Gordie: MLC W with a BF...negotiating our D #12

[Sotto]

"I know it’s against the advice given by some wise souls here, but really think I have to move out once this is signed. I can’t handle being here any more."

I can't imagine anyone would disagree with this Gordie, given all that has been happening for you. My big piece of advice on moving out is to make sure you find yourself a comfortable, nourishing and convenient living situation. Please don't make huge compromises and live somewhere that isn't nice - enjoy finding somewhere and enjoy making it yours...

Like others have said, I think you will enjoy the peace that being away from her brings. You don't have to come home from work and worry about what may be on the screensaver or her phone. Also, WRT custody, you may not want to tie in to a longer term arrangement of custody at 'her' place. Okay for the short term, but not great for you in the medium and longer term.

I think she is making really poor judgements about bringing OM into contact with her kids. She sounds pretty infatuated and can't really see beyond this at the moment. It isn't a great thing for them to be introduced to him right after they have been told Mum & Dad are getting divorced. There will be consequences further down the road for this and my guess is she will lose some of the trust and confidence of her children, which is a sad thing. They will feel she didn't manage to be there, present for them during such an unsettling time. I hope you'll manage to carry on being the rock for them Gordie..

Best wishes and I"m rooting for you Gordie! Xx

[Gordie]

Butterfly, Kuharski, Sotto,

Thank you for listening and your kind words this morning. Last night I couldn’t calm my mind. I was tossing and turning and my mind was spinning. When it was approaching wake up time I hit the weights which felt good and calmed me.

1. Thanks for your support in moving out. I have no idea how I am going to swing it financially but for my own sanity I will find a way to make it work. I also think I need a bigger place as some of the kids may want to escape with me sooner than I had expected.

2. Yes, like many of you warned here, w has racked up a lot more debt that was discovered in the d process. It means I am left with less money than I thought would be there. W is mad that I am no longer providing extra cash for her. As a result, I think she is now getting money from OM2.

3. Ownit, I can’t believe the mother of my children would do this either. My w was super mom. As has been said, she is now the opposite of what she was. It is devastating to me and the children. And she still insists everything is normal and the kids will be fine.

4. K, I’m glad they are opening up to me too. So one of the things I’ve changed in my parenting is that I need to be present to my children in a different way now. I really did let w be the parent more attuned to the children’s emotional needs, as I have always felt that mothers are more...mothering. As Irish points out, I’m more of a single parent now...both mother and father, so I’ve got to learn more of those skills. I’m not a touchy-feels guy naturally but I’m getting better.

5. Sotto, I’ve been debating that exact question: nicer now or save money to buy something nicer later. So maybe I do nicer now...for my mental health and to create a refuge for the kids. I also think introducing OM2 while we are legally married and living together is beyond poor judgment...it’s out of touch with reality. I know she is damaging her R with the kids but feel I can’t do anything about that now.

***

God, please give me the strength to make it through another day.

[SBJ]

Gordie, I am at a total loss for words with regards to what is going on in your world right now. One thing I can promise is that at some point things will change and you will be at more peace. She is being so totally selfish right now and is blinded and ignorant to the fact that what she is doing will have lifelong effects on everyone involved. Our children see how we react and stand for what is right in marriage and will hopefully use our example instead of our MLC'ers example.

I know that things are rough right now, but you are being the rock you need to be for those beautiful kids that God entrusted you with. Release the frustration when you need to and love your kids.

I believe you are correct when saying that God doesn't want to destroy marriages and families, but I do believe that He will use what is happening for good in the future and it will be for His glory. You are in my prayers daily, as are all of my stander friends here, and I believe that our faith will get us thru this storm. I know that in times like this we will question our faith, but keep asking God to show himself to you and your faith will be increased.

[Brubeck]

Gordie,

Sorry for the latest developments. Your sitch is catching up to mine, and in some ways, it's worse. Your W is really out there lost at sea. Bringing OM2 to meet the kids and the screensaver stuff...she's trying to make this insanity seems as normal as possible.

Remember, there is a need on their part to create chaos. Who knows why. Maybe it's misery loves company, maybe they want the whole room to be spinning for everyone else so it doesn't feel like they're the only ones spinning.

As for Mom - I'm kind of going through the same thing. My BD was January, 2016. I didn't tell my mother anything until W filed in October. Instead of a long distance phone call, I did a 2-hour Skype with her where I told her everything - including some info about MLC. I continued to talk to her about this and share MLC info.

My mother's own opinion mirrored my own, but sometimes, she'd say something as if she's trying to be sympathetic about it, she even tried justifying some of my W's replay behavior. Sometimes I wonder if my mother thinks my W is just suffering from Neglected Housewife Syndrome or something like that. It's gotten me really angry hearing her trying to sound neutral. I'm sure she misses her DIL (they had a great relationship pre-BD). A lot of people don't understand MLC. I just focus on talking about the kids to her. I don't talk D talk with my mother much because her replies can make me really angry. It's like - who's side are you on?

As for moving out - I am going to play Devil's advocate and ask why should YOU leave? She's already taking off to see OM, why don't she just make it regular? Why should you go? You and the kids are happy with each other for company. She's the one that wants everything changed. Change is out THERE with OM and whatever else she's doing.

