time to recover physically and emotionally from an unsuccessful business and overworking and from my high demands (I wanted him to do some things with me, be kind rather than yelling and belittling me, and to put some effort in after his EA was uncovered at work).
Leading up to him iniating separation he'd been very emotionally distant, and angry with me due to work and he had a 2 year EA with a woman at work which devastated me, but it eventually got uncovered because all of the staff noticed their off behaviour. He reluctantly did some couples counselling, but didn't really try, and I feel did not put in a sincere effort to repair the marriage. He offered one short "I'm sorry I hurt you" and one daytrip out to make up for 2 years of infatuation with his EA and lunching with her every day, but nothing else.
So he moved out 29th Sept 17 and I supported him, telling him that if he was tired and drained from over work and depression that I would give him the time and space he needed. For the first few weeks he kept up frequent contact and updates on how he was doing and even visited home once and we saw a movie. He invited me to dinner for our anniversay, and gave me a thoughtful card. He also did some nice things that he never did in our marriage and even made steps to have the woman who he had the EA with (who was also continually disrepectful to me) in the business to be replaced if she didn't lift her attitude towards me. There were signs of life.
But by December 30th when we attended a wedding, he'd started losing weight, he had removed his wedding ring and he was sounding more removed. He made no furhter offers to come home and help with things or to go out together. During the entire time he was gone I was working on myself so hard and applying the 180 (in fact I'd been doing it since Dec 17 when his EA had gotten out of hand). I was constantly cheery, supportive, working on my own happiness and pulled back on communication, allowing him to make contact with me - which he did.
But on the 5th of Feb 2018 I got a nasty shock. I was sent an email by accident (on our home account), stating that his Tinder Gold subscription was about to expire. I was shocked, devastated and gutted. He was looking for a girlfriend or to hook up.
I phoned him to give him the option of coming clean and he said nothing about it. I waited 5 days in agony for him to say something. I vascilled between thinking he was on his own and the lonliness caused him to be tempted, to imagining him casually hooking up and thinking he was the world's biggest [censored]. Finally 5 days later he sent me a text message that I can only describe as incredulous. It read "*****(my name), I know you must hate me and for that I'm sorry. On another note I've made some very important inroads in the business and I ask you for the time being not to email anyone, as I'm working on a deal"
And that was it. He confirmed the worst in one callous, cold, removed sentence and then moved on to the topic of business. After 5 days of no sleep, worry and vomiting and then receiving the most insensitive text message ever, I sent him a harsh email, calling him out on his cowardly approach, deception, his lack of sensitivity, his insanity of thinking he could just barely acknowldge what he's done and expect me to focus on business matters and how I'd trusted him and given him the space and faith he needed to recover. I also brought up how hurt I'd been by his EA and how he'd never answered for it, or his anger, honesty, avoidance and indulgence issues and that if he wanted me to be able to move forward in any capacity (including business), that he'd better think seriously about making amends with me starting by explaining himself in person (and I recommendd he read Michele's book Healing from Infidelity).
He sent back an extremely nasty email telling me it was over and that despite what I though he was sorry, and if he was a coward it was only because he was trying to do what was best for me - to let me down easy. He said he was sick of the guilt and shame for past behaviour. He said that he realised that he went looking on tinder because he would rather go there than return back to me because he was lonely. He said he realised he would not return to me no matter how unhappy he was. He also said we would never get back together becuase it was clear I'd not forgiven him for past mistakes, and then said from this point forward he no longer wanted to share any of his private life and that he would be using a another bank account and email for his personal use.
I've been in a mess since. I tried, I really tried and while he was away I had thought so much about him and owned so much of my own issues. I was ready to be more open and grateful with him and to love him more and I thought (or at least hoped that while he was away that he was thinking about his part in our problems too and how he might improve). How devastating to know that he was just trying to have a long good bye, a "soft and graceful" exit, hoping that I'd move on, or that he was planning to say in a few months that the distance has created a divide and he happened to meet someone - except that he couldn't because he'd got caught on Tinder and was now angry with me.
He phoned yesterday to check in on me, telling me that I sounded ok, that he worried about me and he did care. He also suggested we meet together to sort out the details of separating our assets.
So it really, really seems final.
I'm so confused becuase I don't know if I was too forgiving (of his EA and going out to lunches and breakfasts with other women but never me), his anger and verbal abuse and not trying in counselling, or not forgiving enough.
