Gordie: MLC W with a BF...negotiating our D #12

[SBJ]

Gord, I will again say that I understand the tough sitch, but I don't understand her need to start a new family asap. Bringing someone else in the relationship with her children is just her way of making it normal, or as normal as she can. It is totally batchitcrazy.

Your kids are spread out in age like mine and should be spoken to differently. The older kids know that what is happening is not "Normal". The younger ones know something is not right, but they aren't of the age that they will really understand. Mine used the line...sometimes mommies and daddies just can't live together any more. She left out the part that she was in an emotional affair while making her decision to leave.

They are not right in the head and will not think straight or logically about any of it. You my friend have done and are doing a great job with all of this crazy. I know that the hurt is real. I will tell you from personal experience that the first couple of nights without her in your home will be extremely rough, but after that a peace will come because you aren't immersed in the craziness at all hours. I won't lie and say that it is all gumdrops and lollipops, but there is a weird peace that will come.

I was 7 when my mother remarried. I don't remember the first time I met him, but I know that it drove my dad nuts. He told me so over the last year when we discussed my sitch. The one thing that he did say was that my stepdad spoke to him and said that he wasn't going to get in the way of mine and my dads relationship. My stepdad is the nicest man in the world and I know that had he not come into the picture there are many things that I would not have experienced in life.

It is one thing to detach from our MLC'ers so that we are not hurt by the craziness, but we cannot detach from our kids when they are being forced to do something that they have no choice in. Keep praying for strength and wisdom in all of this and I know that God will guide you where you need to be.

[Ginger1]

So taking one day at a time. Hopefully w will sign the settlement as soon as tomorrow. What’s bugging me is this: how do I emotionally deal with the fact that stbx is determined to make OM2 a big part of my children’s lives? L said I can’t really do anything about it. I’m worried that my children will think this is normal or that this will damage my R with them? Yet another thing I never thought I’d have to deal with in my life but accepting it is now my reality. How have others faced this challenge?

I have faced this challenge, which pretty much has been the biggest challenge of my whole D.

I guess one can say my daughter was "lucky" that she didn't have to go through the "transition" because she was under a year old when OW came into her life. I couldn't stop it, although I wanted to more than I wanted to stop the divorce. I became a new mother and now a stepmother was being brought into my D's life?!

This was mostly awful for me. I stood on this high moral ground and I said I never wanted my daughter to feel it was "ok" or the "norm" Although it took me years to realize, this was my daughter's norm. I had to make my daughter's norm as comfortable for as I could, even if it caused me pain. That was my choice.

Will this damage your R with them? ABSOLUTELY NOT. You are their father. I can tell you that does not change. My hugest fear was that it would. My daughter knows both me, and OWW in her life before she can even remember, and she knows who MOM is. Actually, it has made our R stronger. My daughter and I have a very unique bond.

All you have to be is their father, just like you have been. You will be there area of comfort and consistency and they will look towards that. I promise you this. They know.

BTW, I am friendly with OWW. I work together with her sometimes for the sake of my daughter. Let me tell you how long that took. YEARS. I did not meet her until after they were married. And we are not all best friends. We are not one big happy family. But we can cheer my daughter on in sports together. We can all attend her Bday parties together.

You do not have to feed into your Wife's delusion of being one big happy family. In her perfect world, sure she wants that. But you don't need to do that. And your kids won't suffer if you don't.

Just keep open, honest conversation with them and be their rock, and your relationship will be just fine.

[CaliGuy]

So taking one day at a time. Hopefully w will sign the settlement as soon as tomorrow. What’s bugging me is this: how do I emotionally deal with the fact that stbx is determined to make OM2 a big part of my children’s lives? L said I can’t really do anything about it. I’m worried that my children will think this is normal or that this will damage my R with them? Yet another thing I never thought I’d have to deal with in my life but accepting it is now my reality. How have others faced this challenge?

This is something not only we have to deal with .. but anyone who has an OP in the picture. Your lawyer is right ... not a thing you can do about it.

Gordie its the Holiday season, I know you have read a bit by what you have shared so I will most likely just be giving you a refresher .... many times the MLCr simply shifts the love they held for us towards the OM/OW, in your case its now transferred to the OM2, along with this is also the 'feelz' holiday brings and she will try to kid herself this new family is all she ever wanted.

My BD was Sept, she moved out Nov and by Dec she had OM, his 2 kids, my son and herself all cozied up in her new place and they built a gingerbread house together .... at the time I was losing my mind, looking back that Ginger bread house was symbolic and took on a new meaning for me and now I honestly laugh at the visual.

