Separated after 9y and W says it is the end. Help!

[lcause]

Mav, I can totally understand what you are feeling because I was there too. You can even read through my thread and see how similar I was 3-4 months ago.

Benito is 100% correct. You need to understand it. No matter what you do you can't get your wife to change her mind. There is no buttons to be pressed, no things to be said, no arguments to be had, no gifts to be given... The sad reality is that most of the time the WAS does not come back. Reconciliations are extremely rare, especially the ones that end up lasting and not being fakes or ending up in a similar situation later on.

Listen to me again, I was there too. I felt extremely bad and demotivated - but do you know what? Everything in life that is valuable is hard to get. Your brain will seek for comfort; the LBS is feeling more loss of the control in the situation than the loss of the spouse. You do not need your wife to be whole. No matter how demotivated you feel, no matter how worthless everything seems - FORCE yourself. Go try things out of your comfort zone, pick up courses, start dancing lessons, play guitar... TRY and experiment with things. It simply does not matter what you do as long as you DO. First it is hard, I mean, really hard. But keep forcing yourself, really push yourself and eventually you WILL notice that you are progressing.

- divide your tasks to smaller and easier parts because this way you trick the brain out of seeking for instant gratification rather than allowing you to complete the tasks you need to; start small but do progress

- write your goals to, for example, a white board and cross them over after you've completed them because this way your brain literally learns to enjoy completing tasks that have previously felt really hard to achieve due to low motivation

- keep a journal to monitor your progress because afterwards it's harder to see your progress and believe it unless you have proper proof to convince yourself

If you notice yourself slipping out of this process, don't feel bad. Just force yourself to continue it. It will come naturally. Search for other self-help material too.

In my sitch, OM is practically living where I moved out 6 months ago. Life's not fair. I get that. But then again, life is not good or bad - life just is. It depends on the person how they see and build their own life regardless of what they have experienced before. Making yourself a victim is not going to help it. Your kids will always be yours, no matter who they are living with. This can't be taken from you. Be the best dad for them and they do, and will, love you forever. If I could get over the worst phase, you can too. Allow yourself to have time to experience the feelings and the grieving. This process is a marathon regardless of the outcome. Baby steps. You will be fine.

[Parkema]

Mav, Icause,

I dispute your stance on reconciliation, RC is possible if given enough time and the correct management of the situation. Of course we have no control over our WS actions but that’s not the point here that’s NOT Divorce Busting!

We have no magical technique or button to press what we do have is the gift of time from our WS, FORGET her actions, her plans and her attitude towards you it will only bring you away from what you need to do which is to create your own identity away from them and begin to ween yourself off from the dependency.

We need to be more independent as this serves us well irrelevant of the outcome.

Rest assured in time everything changes this includes the “soulmate” R my WW is in! If they choose to stay together in a crappy R then so be it WHO CARES!

If you choose to stand for your M then use the time to nurture your identity away from your WS, become the alpha male and super dad or the female version in the knowledge that you do this to benefit you and to be brutally honest you have no other choice at this time.

There issues are exactly that THEIRS and there’s nothing you can do to make them change, it’s all based on them.

FORGET THEM AND WORK ON YOU, TRUST IN TIME…PAITENCE.

Mark.

[Mav82]

In my sitch, OM is practically living where I moved out 6 months ago. Life's not fair. I get that. But then again, life is not good or bad - life just is. It depends on the person how they see and build their own life regardless of what they have experienced before. Making yourself a victim is not going to help it. Your kids will always be yours, no matter who they are living with. This can't be taken from you. Be the best dad for them and they do, and will, love you forever. If I could get over the worst phase, you can too. Allow yourself to have time to experience the feelings and the grieving. This process is a marathon regardless of the outcome. Baby steps. You will be fine.

Oh, I do not know what would I do in this situation.

Thanks for helping me. It is my 2nd month and I am still not where I would like to be. Worst part is I am struggling to have a clear plan to execute. I find that my mind is seeking some solutions, or after the last discussion with my W, ways out for myself. I get an idea, like going back home, and forcing my wife out, but then I changed my mind (for good).
Normally I am a person that takes immediate decisions. But in this situation I still do not have a plan, and probably that is why it is so frustrating.
Also, unfortunately, I still love her as well.

[Maika]

I dispute your stance on reconciliation, RC is possible if given enough time and the correct management of the situation.

Hey Mark! Good to see you on the board.

I think you're right about recon in the sense that every LBS will have a shot at it at some point. Whether or not that can actually lead to a recon process is up in the air.