In spite of it all I still wish in my heart that he would return to me with a full and open spirit, willing to admit AND work on his mistakes and bad behaviour as I have mine - but alas I don't think there is any reason to hope and I think I'm kidding and killing myself hoping for a happy outcome. I cannot belive this is the man I married and had worked so hard for 18 years to buld a life with and how he seems so happy that it's all out now and he's free to do whatever he wants.
I so very much need your help, advice and support. Please anyone who has had a similar experience offer me your wisdom. Michele WD are you there? Do I go dark and not communicate at all unless it is regarding dividing assets. We are meant to work together occasionally in a business we co-own.
When he rang, I was civil but could not bring myself to sound cheery or like life was good or I was moving on.
Welcome to the MLC Forum. I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome thread w/lots of homework, so read and ask questions as they come along.
Welcome to the MLC Forum. You will meet people who are at various stages of dealing w/the fallout of their spouses being MIA. I am going to post below, Cadet's Welcome Posting. Please read the links and then come back and ask questions, if you should have any.
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon _________________________ Me-63, D30,S29
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I am so sorry you are having to deal with this situation, but it sounds very familiar to many of the postings here. First, take a step back and breathe!
I urge you to separate your finances as much as possible, especially your credit card and bank accounts. If you don't want to do this, then watch them very, very closely because he's going to be spending a lot of money to make himself happy.
I suggest that you seek the advice of a lawyer, at least get a good idea of what you are entitled to if a divorce should happen. Do not share that info w/him. Do not share anything you read and/or learn here with him either. Be sure to take photos of all of your possessions around the home so that if there a split of assets, you have proof of what was in the home as to material items.
If, at all possible, refrain from contacting him unless it is an emergency. Otherwise, start living your life as if he may not return. Right now, it's all about him and he is singing the "me, me, me" song and is only interested in making himself happy. In other words, he's being a very selfish, self centered man that is acting out like a 2 year old wanting all and giving nothing in return.
The time has come for you to focus on yourself, do what you need to do to protect yourself and your assets. Believe nothing of what he says and yes, he'll make all sorts of promises and will not follow thru on them. They will even sign legal documents agreeing to do such things and then not doing them. So believe nothing of what he says and only half of what he does. Watch the body language especially the eye contact.
If you state you are going to do something to him, then do it. Actions speak louder than words. As long as you don't rock his boat, he may very well be nice to you, but if you call him out on things, he will most likely come out swinging, i.e., you've already had a taste of that.
Again, keep the focus on you. Leave him to his sorry self. Remember, you didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him and also, he fired you as his wife, lover and companion.
Breathe! It's one step at a time.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Equanim - I'm sorry you are here - the last place you probably ever wanted to be.
job is a font of wisdom who helped me a whole lot and she gives solid advice.
I'm somewhat cynical so keep that in mind when I suggest fairly strongly that you also see your MD about getting tested for STDs. If he's been using Tinder there's a good chance he's had a hook-up. People in MLC are infamous for risky behaviour. You may also want to see about getting some counseling for yourself. I know that my therapist was a life-saver.
Because of the fact that he lies you can't be sure that it was "just" an EA as well. Assume and prepare for the worst. He's living in crazy-town right now and his actions and attitude can turn on a dime.
As job points out, you need to care for yourself first and foremost. Just like in an airplane when the masks drop from the ceiling, you can't be of any use to others if you aren't taken care of first.
Go through the homework and also get to know the "neighbours".
Good luck.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I'd done much of the homework prior to the split and during the separation. I'd read "The divorce remedy" and "Healing from infidelity" and thought they were terrific.
We did 2 types of counselling. The first lasted 2 sessions and he pulled out and continued his EA. Later it was DB telephone coaching. We did 2 separate sessions and one together. He resisted everything and pulled out before the last prepaid session.
No his EA wasn't physical (I kept very close secret tabs, I know, I know you shouldn't do that and I stopped the snooping last year after putting in to practice the 180).
He says he only just started Tinder (which I'm inclined to believe because otherwise I would have got the email earlier - he forgot his persoanl paypal account was set to our home email). Also the losing weight and removing his ring was more recent and I think that was the beginning of it or the lead up to it.
