New LBS dealing with WW Part 3

[Vanilla]

No its board rules Surfer....

No external links, I just don't want your membership suspended.

Click on notify on the post with the links apologise and ask for the links to be removed.

V

[Joe2017]

Surfer and V:
Thank you for the resources and perspectives. I am in Texas in the US.

I did contact my attorney, and ironically the papers WW served me prohibit both of us from engaging in the type of behavior she has been exhibiting: harassment, abuse, insulting in front of children, etc. So I have been advised to let the attorney know as soon as possible that it is happening so we can press charges.

Yes, de-escalate. Record record record record! GAL. Got it.

I am maintaining as much NC as possible. I will continue doing what I'm doing. But I also know I just don't feel the same way about her anymore. It's like I'm driving off and she's in the rear view mirror getting smaller and smaller.

I think soon I might tell her I'm no longer in love with her and I want to get this divorce over and done. Wow.

What a ride.

[Surfer]

Thanks V - will do.

[Vanilla]

Surfer and V:
Thank you for the resources and perspectives. I am in Texas in the US.

OK got it. That is helpful.

I did contact my attorney, and ironically the papers WW served me prohibit both of us from engaging in the type of behavior she has been exhibiting: harassment, abuse, insulting in front of children, etc. So I have been advised to let the attorney know as soon as possible that it is happening so we can press charges.

Good. Now is already too late, do it yesterday.

Yes, de-escalate. Record record record record! GAL. Got it.

Absolutely! Now for an action plan

I am maintaining as much NC as possible. I will continue doing what I'm doing. But I also know I just don't feel the same way about her anymore. It's like I'm driving off and she's in the rear view mirror getting smaller and smaller.

Yes, I know how that is. I love the analogy.

I think soon I might tell her I'm no longer in love with her and I want to get this divorce over and done.

No No No, my thoughts here, giving you my view

Stay Schtum. Avoid, de escalate, this is for YOU to know and for YOU to manage. Her thoughts are irrelevant, and your thoughts are your own. If you reconcile ever (hey, unlikely I know) there is no going back when you have said this! And you may want connection with your stepson. No burned bridges!

An OOP and D are boundaries for behaviour not feelings. Love is a choice and now you have chosen to not love but you may choose compassion eventually. And V doesn't believe forgiveness is mandatory. (Another time for those thoughts!)

Cards chest close any order. OK? Don't say too much.

Take action, that speaks louder than words! Dump her entitled ass, get your OOP. D swiftly silently and strongly. Use your feet not your mouth!

Wow.

What a ride.

-------------------------
There is a book mistakes men make in divorce mentioned on my post above which is for HIGH CONFLICT D. One of the major mistakes is saying too much.

Trust your instincts, do not prod the angry bear. Calm, silent, NC and grey rock. Look at BIFF responses on admin issues.

Do NC like a boss can be Googled and will also present you with sound advice on how to master NC. I can tell you V is a NC master.

Perhaps you could read the abuse threads and read Morbo current threads too. It might help to see another poster go through the same process.

You are smart and have hit the ground running. So proud of you, not my place to be but I am.

V

[Surfer]

Joe

Apologies. I have had a long drive family party etc so have had little time.

So locally it should be late afternoon for you. Bedtime here!

Just so you know it gets better; I am with the kids in a hotel and they are in bed - I have them every other weekend (Fri-Sun), every Weds and I take them to school every day. We are having a happy weekend with my family and we are all totally happy when we are together and apart. So will you be too so relax. Incidentally I am going to see if I can get more custody as part of the D as kids want this too. So eat assured, if your sitch ends in D you can and will all be happy. If you must be superdad and superjoe.

Now back to the maths. You are in the eye of the storm. You are right and so is V. V is right that this could go nasty. But if you act to prevent interaction I am hoping this is very much less likely. I can’t be sure of course so you need to use your knowledge of WW to judge your safety and follow V’s guidance here. I will explain the level of abuse I suffered below (you are being abused and have been for years I expect). Vs abuse was at a very high level and G is still stalking. In my experience the following could happen (I am telling you what happened to me here rather than predicting your future - your sitch could be worse or better of course). I would echo what V says about taking this seriously but being aware men tend to not call this stuff in or perhaps might not be taken seriously. I just took it (for years and years) and I am fine, apart from the odd twitch and my nervous squint. Sorry just trying to lighten the mood!!