This is where the timeline issue comes in. If the WAS/WW/WH want to recon, and it's truly on their timeline when that might happen, it's very possible that the LBS has moved on by then. Also, this personal journey that the LBS is going through works against their partner because the LBS is getting to a place where they won't take their partner back as is.

So yeh enough time can be given, but that time can work against the WAS/WW/WH for a real shot at recon because the LBS isn't just waiting there with their arms open and not doing anything in that time for themselves.

I keep reading the standing thread from the MLC resources every so often to just ground myself in what it means to stand for the MR and why I am doing it. But, will that continue for too long, I doubt it.

[Mav82]

I dispute your stance on reconciliation, RC is possible if given enough time and the correct management of the situation.

Hey Mark! Good to see you on the board.

I think you're right about recon in the sense that every LBS will have a shot at it at some point. Whether or not that can actually lead to a recon process is up in the air.

This is where the timeline issue comes in. If the WAS/WW/WH want to recon, and it's truly on their timeline when that might happen, it's very possible that the LBS has moved on by then. Also, this personal journey that the LBS is going through works against their partner because the LBS is getting to a place where they won't take their partner back as is.

So yeh enough time can be given, but that time can work against the WAS/WW/WH for a real shot at recon because the LBS isn't just waiting there with their arms open and not doing anything in that time for themselves.

I keep reading the standing thread from the MLC resources every so often to just ground myself in what it means to stand for the MR and why I am doing it. But, will that continue for too long, I doubt it.

Don't you think that the WS/WAW can also move on?
Thing is though, if there are childreb involved, you cannot just forget about your W/H as they will be always omnipresent. Innmy sitch, I think thatbthe reconcillation will only be possuble after she gets ehat she wants and seesbthat the same problems are still there and tge other men are not giving her what she imagined. Cause as it was said, LBS is fighting against an illusion of a perfect relationship that WAS has in their minds.

[Maika]

If you're here, the WAS/WW/WH has already moved on from you, whether towards an actual person or a fantasy in their mind of what their life should be like.

Yes, as children are involved, you can't completely have them absent from your life, but you can have them almost out of your life. For me, the only reason I would have to contact my W right is if it's kid related. I am completely NC/dark with her outside of that. So, they're present in your life to an extent, but it's very very little. I haven't had contact with her in over a week, and the last time I initiated a message was weeks ago because it was kid related. It's very possible to cut them out of your life even with kids.

What you said could be a reason why she wants to come back and do recon. You have to consider that there are things about her that she needs to work on and just by leaving you, those issues didn't just magically disappear. If she doesn't work on them and wants to recon, you're back in the same place IMHO.
Anyways, recon is like a million lightyears away, if at all, and I wouldn't spend much energy on it.

I don't think about recon at all now, and if I do, it is only about what I would need from her to consider it. Don't make yourself Plan B and get your life together and get stronger.

[lcause]

Oh, I do not know what would I do in this situation.

Thanks for helping me. It is my 2nd month and I am still not where I would like to be. Worst part is I am struggling to have a clear plan to execute. I find that my mind is seeking some solutions, or after the last discussion with my W, ways out for myself. I get an idea, like going back home, and forcing my wife out, but then I changed my mind (for good).
Normally I am a person that takes immediate decisions. But in this situation I still do not have a plan, and probably that is why it is so frustrating.
Also, unfortunately, I still love her as well.

Let your mind do that. Accept it because it is only natural... it will take time. There's no hurry. We are individuals and our healing process takes a different amount of time. I just want you to try to progress and not stay still. Try to start small, decide on small things. Build on that. Watch some comedies and laugh a little, just a tiny bit. Start speaking more to people you don't know, just add a few words to conversation with the cashier next time when you buy groceries. Little small talk. Baby steps, don't force yourself too much because then you will end up falling harder if it doesn't work.

I know you love her. But you also feel the loss of control. I felt the same way - I thought I lost the love of my life. But as time has gone by, I've started to see the negative things. Not to say you'd get this feeling, but just to show you an example

I dispute your stance on reconciliation, RC is possible if given enough time and the correct management of the situation. Of course we have no control over our WS actions but that’s not the point here that’s NOT Divorce Busting!

I have never said that reconciliation is impossible.

I think you're right about recon in the sense that every LBS will have a shot at it at some point. Whether or not that can actually lead to a recon process is up in the air.

This is where the timeline issue comes in. If the WAS/WW/WH want to recon, and it's truly on their timeline when that might happen, it's very possible that the LBS has moved on by then. Also, this personal journey that the LBS is going through works against their partner because the LBS is getting to a place where they won't take their partner back as is.