I've started the financial investigations and am seeing a lawyer for a one off professional advice session today. Alas I cannot get a lawyer becuase of the situation with the business. In a nut shell I don't have an income and have had to start all over again working for myself becuase of it. I'd already started listing items I the house and was going to take photos this week but my phone storage was full so I have to fix that before I can)
Counselling... well I've been having it since November 2015, when his EA was in full swing in the business and right under my nose and I was being treated badly by all of the staff and other business partners partly becuase he was leading the way with a terrible example. It was hell for me and some of the things that happened with work, you just couldn't make them up. It's been disgusting.
Thanks Job for the suggestions on eye contact and to believe nothing of the promises. I will take it literally from now on (rather than a guide) and assume I will get no help with the house/finances or that he "Cares and worries for me" is a complete fabrication to try and numb my pain and his guilt.
I have read many books (both marriage and self healing/development ones) and done a tone of self development work over the time, but I need more obviously. I read the post on Pursuer and Distancer dance and it was pretty spot on- so I've still got lots to learn.
I will read the links.
He's been texting/emailing to ask about some work things. I don't know whether to give one word answers (to be as dark as possible), or whether to be more polite and add in a "regards", or "have a nice day" sign off to be civil and leave the door slightly open (becuase the divorce remedy says act as if you are doing fine and you are happy and they may eventually notice and gradually be won back).
If I limit contact to emergencies does that mean: * I don't ask him about work stuff (which is important becuase it will help me decide if I want out of the business, which was goig to be my future financial security) * Should I be catching up with him as suggested to work out assets, or just wait it out until he is really desperate? He had said during the separation that he was hoping to be smart with our separation and if we didn't get back together that we could work out something fair and amicable. He put forward that I get the house and he gets the business. (I don't think he knows that that is still a complicated solution becuase the house IS security for the business.) * Also I had wanted him to at least tell me in person and answer a few questions regarding his behaviour and he had said he would "explain". Do I bring this up or allow him to or not?
And my biggest question is: Was I too unforgiving or not forgiving enough?
He said sorry after his EA and for some other things (abusive verbal outbursts and other poorly thought out choices) - and I believed he thought he was. It was that he didn't reallly lift his game towards me afterwards - he didn't try to win me in any respect. He wanted to "move past it" but that also felt to me like rug sweeping because he hated answering questions becuase he thought they only led to more - and yes I was one of those people that if he told me something and I'd think about it and then ask another deeper question it generated in me. To him this was me never getting over it and when I raised those things in my email response he used that to say I'd never forgiven him (and therefore that was the end of our relationship).
I was lashing out, because discovering his Tinder activity opened up old wounds and showed me that he never really got it (ie what being sorry looked and felt like). I had actually never said I'd forgiven him for his EA because that's what I wanted to work through in counselling - but he pulled the pin.
So which was I? Not forgiving enough or too forgiving?
I know forgiveness means letting go of btterness and resentment, but what does forgiveness look like - does it mean you start with a clean slate, trust them and never think about or bring up the old behaviour? Or do you still remember and it still hurts, but you try not to let it get to you? Does it mean you want it to work but still don't feel loved because they don't treat you well (or as well as the EA, friends or co-workers). Does it mean you are confident and have total faith in them?
Only you can determine whether you were too forgiving or not. What are your thoughts on this? Which way do you feel you went too forgiving or not?
If he's contacting you, you don't have to respond asap. You can wait an hour or two or even a day or so. You can reply back to him in a general manner. If the responses just require a yes or no, then so be it. Try to think of him as a co-worker and treat him as such for now.
Let him come to you to set up a time to discuss assets. Listen to what he has to say, but don't agree w/anything until you've sought legal counsel.
As for lashing out at him...it will do no good. It will only give him more justification for leaving. I know you felt you had very good reasons for doing so, but you need to work on this subject w/your counselor. There will come a time when you will be able to speak to him about everything and a new relationship will need to have many of those things brought to light and certainly not swept under the rug...but that's a long way down the road. Right now, you need to focus on the here and now and leave the future to unfold. The past is the past and you can't change it; the present is a gift and one that should be your main focus at the moment and the future will reveal itself in due time. You can't rush the process for him nor for yourself.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
He had said during the separation that he was hoping to be smart with our separation and if we didn't get back together that we could work out something fair and amicable. He put forward that I get the house and he gets the business. (I don't think he knows that that is still a complicated solution becuase the house IS security for the business.)
May I ask what kind of business? And what Kind of income has it been producing? Realistically, if he got the business and you the house, would he be able to secure other financing elsewhere? Is the success of the business primarily dependent on him (that is, if he spins out does the business go down the tubes or could you step in and run it? Could YOU take the business?)