So this is what may happen (did happen to me):

- She will plan her ideal future. Guess what, you are not in it. Your wallet and resources (house etc) are however. She may be in cohorts with OM in planning this and he may have his eyes on your WW, your house etc. He may even want be sufficiently devious to move her out further down the line and keep it all. All possible but certainly she has a planned future. It’s a fantasy however and you can stop it by staying put. As V’s experience, and mine, they ultimately go so stir crazy that they leave. But you don’t.

- She will use every aspect of projection, manipulation, gaslighting, abuse she can to break you. You will not be broken however as you are going to look at her with eyes of pity and use boundaries to prevent any form of argument. If she won’t accept the boundary, you leave the room.

- This is important. Try and establish when she is scheduling her rages. It might be before work, at her lunch time or just after you have have put the kids to bed. These points of the day, in my experience, are most likely flash points. Once you establish it you can almost set your clock by her pattern. And she will get one - she may have already. Work out her schedule then work around it. My WW couldn’t sleep she was a mess with anxiety (so was I - holding down a large team of 16-20 (difficult) staff as an Equity Partner to be in one of the big 4 accountants too at the time). I digress, she was all over the age but her rage schedules were stable, morning prior to school run/during (messed up raging), lunch (calls to invite an argument/rage), after kids bed - BTW do the bedtime thing it helps to keep the kids stable and if they are scared they will talk to you and you can reassure them. After bedtime was worst - nuclear fuel, hair trigger messed up nut job mode. Like a crack head in an Edward Scissorhands outfit doused in petrol and about to smoke his 20th crack pipe of the day. Stay clear of this person most!!! So my routine was, morning - up at 6am, 20 min run, shower get kids ready, have sufficient time to literally jump in the car (all of us) I would jump out at school with the kids and have a hide and seek game 10 mins then walk 5 mins and (1st most important job of the day) get them to school smiling and
Laughing. At times she would just explode in the morning because of the frustration and anxiety - ignore that. Comfort the kids (Mummy was a bit upset there, she must be a bit stressed, never mind she’ll be okay later after a coffee) and move on. Lunchtime, do not answer the lunchtime call. Send it to VM. Set up a standard response text (you can do this on an i phone) “sorry, busy, can you text?”. The point here is stay light hearted where possible (it is very hard to argue with someone that won’t argue back and worse if they are being nice). If the message is important, call her, but wait until she is into a busy afternoon if possible. Preferably, leave a VM or let her text you as your request. Evening. Tricky time. Just stay out of the room, pop through to get a
Cup of coffee etc but do not engage. The point is don’t look like you are Ignoring her, so if she wants to catch you to talk she can. But if it’s nasty exit conversation and or Room. You can also say, ‘give me a minute, I’ll pop back, just got to ‘grab something’ (do pop back in the room but don’t say ‘about that bull sh!t argument’). The point is, be around if you wish, but avoid, agoid if she is in rage or argument more. I guess you want to be around so she can talk if she can properly. If she can’t exit. Also, max 1 glass of wine etc as you won’t be able to do this with too much booze on board. Trust me I have tried!!! Beware any conversation that starts with her in woe is me mode. She is playing the victim, most likely, you will automatically go into rescuer and she will turn persecutor. See the drama triangle. She probably is adept at this. Watch for this behaviour. You need to become good at spotting it.

- in terms of the triangular behaviour. Let you and him have a fight best explains this. My WW wound start and arguement when kids were in bed. Over nothing (they are good at that) then I would stupidly engage. Why are you saying this? You are acting like a moron (not the nicest language I admit) but she would then phone her mum (who would be a bottle of wine into her night) and say mum he just said I’m a moron he’s horrible. She would then pass the phone to me. This is the triangle/let’s you and him have a fight when it’s rigged. If this happens just say sorry this is entirely inappropriate And put the phone down on the counter.

- She will project lots of ‘you never, you always’ abuse statements. Ignore these. They are lies. They are designed to crush you.

- the flirting in front of you with OM is to hurt. Don’t let it. She has gone, a WW replaced her and you don’t want this alien - he can have her. He’s bound to have the morals of a slug in any event. Can you imaging being comfortable on the other end of the phone as that guy? You wouldn’t. That’s because you have morals.