I don't believe in this. The reconciliation percentage would be higher otherwise. I have to really disagree on this with AS. However, if you get hope to make yourself a better person by believing this (like AS does/did), by all means do. Personally, my motivation stems from my inner core and reconciliation does not hold any value in it for me anymore. I want to be a better person because of myself. I want to achieve things now for myself, not because of how others see me or how they define me. I do honestly think the beginning of my process was as hard as it was because I kept believing in this statement. It's like no matter what I do I get a chance... brain easily gets accustomed to this comfort so why do anything? Reconciliation happens if it happens, no one can predict the future. It is your time to focus solely on yourself now and be the person you want to be. Experiment and learn to enjoy the journey because the journey is what we all live for. Journey creates the excitement, it's the life with all of its ups and downs.

[sandi2]

Any ideas how to "counter" her 180s? She is showing on FB that she is interested in variety of concerts and other stuf she never was before. I have say it really hurts me.

You need to be proactive in helping yourself become independent of your W. You can't do it if you are following her on FB. It keeps you focused on what she is doing......instead of focusing on what you need to do.

It hurts my heart to see someone in the emotional pain you are experiencing. I put my own H in that pain, and would you believe I was cold about it? It wasn't that my goal was set to hurt my H, but rather I saw it as part of the consequences of his neglect of me. Your W is not able to have compassion for you, b/c her head is on whatever makes her feel special at the moment.

The harsh reality of this situation with a WW is that you don't make her feel the way she feels with this new man. It's not you....it's her. Her brain is flooded with chemicals that give her the feelings of falling of love. But, IMHO, it is not true love. It is built on her selfishness and emptiness. In other words, just about any man (except her H) could fit her needs at the moment, b/c that's all she is focused on......what makes her feel better.

The reason you can't be that man at this particular time, is b/c of two reasons. (1) She blames you for her feeling neglected, lonely, emotionally empty, etc. (2) She has placed you in the friend zone, therefore, she has no desire/sexual love for you. That's not to say it can't change, but I assure you that it won't happen quickly.

It won't come about until a few things happen. First, this chemical high she's experiencing will need to fade. There's a good chance that if she loses attraction for the OM, she'll look for OM#2. It's b/c she wants to feel the "high" of being in love. Do you understand? It's as if she is a drug addict. You can't trust a drug addict when they are seeking their next fix. She's not in love, but she thinks she is. As soon as she begins seeing the OM#1's true colors or the reality of the situation, she will either look back at you or toward another man. It depends on timing, whether or not her rebellion is slacking off, if she's had to really face losing something precious to her, what she sees in you.

Secondly, you have to be a better version of yourself. No more signs of weakness, b/c this really is a huge turn off for the WW. No more co-dependent ways. Being emotionally independent of WW causes you to be a more interesting person. Did you realize it? When all you do is work, go home and collapse, maybe do something with the family on weekends......you begin to lose some of your male swagger.

Yes, the W wants her H to be a family man. Yes, she wants and needs one on one attention from her H. So, it's kind of a two edged sword. You would have to find balance in being involved in family activities, as well as GAL for yourself, and still find time to give your W one on one special attention.

Women can undertake multitasks more [i]naturally/i] than men, IMHO. Traditionally, men focused on providing for his family. Whereas, the women had to do the housework, laundry, shopping, cooking, running errands, taking care of the babies, seeing to the needs of her H and the other kids, etc. The modern H has learned to share in most of these duties, and he is proving he can learn to multitask, too. Families are so busy in their lives that it can become very challenging to balance everything. That's why you need to learn how to balance yourself without her, first. It will give you a better chance at succeeding with her when you reconcile.

The newcomer LBH seems to have trouble in balancing some of the advice he receives on the board. Perhaps it's due to his emotional frame of mind, IDK. You are receiving solid advice, Mav. You may feel you can do nothing right for a while, but everyone feels this way in the beginning. Right here on this board, I have seen so many men make a fantastic improvement in their lives. Sadly, there have been a few that refused to "try" and just get out of the house and find something to do. They were so co-dependent that they mistakenly took those feelings to be love. They could not balance what we were telling them about GAL, becoming a better man, etc. Those men would give up and leave the board, without us ever knowing their outcome. However, we could only imagine their sad and lonely existence. I hope you won't give up, Mav. There have people who were M for 25 or more years, who learn how to regain their lives and are actually very happy.