My son, 6 years old at the time did not understand what was going on but did know mom was not right and OM was not 'just a friend' as he was told. This really did a number on their relationship and somehow I knew I had to be the rock .. both parents as we have discussed here all over the boards.
As bad as you think you have it ... the kids have it worse. They love both mom and dad and they know something is not right, unlike us they do not have a forum to go to, to read up on , to try to make some sort of sense out of it all.

So the short answer, this is not going to damage your relationship with them... most likely its going to make the bond stronger as they will look to you to be the rock as they just do not explain why mom is forcing this new dude on them. As SBC said ... you will have age appropriate talks at the appropriate times. I have always been careful to remove my emotions and focus on my sons when he asks questions and have always been careful of what I share. Someone here once told me the kids are 50% you, 50% them .. so if you tell them "you mother has lost her mind, she is nuts, she is horrible for doing this" they start thinking that 50% of themselves could be just like the MLCr.

As far as how I have handled it, luckily my MLCr knew/knows that exposing OM to me would not be a good idea ... I have never threatened him but the Old Cali would not think twice about peppering dudes nose .... tbh I would most likely just remove myself from the situation. For some strange reason she has not exposed OM to our S10 since I moved out back in Feb15, S10 did voice around that time he did not like OM (after MLCr pronounced her love for the dude and told us we had to accept it). So for your sitch .... she is already on OM2, its most likely going to run its course and maybe a OM3 comes in, maybe she stays solo who knows .... regardless nothing you can do so just channel your inner Clint Eastwood and do not flinch nor show emotion, go about your day and live your life as hard as it is... she is watching, and most importantly those kids are also watching.

Hang in there.

[Gordie]

Ownit: Just be honest with them, and without judgment, when they want to talk about issues. Let them lead the discussion and make it appropriate for each age group. You can tell them what you believe, without impugning her. As parents it is our job to talk to our kids about relationships, morality, and ethics. I don't believe a schism in the family changes that obligation.

G: wow, I have literally been paralyzed to talk about these things lately as I feel anything I say is a condemnation and judgment of w. How do I do that without impugning w? But you are right, it is still part of my parental duty and can’t not do that just because it is more uncomfortable.

O: My children know my stance on marriage, fidelity, and trust in relationships. He does not talk to them about these kinds of issues and they do not open their hearts to him. You will likely experience the same thing. Kids have good antennae. They know about problems in the relationship long before we tell them. They know who has their back.

G: well, w was always more of the teacher on religion and morality. I let her take the lead on these topics. I can’t change the past. I can only change the future. When w now talks about these subjects, the teens get cross eyed.

O: Try not to borrow trouble and take each day as it comes. I have worked a lot with my counselor on not catastrophizing everything and just standing back and dealing with issues when they actually arrive. My anxiety is way down.

G: thank you. I have never heard that term, catastrophisizing but I am guilty as charged.

[Gordie]

AndrewP: For yourself this is another betrayal that you will need to deal with. If not OM2 then OMX etc. Your STBX shows poor judgement in pushing another man into their lives even before your chair is cold. But - well - that is what it is. I wrote before about mind-shifts where your STBX is no longer "your" wife/ex-wife but where she is the "mother of your children". Somehow you need to find a way to distance yourself from this guy as well.

G: Your comments have stuck in my head. I am trying to make that shift but woah, haven’t gotten there yet...at all. Makes me think of my friend. His w left him for OM and he never calls her by name. She is only “x’s Mother”.

A: sounds like he will have contact with your kids sooner rather than later and that it's not being done in a thoughtful way. No matter whether he tries to be a "Disney Dad" or is a guy who will ignore them, stories will get back to you. I haven't had to face this myself but I've read lots of places where it happens. I recall some old threads by CT1118 where he worked on dealing with this with his young son. It's tough.

G: yes, I have refused to meet him and have asked stbx not to talk to me about him which she honors. Issue is little kids and it’s not their fault. But they always report back to me on what they did with OM2 and what he said about mommy, etc. it makes me ill.

A: Hopefully some of the others who are dealing with co-parenting will chime in. There are a fair number here. I've said it before and I'll say it again. This is the toughest thing that you will ever have to do. It takes a very brave and very strong man to take what you have taken with the grace and courage you have shown.

[Gordie]

Butterfly: I'm so sorry, Gordie. Look at it this way, at least you're getting all this over with at once. Small favors, I know.

G: she has the paperwork. I did all the work, she just needs to sign.

B: I think if I were faced with this I'd want to know as much as possible about the person who would be interacting with my children. The internet is a great tool. Use it to your advantage. Painful as it is personally, your primary responsibility is protecting the kids. He may be a harmless guy. Best to do some checking.

