Gordie #16: walking away from from MLC W

[Gordie]

Ownit, DNJ, butterfly, Cali, Irish,

Thanks again for keeping up and the advice. And cali, never feel bad about your advice. I know your anti d but agree 100% that sometimes it does serve a purpose and how it differs between men and women. Irish, agree on the GAL.

*****NEWS FLASH***

Well, she did the two things I didn’t expect: (1) she withdrew the D complaint and (2) she dropped OM2.

Good: She says being D will not make her life better. Things will be worse for her and the kids. She agreed to go to therapy for her issues.

Bad: She still blames me for the breakdown of our M and she has no remorse about anything. She is still angry with me.

Ugly: She doesn’t know how she feels about me but is willing to work on things to “see what happens”. She doesn’t want a physical R with me right now.

I told her I was surprised and happy but didn’t want to make assumptions about what this meant. I reiterated that I can’t stay M or living together if there are any other parties involved. She says she knows this as I’ve said it repeatedly. I also respected her wish not to sleep together at this time but that I also don’t believe in loveless, sexless M.

Other notes:

She did not like my answer earlier this week about love being a choice and M being a commitment. She said that’s where we are so far apart. That I see M as a duty and she sees it as romance and passion. She also didn’t like that I didn’t “stand up for her” with D1.

So what should I do now?

[MarvinF]

Gordie:

I am a relative newbie and have been reading your threads for a while now. This has to be a head spinner here. Obviously looks like she is still in throws of MLC but something is at work here. Maybe it’s just fear of losing you, maybe some small realizations are starting to find their ways through the cracks.

Can you stay detached and continue as if this didn’t happen (minus the divorce obviously) and not re-engage but just see if she does go to therapy and what happens in 2-3 months? Or are you really out of bandwidth and just too exhausted by all this (which is completely understandable)? I am a believer that if people in MLC walk into therapy somewhat willing to confront their pain there is a chance.

Doesn’t sound like she is anywhere near coming out of the tunnel yet, but if this is the start is it still worth it to you? Even if it will take another couple of years?

I know these are obvious questions but sometimes asking myself the obvious questions is clarifying.

[AndrewP]

Gordie - I believe you already know that I'm on a "stay the course" script.

Looking at it cynically, she's throwing you an increasing number of crumbs to find the minimal amount of effort that she has to do to keep you enabling her life choices.

From one point of view this also shows you what her current thoughts are about the importance of people and relationships. She's now thrown OM2 under the bus (so it appears) for her own selfish motivations. If OM2 was worth destroying her marriage for - which is what she's done - he would be worth keeping regardless.

The oath that I swore and I am sure you and your W did similarly was "To have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse; for richer, for poorer; in sickness and in health; in joy and in sorrow; to love and cherish and to be faithful to you alone". I actually dug out my old wedding service to copy this.

She's not ready to abide by this oath. She just wants what she selfishly wants and is willing to manipulate you to get it using any levers and buttons she can reach.

Just my - somewhat cynical - point of view.

As job would undoubtedly say though if she happens by - she's absolutely not done baking yet and needs to be left alone to do that.

[Mach1]

Good: She says being D will not make her life better. Things will be worse for her and the kids. She agreed to go to therapy for her issues.

Bad: She still blames me for the breakdown of our M and she has no remorse about anything. She is still angry with me.

Ugly: She doesn’t know how she feels about me but is willing to work on things to “see what happens”. She doesn’t want a physical R with me right now.

I told her I was surprised and happy but didn’t want to make assumptions about what this meant. I reiterated that I can’t stay M or living together if there are any other parties involved. She says she knows this as I’ve said it repeatedly. I also respected her wish not to sleep together at this time but that I also don’t believe in loveless, sexless M.

So how do YOU feel about this ??

Would you accept her and the marriage if there were never any sex, yet the connection was amazing between the two of you ??

Would you accept her and the marriage if the sex were amazing and there was zero connection between the two of you ??

What exactly does reconciliation look like to you ???

And how will you know when you get there ??

How would you sustain after you know that you are there ???

[Gordie]

Marvin and Andrew,

Thanks. Yes, she is still in her crisis. I vascilate between hopeful and cynical. I know it took years to get to this point and there are no quick fixes or guaranteed outcomes. But dropping the d and OM2 are big deals so don’t want to be dismissive of that either. I think I need to read the healing from infidelity book and think about those “obvious” questions. I feel like the landscape has shifted and need to figure out how things change from here—and what things don’t. I want to keep my hard earned changes and GAL of course. She did ask, why did it take a crisis for you to hear me and make these changes? Why didn’t you hear me all these years? I accepted responsibility and expressed remorse for that.