We are not promoting divorce, although it may sound that way to your ears at times. We are trying to tell you how to save yourself before you can save anything else. This is your personal work to do, while the WW is going through her stuff. You have to separate your life from hers and find yourself again. She fell in love with the man you were 9 years ago. Although your situation may be different now, can you find the man you once were? If not, can you become a better version of what you are now? You sound like a wonderful person, but you've lost a part of you that made you special. Go find that guy!

Let me share something personal. I understand depression. I have lived with it most of my adult life. It is very difficult to be motivated while depressed. I am the type of person who has to find something that makes me feel fulfilled or rewarded. I don't mean in a self centered fashion, but just a fulfilled purpose within my being. I have learned that I am capable of doing things I never dreamed I could do. But I have to stay motivated. If I get bored with a hobby or activity, or I can't find enjoyment....then I have to find something else......or the depression gets worse. I need something that challenges me, without beating me up. I can't sit in front of a TV all day, every day.....without the depression getting worse. I have to have variety of things to do in my life. When I get "burnout", I am done! I am a Gemini so I have two personalities, or two sides.....bubbly, friendly, and funny...or quiet, withdrawn and moody. I have a social side but when I cut myself off from people, I take on attributes of a hermit, and become more depressed and I don't want to get out of my house for anything. It is constantly a work in progress for me. I have not been the easiest person to live with, and I take responsibility for it.....by doing what I need to do to stay balanced in my life. And this key, Mav.....if I sit and wait on motivation, it doesn't come. It's like fishing. If you won't get off your a$$ to bait the hook, the fish are not going coming to you.

The WW has a lot of work to do on herself and on her MR, but her timing and her work are on a different time table than yours. You won't see any work in her for some period of time. How much time, IDK. It varies from woman to woman. But she has to get the OM out of her head, or acting like Girls Gone Wild....whatever rebellious actions she's currently doing. In the meantime, you focus on yourself and the kids. You set goals that will improve your life. You meet new people, discover new interests, and challenge yourself. By the time your WW learns that she's truly lost you in her life.....you will be ready to respond in an attractive, manly manner. Some men lose another chance, b/c they aren't emotionally ready and don't interact with the WW in the way that works. That's what we want you to learn.

As to what can you do to get started in GAL, I suggest you look at whatever announces local activities in your community. Where I live, our local newspaper and websites announce various things. Some are in the form of entertainment, club activities, community classes, church groups, volunteer groups, etc. Just get out there where the people are. You won't be the only single man in the bunch. Look around to see the needs in your neighbors or community. Is there an elderly shut in person who needs snow shoveled off their sidewalk, or for someone to get their prescription meds, or pick up some groceries? Many elderly people don't have means of transportation or can't afford to pay someone to do these simple but important things. Some of them simply have nobody to give them a few minutes. Wherever your compassion leads you, follow it. Maybe your neighborhood is filled with kids that seem to have too much time on their hands. That might inspire you to start a Saturday activity for the group of kids in the neighborhood. Preferably something outdoors or in a public setting, especially if you are new to the neighborhood. You can get acquainted with their parents and that would lead to new friendships and having them over to your place, etc. There may be other single guys you meet and could do something together. I mean, the possibilities are endless.....but you have got to put one foot in front of the other one. It's not likely going to come to you.

[Maika]

I don't believe in this. The reconciliation percentage would be higher otherwise. I have to really disagree on this with AS. However, if you get hope to make yourself a better person by believing this (like AS does/did), by all means do. Personally, my motivation stems from my inner core and reconciliation does not hold any value in it for me anymore.

I agree with you that the motivation has to stem from the inner core and not from hoping that this will bring about recon. Then what you're doing is basically engaging in a performance and not making the serious lasting changes.

I think that AS talks about this from his anecdotal experience that almost all WAS/WW have attempted recon at some point. This doesn't mean that it will happen or the LBS is willing to do it. You're right about not dwelling on it or thinking that it's a sure thing with enough time given.

I can say that in my case, I am fairly certain that my W will regret her decision. But, will that regret turn to remorse and wanting to recon, I really doubt that. If she does approach me with remorse, that will be the first indication to me that she's gone through some personal growth because she is terrified of hard conversations and communicating things, and has a high level of anxiety. But, to be honest, I don't see that happening because W has projected all the negative stuff outwards towards me and hasn't reflected too much on what she did in the MR that brought us here.

The only real route, as you've noted, is that you have to better yourself and understand yourself deeply. That is the one gift that I have received from this for sure.

[TBSakaJ9]

Yeah. It is difficult to maintain the pace, when you see no finish line.

It is hard as h$ll but try to think about the finish line being for you and not restoring your MR.