G: I have refused to meet him. I know his first name because of the little kids (at least she doesn’t make them call him dad or something) and what he looks like (awesome screen saver), so should I ask for his last name and details or actually meet him? I don’t want to for my own sanity but am willing to sacrifice that if it’s whats best for the kids.

B: I've never been in this situation. Thankfully my exh kept his activities focused in another state so son and I never had to deal with anyone else. We also had it written into our agreement that we would not introduce son to anyone unless it was a more than merely casual social relationship. Honestly I have no good advice to give here.

G: that clause is only a handshake agreement in my state and is moot because she has already done it.

B: I will tell you that kids are loyal. Kids love their parents. One of the gifts of childhood is that kids see right through the BS - so, I don't believe you're in any danger of being replaced by your children. Kid need and crave structure and consistency. Keep being their rock.

G: at my core, that is one of my fears...stbx already replaced me with OM1 and then OM2. Will the kids replace me in their hearts with OM2 too?

B: Again, I'm really sorry you're dealing with this right now on top of everything else. Hang in there. xoxoxo

[Gordie]

SBJ: I will again say that I understand the tough sitch, but I don't understand her need to start a new family asap. Bringing someone else in the relationship with her children is just her way of making it normal, or as normal as she can. It is totally batchitcrazy.

G: it is crazy. She doesn’t understand why I don’t want to meet him and all of us to be friends. I don’t even try to explain why. If it’s not obvious, there are no words...

SBJ: Your kids are spread out in age like mine and should be spoken to differently. The older kids know that what is happening is not "Normal". The younger ones know something is not right, but they aren't of the age that they will really understand. Mine used the line...sometimes mommies and daddies just can't live together any more. She left out the part that she was in an emotional affair while making her decision to leave.

G: yeah, part of her crazy is that she isn’t even covering this up with the kids. They all know and she expects everyone to accept and be normal and be happy.

SBJ: They are not right in the head and will not think straight or logically about any of it. You my friend have done and are doing a great job with all of this crazy. I know that the hurt is real. I will tell you from personal experience that the first couple of nights without her in your home will be extremely rough, but after that a peace will come because you aren't immersed in the craziness at all hours. I won't lie and say that it is all gumdrops and lollipops, but there is a weird peace that will come.

I was 7 when my mother remarried. I don't remember the first time I met him, but I know that it drove my dad nuts. He told me so over the last year when we discussed my sitch. The one thing that he did say was that my stepdad spoke to him and said that he wasn't going to get in the way of mine and my dads relationship. My stepdad is the nicest man in the world and I know that had he not come into the picture there are many things that I would not have experienced in life.

G: there’s the rub. For my kids sake, I do hope OM2 is like your stepdad. But man, it just s***** that he is even in the picture.

SBJ: It is one thing to detach from our MLC'ers so that we are not hurt by the craziness, but we cannot detach from our kids when they are being forced to do something that they have no choice in. Keep praying for strength and wisdom in all of this and I know that God will guide you where you need to be.

[Gordie]

Ginger: I have faced this challenge, which pretty much has been the biggest challenge of my whole D.

G: thank you. I was hoping you’d give me some advice.

Ginger: I guess one can say my daughter was "lucky" that she didn't have to go through the "transition" because she was under a year old when OW came into her life. I couldn't stop it, although I wanted to more than I wanted to stop the divorce. I became a new mother and now a stepmother was being brought into my D's life?!

G: I️ can’t imagine how awful that must have felt, the turmoil. And yes, this part seems worse than the actual d.

Ginger: This was mostly awful for me. I stood on this high moral ground and I said I never wanted my daughter to feel it was "ok" or the "norm" Although it took me years to realize, this was my daughter's norm. I had to make my daughter's norm as comfortable for as I could, even if it caused me pain. That was my choice.

G: ugh, this is what I️ am struggling with. Stbx is trying to make this normal for my kids. And my being is screaming: this is not normal! Everything is not okay! But I have a d friend who told me something along the same lines. You’re going to eat some s*** for your kids.

Ginger: Will this damage your R with them? ABSOLUTELY NOT. You are their father. I can tell you that does not change. My hugest fear was that it would. My daughter knows both me, and OWW in her life before she can even remember, and she knows who MOM is. Actually, it has made our R stronger. My daughter and I have a very unique bond.

G: thank you for this reassurance, it is my fear.

