Hoosjim's 9th: WW, A ended(?); "All-in" or not?

[hoosjim]

Almost forgot. She also went out in that same time frsme, two weeks ago, just a coupla days after having dinner with vff, without her phone gor a couple of hours. I thought it odd at the time-- who goes anywhere without their phone these days, especially her... and she knows the phone can be tracked.

And, she got all dolled up Sunday, after sleeping on sofa after our night out to go have brunch with bff. And she wore the suspicious earrings.

Dammit, have I been just being played the fool again? For crying out loud this [censored].

[doodler]

hoosjim,

So you're a gullible defensive mooch. We still love you.

[Ginger1]

Oh Jim, I am sorry you are struggling so much. I read the backtracking just like Arista did and the defensiveness just like Joe did. I think you might be having some misdirected emotions right now, and the people here get it.

Personally, I am less worried about OM than I am about her resistance to doing what she is "supposed" to be doing. Her heart and mind is elsewhere and I don't think it has to do with OM or any guy for that matter, including you. She has this great desire to do her own thing without guilt or consequence. Her heart is not rebuilding the M right now. I think she is keeping it status quo and putting on appearances of trying so she could say that she did so she can do what she wants without guilt.

It certainly is a rock in a hard place. I really don't think it has much to do with you at all right now. But I also don't see this going anywhere unless she is left to do what she feels she needs to do. I feel like that time is going to come sooner or later. I do think you guys would seriously benefit from time apart, but I don't know how that would work or look to you.

You are trying really hard to help her get to a place you need her to be, but if she isn't in it, you are the one who is going to suffer.

Say, for the sake of argument OM never happened. She just decided to check out and told you she wanted a divorce. HOw would your sitch be looking to you right now?

[hoosjim]

Say, for the sake of argument OM never happened. She just decided to check out and told you she wanted a divorce. HOw would your sitch be looking to you right now?

Probably worse. Even before BD I was starting to have suspicions... the frequent going out, dressing herself up, etc etc. I don't think I'd be able to bring myself to believe she was "just checking out".

At any rate, while it made it somewhat worse, and even more so that it was with a friend, it wasn't just the A that got me spooled up and woken up... it was the realization I was actually going to lose her. But, given the way my mind works I'd prolly still be spinning scenarios, just now about every other man out there instead of just OM.

[Maika]

I certainly don't have anything to add here. Artista, Ginger, Sandi et al. have all laid it out for you.

All I am going to say is that you have shown incredible patience through this recent bout of rebelliousness from her.

The necklace, leaving the phone, getting dolled up and going out, the earrings - I am sorry man, but all of this adds up to at least her trying to maintain appearances and at worst, she's with OM.

I think it's time to throw down the gauntlet. You've given her patience and time and everything, but now it's time for tough tough barbed wire love. Basically, either she's 'in' or 'out'. And if she's 'out', I would highly highly suggest you physically separate. You need to take back control and bring out your own self-respect.

Sorry man! I was hoping that all those things were one-off, but the list keeps growing and that's not good.

[Ginger1]

You looked at it in a different context. I mean, how would feel about the R between the two of you. You are so worried about OM or any OM and that is not the biggest problem here at all, actually. It's a symptom of a problem. The problem is a lot bigger than any OM right now. It's within her and desires for a responsibility free life where she gets to do what she wants without repercussion and guilt. She didn't just go wayward because she was attracted to this guy and not you.

[Coconut]

I'm gonna bring all this up at MC tomortow. And the "all in" and we're working towards sex or we're not working at all bit.

It's just too hard.

Jim,

This is you trying to fix it yourself, and doesn't get you anywhere. unless she says "NO, I'm done", you will still be in the same place. You cannot do anything to get her where you want her to be, she needs to do it.

Your spinning, I would recommend you take some time to level out again, then decide on what you want and how you want to proceed. Making decisions or moves while your spinning is generally not a good idea.

[hoosjim]

I mean, how would feel about the R between the two of you. You are so worried about OM or any OM and that is not the biggest problem here at all, actually. It's a symptom of a problem. The problem is a lot bigger than any OM right now. It's within her and desires for a responsibility free life where she gets to do what she wants without repercussion and guilt. She didn't just go wayward because she was attracted to this guy and not you.

In a complete OM-free vacuum? Again, I'd probably feel not much different. Okay, maybe some different, and probably to the good side. I mean, she's right-- in many ways things have never been better between us. We talk, we laugh, we go out and have fun, we don't fight-- can't remember the last time we had an honest to goodness fight, just the occasional differing point of view on one thing or another but nothing that has caused discord or that we haven't worked out. She's not doing anything overtly disrespectful or rebellious to me (unless either of those items of jewelry she wears is from OM, but I have no way of knowing and they could just as easily be purchases she's made-- she's always buying herself pretty little accessories). Only problem, though its a big one, is the near absence of any intimacy or romance. She's not getting that "Spark" she wants, and, honestly, neither am I, though I love her and am physically attracted to her. I actually went through a couple of days... the time immediately following the "kiss incident"... where I was kind of whigged out and very empty feeling because, well, for that stretch I was just NOT attracted to her. The unreturned kiss and how that played out was just a really big turn-off.

At any rate, on-balance, ex-OM, I would prolly feel somewhat better about both the relationship itself in a vacuum as well as about our prospects of reconciling. However, the sex-free marriage would still be a showstopper for me. It would hurt a little less to be "cut off" from that, not having to contemplate that she was willing to do that with someone else, BUT... at 51 I am not willing or prepared to have no more sex and no more of the emotional intimacy that typically goes along with that for the rest of my life.

It really seems like she is not going to be ready for a marriage, to anyone I would say, until she gets into IC or does whatever else it is she has to do to break her rebelliousness and waywardness. And that just seems pretty unlikely to happen with her bff continuously preaching to her the benefits of the wayward lifestyle. It makes me sick.

[Holding]

Sorry I caused all the problems asking about communion. I guess I'll keep my follow-up question about the communion wine to myself.

(And yes, I am Catholic)

But seriously, Jim, the signs of late do seem to be pointing in a suspicious direction. Good luck!

[hoosjim]

This is you trying to fix it yourself, and doesn't get you anywhere. unless she says "NO, I'm done", you will still be in the same place. You cannot do anything to get her where you want her to be, she needs to do it.

Idunno, I think there's actually quite a bit I can do. I can refuse to live in a sham marriage. I can refuse to participate in sham marriage counseling.