- ultimately she will leave the house is my view. She will of course take the kids and will then need to arrange custody formally - but she will ‘grant’ you some form. Contest the amount you get. She will need sufficient funds to do this so it might be sensible to make sure she has! That’s only fair also - so if she raises needing to leave say fine. I’ll make the rent available.

- she will start to block you seeing her family, your mutual friends etc. She will set up separate accounts, hide everything and separate everything. Here she is separating you so she can throw you under the bus in front of them (by reinventing history) and you won know and can’t defend yourself. Separated things is about her creating her new separate life.

I have a lot of experience in this post but in short She is now in total b!tch mode. My W even pinched herself and said I did it - look at that mark she said. I saw her do it and called her out. She did this many times. It’s like a mental disorder. Odd it expect the unexpected. Her last attempt at physicality saw her push me through an unlocked glazed patio door which opened and I fell and banged my head - hard on the concrete floor. She said I tripped the next day, thinking I wouldn’t remember as I had come home late from work after a late client drinks event in London. I did remember but knew she had shifted up a gear. It was time
To do the same. Being gaslighted after the event is also nasty stuff. You start to believe it. Did I trip? Or was I pushed?

Joe, all of this is background. To help I hope. There are so many other stories. I would write a book.

Think back. She was no doubt like this from 6 months in to your R or so. Sweet to everyone but keeping special arguments for you. The odd rage, over silly things. When you will not agree or toe the line. She was probably hiding this behaviour. It is mostly likely learned - nature nurture stuff. Over validated kind of kid or one that craves attention. She might event have a mental issue or even something physical (hpa axis dysfunction etc). Most likely is her upbringing. Does she ha e similar relatives, always right, aggressive sister, mum, cousins? Is her dad subservient etc. Look at that and when she first displayed a head for a
Fight and you will see patterns. When was the first big fight and what was it over? Something trivial? Mine was in 1998 over a set of curtains to
My house - I didn’t want I spend £350. She aged then left for home 2 days early (a 5 hour journey). My point is, I ignored the signs. Hen got blind to he abuse.

Open your eyes my friend.

Having read the above. Keep it simple:

- avoid her and all confrontation info check for and strategise her flash points
- look after you (exercise)
- be superdad, lots of cuddles, tickles and reassurance. Even just big there at bedtime, reading a story is reassuring. The scariest time is bedtime for kids so talk to them.

I will keep checking on you. You will be fine I am sure. If I can do it so can you.

Keep posting. Sorry for typos. Using my phone. Too tired to proof - I need my
Bed.

Surfer.

[Joe2017]

OK a lot of reading here. You are all amazing. I can't stress that enough.

V:
I am not sure how an OOP goes with the statement that I shouldn't burn a bridge. I understand what you're saying, don't get me wrong. I just don't know where to fall in between the lines on that one. Thanks for the awesome positive reinforcement. I am trying my best, and I'm not nearly as perfect in my execution as I should be. I am just doing the best I can with what I've got.

Surfer:
That is a huge help to me. Especially the playbook for gaslighting, projecting, and abuse scripts. It really is like they have a WS script. I have noticed an after bedtime schedule. That's the danger zone, once the kids are in bed. You are right, I did have a lot of red flags I ignored. Makes me feel like an idiot at times, but we were happy back then. This makes me so sad. She is leaving so much behind.

And blaming it all on me.

She is not here tonight, and it is peaceful and calm. That's when the PTSD kicks in. Lol

Thank you all again this thread has been a lifesaver.

[Surfer]

Joe

Remember you are human. You won’t get it 100% right. Just don’t give up and stay vigilant.

The bedtime danger zone is most important form now. The kids need your support then. Help get them to bed be there to reassure and the sit with them till they are asleep. I would not hang around for more than 30 mins then up to bed.

Be aware she will change her approach and find you to spew. Or change the danger zone not AM etc. Stay vigilant. Ultimately she will probably escalate her behaviour or she will give you the ultimatums IMO. I.E. you go or I do!!! You have a script for that too!

We all missed red flags too!!! There’s a reason for that (she hid them - in plain sight). You are no fool. You just hoped for the best because you loved her. You still will, but you need to put aside your feelings for now.