Ginger: All you have to be is their father, just like you have been. You will be there area of comfort and consistency and they will look towards that. I promise you this. They know. BTW, I am friendly with OWW. I work together with her sometimes for the sake of my daughter. Let me tell you how long that took. YEARS.

G: yeah. I will take some time. And who knows how long OM2 will last.

Ginger: I did not meet her until after they were married. And we are not all best friends. We are not one big happy family. But we can cheer my daughter on in sports together. We can all attend her Bday parties together.

G: yes, if they marry, then I’ll meet him. Not sure i need to do so before then.

Ginger: You do not have to feed into your Wife's delusion of being one big happy family. In her perfect world, sure she wants that. But you don't need to do that. And your kids won't suffer if you don't. Just keep open, honest conversation with them and be their rock, and your relationship will be just fine.

G: thanks. I️ can fake some things. But being one big happy family and buddies with OM2? No thanks.

[Gordie]

Cali: This is something not only we have to deal with .. but anyone who has an OP in the picture. Your lawyer is right ... not a thing you can do about it. Gordie its the Holiday season, I know you have read a bit by what you have shared so I will most likely just be giving you a refresher .... many times the MLCr simply shifts the love they held for us towards the OM/OW, in your case its now transferred to the OM2, along with this is also the 'feelz' holiday brings and she will try to kid herself this new family is all she ever wanted. My BD was Sept, she moved out Nov and by Dec she had OM, his 2 kids, my son and herself all cozied up in her new place and they built a gingerbread house together .... at the time I was losing my mind, looking back that Ginger bread house was symbolic and took on a new meaning for me and now I honestly laugh at the visual.

G: Cali, th n you for sharing this painful memory. I️ feel like stbx is on the same track. She is already “building memories” with OM2 and kids. I️ can’t stand it.

Cali: My son, 6 years old at the time did not understand what was going on but did know mom was not right and OM was not 'just a friend' as he was told. This really did a number on their relationship and somehow I knew I had to be the rock .. both parents as we have discussed here all over the boards.
As bad as you think you have it ... the kids have it worse. They love both mom and dad and they know something is not right, unlike us they do not have a forum to go to, to read up on , to try to make some sort of sense out of it all.

G: thanks for the hearbreaking reminder. And yes, their pain is worse.

Cali: So the short answer, this is not going to damage your relationship with them... most likely its going to make the bond stronger as they will look to you to be the rock as they just do not explain why mom is forcing this new dude on them. As SBC said ... you will have age appropriate talks at the appropriate times. I have always been careful to remove my emotions and focus on my sons when he asks questions and have always been careful of what I share. Someone here once told me the kids are 50% you, 50% them .. so if you tell them "you mother has lost her mind, she is nuts, she is horrible for doing this" they start thinking that 50% of themselves could be just like the MLCr.

G: I️ Love that 50/50 reminder on not bad mouthing stbx.

Cali: As far as how I have handled it, luckily my MLCr knew/knows that exposing OM to me would not be a good idea ... I have never threatened him but the Old Cali would not think twice about peppering dudes nose .... tbh I would most likely just remove myself from the situation.

G: that’s my plan. To remove myself from any situation where she decides to present him. I️ can’t handle that right now.

Cali: For some strange reason she has not exposed OM to our S10 since I moved out back in Feb15, S10 did voice around that time he did not like OM (after MLCr pronounced her love for the dude and told us we had to accept it).

G. Good for your son.

Cali: So for your sitch .... she is already on OM2, its most likely going to run its course and maybe a OM3 comes in, maybe she stays solo who knows .... regardless nothing you can do so just channel your inner Clint Eastwood and do not flinch nor show emotion, go about your day and live your life as hard as it is... she is watching, and most importantly those kids are also watching.

G: thanks. You and Ginger have been a huge help.

[Gordie]

Journaling:

W has been begging me to do the d work that she has not done with her L. I️ have done it and now she and her L have it for review. I️ hope she signs it ASAP.

So mentally, I am more than ready for this d. I️ want to move on to the next chapter of my life. Yes, I️ have a lot of fears and anxieties, but I️ know that I️ have what it takes to be the man and father I️ want to be.

W’s habit is to be gone on the weekend, so kid1 asked for x for dinner and then asked if a friend could join. I️ said yes. Then kid2 asked if a friend could come and I️ said yes again. So I️ had a nice dinner plan for my kids and their friends and stbx comes in as I️ am cooking. Surprisingly, she starts making a dessert and joins us for dinner. It was a good time with a lot of laughs. Dessert is still in the oven so we wrap up dinner and I️ clean up and put the kids to bed. Stbx takes her dessert out of the oven and cheerily leaves to bring it to OM2.