These sound like complicated financial matters and you definitely will need a business savvy divorce attorney to guide you.
As to whether or not you were forgiving enough - look, it's a moot point because he never made the effort. He wouldn't make a real try at counseling, probably because he, like most WASs, had already made up his mind to get out of the relationship.
How long were you married? Do you have kids? What are your employment prospects if you give him the business in a divorce?
I recommend you find out all you can about your financial options. Begin living your life for YOU. Get out and have fun, try new hobbies, travel if you can afford it or take a weekend to go visit a girlfriend if you can't. Let him wonder about all the fun you seem to be having without him, even if you have to fake it. Stop holding on to him. He's more likely to come back if he thinks he may lose you, more likely to tug against the leash if he feels you trying to hold onto him. And you may well find, once you've put your new life together, that he doesn't fit into it, and that's all right too. You may find you LIKE not walking on eggshells around a negative person.
I can't say too much about the business because I don't want give to much away.
We have a centre and we teach students. We run lengthy part time courses, short full time courses as well as membership programs to learn at your own pace. The house was used as security to set up the business at the centre. There are other business partners who did the same to set it up. The business is in deep debt and to cut costs and pare back the debt so it didn't close stopped paying us (not my fault as although I'm an owner, H and the other partner(s) made sure I didn't have too much position/power/influence - like I said you couldn't make up some of the things they have done and what has happened). It will be several years before it is in the black at this rate.
Yes I will be getting legal and financial advice. Some part of me wanted to work out the finance amicably, but I can see from reading about the WAS who shows signs of remorse and emotional connection, they can flip at any moment and are often feeling sad and lonely which is different to being truly comitted. Being accomodating only helps THEM to ease themselves into the situation rather than experiencing real consequences that might help them wake up sooner to the damage their actions cause. Even though I'm screwed financially without a job right now, I'm thinking I should push things along to separate things financially (or have him think I am anyway), so that he's not comfortable. If I get and sell the house (and he gets the business), then his business has to cough up money owed becuased the house is security for the debt. Anyway I digress - this is about my healing right now and negotiating a WAS with MLC.
I did want to speak to him in person to get some answers about his actions to help me with "closure" and I thought it was the least I deserved after 18 years, rather than a text and email. I'm not sure now if I should - whether that will be percieved as pressure and being too open and needy. It was meant to happen tomorrow. So in everyone's wise opinion do I have the talk or not, and how do I carry myself during it? I guess emotion is out of the question when talking to him.
The same goes for the business. Unless and until I decide I want out, I will have to see him and discuss business decisions at some point - even if I limit my contact. How do you recommend I am around him in the business and when discussing matters? Do I I hug back and give a peck on the cheek as he is likely to initate this at some point or do I pull back simply say Hi or Bye?
I thought it would kill me to see him and it might raise emotions, however after reading the stuff on persuer/distancer relationships and MLC I actually feel a bit better because I can see how he fits into it so well - and it makes me more clinical about observing his past and current behaviour (for now anyway while I'm on an "up"). So I'm wondering if I can see him at work becuase I can be more removed or regardless whether I shoukd keep clear during his MLC because even being present could be agitating and pressure? Your thoughts on this please?
I was meant to be meeting up with him today so that he could "explain" in person his behaviour (I asked him to at least face me in person and tell me why rather than send me a 1 sentence text message to confirm the worst).
Do I meet and how do I act? Blaze? No emotion? Do I say how I truly feel because I may never get the chance again?
I wanted to ask him how long he'd been on tinder for and if he'd been corresponding or met up with anyone while we were suposedly still together and when had he made up his mind to do these during the separation becuase for a time he had acted like we were together)
Mr Cynical here. First off, what are you hoping to get out of this meeting? If it's honesty, your odds aren't high. Real honesty will only come after remorse. You may not get anything at all since he's nowhere near remorse by the sounds of things. Especially about anything that he's either ashamed of or things that he figures is "none of your business".
I met with my ex (then W) in November 2016 during a period when (it turned out) that she and OM had temporarily broken up. She avoided all direct questions so while not lying, there wasn't any real telling of truth going on.
One thing that will come out of this meeting will very likely be fresh hurt for you. Even now we're divorced and it's been almost 2 years since BD - it still hurt when I had a brief brush of contact with my ex recently.
Not the answer you were looking for perhaps.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