She will blame it on you. Think of it like someone leaving a job going to a new one. They always say the old company was rubbish. The new one will be great. They never say it was me I always a terrible worker etc or my abailty to be decent to colleagues does not exist etc. It’s becuase they are the problem, but they can’t see it and can blame themselves. Many have been unreasonable yet validated inappropriately for life. Perhaps daughters who are always told they are right even when being inappropriately harsh or nasty. Don’t worry about the blame. It’s just gas lighting and reinventing history. In short lies.

She is leaving so much, you are right. Get your head back into that phrase - she is going to make you the area’s most eligible bachelor. Become that and the best dad. Also, if she tries to make it back to you beware. V can help you more with this. I doubt my WW will try (hopefully).

Stay strong chap.

Surfer.

[Joe2017]

I'm trying to stay strong. I'm having a really bad time of it now. Its when I'm alone or otherwise safe that this happens to me. All my self doubt and insecurities pop up. I wasn't good enough. I didn't do enough. Didn't give her enough attention. I didn't do enough around the house. I didn't go church enough. I didn't work out like I should have. Blah blah blah. I know I played a part in this. And it just makes me so sad.

[Vanilla]

An OOP isn't burning a bridge it is a boundary enforcement. It is saying this behaviour has gone too far, next time more consequences.

The OOP itself isn't enforceable until you file it with the police. So you have an OOP then you can file it if you need to.

Let me just discuss PTSD. I have this big time, BIG TIME. I have had to learn to handle it.

Firstly it's complex PTSD, it derives from being in a war zone and over time. It doesn't arise from a single incident, car accident, attack etc. It is slow and steady trauma.

It becomes part of your physiology. Let me reassure you this is absolutely normal and natural. If this weren't so then you would be repressing and this is much much worse.....

Relax it's uncomfortable but won't kill you.

Firstly there is accepting this is what you have. Important as I said for even dealing with it.
Secondly know it can reduce, you can live with it and eventually change the pattern in it
Thirdly education finding out about it
Fourthly monitoring, know your triggers and identify times places and feelings that cause this
Finally treatment, and there will be treatment for it, some of it may arise from earlier in your life from FOO (family of origin issues). Different treatmentS work for different peeps at different times on different issues. No one size fits all, and just because one therapy works on one issue doesn't mean it works on all.

Be with it, walk into it, experience it, face it. There is an aspect to complex PTSD which is very hard to understand. It's called post traumatic growth, this experience has grown me as a person more than anything ever has. Much much more. I would rather not have had it but it has grown me and developed me into a better and more rounded person. It has educated me. I can already tell that you are on that road yourself, as a father you will excel, as a potential partner you will be amazing. Becoming the man only a fool will leave. I already see this in your future. It is not so far away you may not be aware, but it's not.

Let me also explain shift to you, shift happens in an instant, it's permanent. It is when you know and can never unknow. It converts to wisdom as this permanently changes your brain chemistry and structure. Change can be undone, change doesn't always last. Change requires external validation, this shift is internal and it's permanent.

I love seeing shift on the board, it is wonderful when true growth realisation and development occurs, such as with you.

You will be both excited energised and tired. You will need sleep and extra nutritious food. Perhaps a weekend away with your children walking in nature. Time alone is valuable too. Work is torture sometimes at others you breeze through.

Be kind to your body as it heals. It has served you well.

Breathe.

Recovery has begun.

V

[Vanilla]

Oh yes self blame is part of the responsibility to yourself.

Each of us is 100% responsible for the R. And so is WW and WH.

The past is gone, it can not be changed, but we can learn from it. We can learn about love languages, communication.

We can also learn and know we are good enough in fact better than that. Someone who can't acknowledge their issues can't change them, that's huge, huge.

In all of this we often forget that we are human.

I recollect a long convo with a poster who said he wasn't loveable. After threads of building he eventually wrote himself a love letter. Telling himself why he loved himself.

I recommend this exercise, it's small and simple but you may resist. Persist with it as it is worth it.

Every morning as you shave look deep into your own eyes and say 'I love you'. That simple exercise will really help. If you can't go that far initially try 'I admire the way you.......'
Love your children, have grown, are becoming a man only a fool would leave, are dealing with your sitch.....

You can not ask more than that of yourself. You are enough, you are a great dad, a developing human who is temporarily struggling.

I Internet promise it will pass. Enjoy the now, enjoy the moments of peace. Everyone makes mistakes, if you aren't making mistakes you aren't growing.

It's going to be ok. Breathe.

V