[OwnIt]

Not at all surprised by this development. I had many similar ones in my M where he was going to stop seeing OW1 and recommit. Never lasted more than about 3 months.

I don’t see that this changes anything except your resolve needs to be stronger. All she learned is that the divorce bluff didn’t work. She’ll try another. With this attitude there will very likely be another/or the same OM, just hidden better.

I personally think you should still move out. How else do you change the dynamic? Showing her your strength now will yield more dividends.

[Lifes Twists]

Gordie,

You stated that she does not take any responsibility for her part and still blames you for the break down of your marriage, yet you question what you should do given her recent actions?

Why would you change course? Look at the recent history of your relationship. She stays at other mans place, demands divorce, treat you very poorly rubbing your nose in her actions. You finally have enough and make arrangements to move out and get on with your life with out her. This was not what she expected and causes her to change her course some what to try and recapture her control of the situation. Will this last or just be a pause in her behavior? Again, Why would you change course?

The course you are on now has set yourself up for success with or without your spouse. Don't make the mistake and change course now. If you getting your own place for now causes her to run back to OM and bail on working on your relationship then it wasn't not meant to be. Keep going!!!

[Gordie]

Mach,

Thanks for stopping by with the hard questions. As I said above, I have mixed feelings. I want to be happy and hopeful but I am still guarded and cautious. I want connection and amazing sex but the former is more important and a prerequisite for the latter in my book and no, I would not take just the latter. Reconciliation is rebuilding love and M between the two of us. I agree the old M is dead. I feel like I’m in uncharted territory because I don’t know what a new M between us would look like. I definitely want more honesty and openness and willingness to say the uncomfortable and to work through issues and no sweeping them under the rug. We can’t pretend she didn’t have an affair. I also don’t want her blaming me for all of the life choices she now regrets.

I asked her that q and she responded she wants to “feel” cherished and held and supported in all of her endeavors. She wants us to be more independent of each other financially, socially, and to not feel suffocated and controlled by me and the M. She ““couldn’t hear her own voice” and now that she can she doesn’t want to lose that ever. She wants me to love her and not the role she plays in my life.

[Mach1]

Mach,

Thanks for stopping by with the hard questions. As I said above, I have mixed feelings. I want to be happy and hopeful but I am still guarded and cautious. I want connection and amazing sex but the former is more important and a prerequisite for the latter in my book and no, I would not take just the latter. Reconciliation is rebuilding love and M between the two of us. I agree the old M is dead. I feel like I’m in uncharted territory because I don’t know what a new M between us would look like. I definitely want more honesty and openness and willingness to say the uncomfortable and to work through issues and no sweeping them under the rug. We can’t pretend she didn’t have an affair. I also don’t want her blaming me for all of the life choices she now regrets.

Well that doesn't sound like what she is offering at all...

And I am not saying that she won't ever be able to offer that...

What this sounds like to me....

Is that it prolly wasn't as much her breaking it off, as much as it was him breaking it off. She got scared, and she knew that she could reel you back in...

I would say, that for now...nothing has changed ..

Keep taking steps for you buddy....

: )

Oh...and maybe start refining that list of what reconciliation looks like to you...

Your wants, your needs...

How you will know, etc....

Whether you use it for her, or in your new future...

[Sotto]

I agree, it doesn't really sound like that much has changed to me. What rings my alarm bells is she totally blames you for the breakdown of the marriage. From all that you have posted, her behaviour has been pretty challenging. I think it is imperative that she accepts her own part - not because you tell her she should - but because she truly comes to realise that herself. My take is she was losing control and she wants to get it back. She also doesn't want the current situation, which suited her in some ways, to destabilise.

If you agree to work on things, I suspect she would soon revert to previous behaviour, having reeled you back in and restored stability. Truly, I would stick with your current plans, and if you choose to leave the door open a crack after you have moved out, that's up to you. However, I think you may need a little distance from her for a while because you have had a pretty full on time.

I'm reminded of Cali's situation and the 'awakening' his XW had - which seemed to come from a much more heartfelt place than what you describe from your W. In that situation, OM remained somewhere in the background and she fell back into contact with him.

Sorry to be a bit of a Debbie downer, but that's what I think Gordie :-)