It takes focus to work through this. If nothing else, you will detach even further through sheer exhaustion. I also tossed and turned staying up all night when she was out. Now, me and my sons all breathe easy when she's not there. It's a freaking stress fest when she's home. You will take steps day by day to react less and less to this madness.

It is madness, my brother. Just cause she's walking through it whistling & smiling doesn't make it any more normal.

Remember that this is a tornado in front of you, and you will get away from it eventually. The tornado is inside her, and it is an awful place to be. We are lucky not to be in their shoes.

[Brubeck]

Oh Gordie, one more thing...

About being noticed by women, I've gone through the same thing in the past 6 months. I even had a new client flirt with me. I also wondered why this was happening. I didn't know if it was something to do with how women in their 40s put vibes out there, or if it was just that I was happily married for so long and never really took a long look at any other woman, but now I was.

I don't think it means anything along the lines of jumping back into the dating waters. It just means you're NOT dead.

[AndrewP]

Gordie - I just saw this on 25's thread.

Google
"alimony will not be tax deductible as of January 1, 2018"

and perhaps give your lawyer a solid kick. This may or may not pass. Congress is uncertain. But it would certainly change the mathematics involved for you.

[CaliGuy]

Gordie my friend

Reading up/Catching up just wanted to toss some input here solely from my perspective. Common advice on this board is to not move out, in 2013 mine saved me from that choice and emptied the accounts and got her own place.... at the time I had no idea about OM, let alone MLC, wasnt till months after I found out and basically told her off as she dropped off our S. Second time around I moved in with her 2015 in her new place and tried to make it work for a few months as she was doing her touch n gos, when I discovered she was still sneaking around with OM I moved out with a quickness. I think it was less than one week I was out. Sometimes you have to choose ... face the disrespect and put up with it, or say enough is enough and protect yourself. For me I knew that was it ... I dropped rope and admitted I could not put up with the cray any longer. That was almost 2 years ago and tbh it was the best thing I could do for myself. I still wanted the M in a strange way but I also did not want to paint myself into a corner any longer and accept what she was doing, because by doing that simply showed her it was 'ok'... as I stated several times to her I was not going to live in an open marriage.

Going back to something you said also made me think. "Did I lose myself"

I would guess yes .. I know I did but its similar to a cliff next to the ocean. Everyone sees that cliff is still there 20 years later, what the do not always realize is that ocean (life) punds into that cliff relentlessly and it slowly erodes away. Many of us are guilty of this ... we sacrifice personal things for the better of the marriage or the family, its a natural erosion and one that is just plain common. Doing this yeah we lose ourselves a bit and over the past 4-5 years I have discovered this. Now am I going to go and start partying like I did in my younger days .. no ... I have grown into someone else, someone better. I am a far better father now than I was 5 years ago, I removed non healty things from my life and continue to strive to improve and get better. Losing the old you is not always a bad thing if you frame it correctly.

Hang in there, now is the time to look out for yourself and your kids. She chose this life let her get a big taste of what its like without you ... she is already on OM2 who most likely has no idea whats going on. Let her loose on her own journey and focus on yourself and the kids.

[bttrfly]

Geez Gordie, I dunno how you are staying sane right now. God bless you and your family! What utter madness. So, let me get this straight - I thought the little kids didn't know? But she's bringing OM2 around? Disconnect there, not to mention lack of respect and all the other things which have already been stated.

She is completely out there, isn't she? I'm with Cali - she needs to leave. I'm also interested in this alimony thing and how it will affect you moving forward as Andrew noted.

I'm glad you're realizing that you are now both Mom and Dad. Tough place to get to, but it's best to be realistic for the kids' sake. Can you set up family counseling for the older kids? I'm glad they are talking to you about it. As hard as those conversations are, they do need to open up to someone. Ive witnessed exh shut our son down and it's not helpful to the kids when a parent does that.

You mentioned she's racked up more debt than was revealed. In our state if there isn't full financial disclosure then any agreement is up for change based on the hidden info coming to light. Might be a good thing that you didn't get this signed yet.

Gordie, cut off her access to your credit in any legal way you can - check with your attorney about how to do this. Stop the financial bleeding asap.

You are in the worst of it right now. It won't last forever, although it will feel like it will never end. Hang tough, you can do this for your kids and for yourself.

Are you getting some support for yourself also? Some therapy, or a group nearby? I'm so sorry Gordie, that this is happening to you and your family. You aren't alone. We're here for you. xoxoxoxo {{{{{Gordie}}}}}

[Gordie]

SBJ,

I am at a total loss for words too. I shake my head and wonder sometimes how did we get here? I have learned from all of you that this painful chapter is temporary and yes, there is some sort of peace that is out of my grasp now. I do think about how God is using this and think of the biblical Job. On the one hand, I have my health and children; on the other hand, he had his wife.

Brubeck,

Your story has helped me in my own journey as we both have long hours and young children in the mix. Like you, I am hurting for them as much as I am hurting for me. Due to the 2x4s here, I am going for max 50-50 time with kids and max flexibility at work. Who knows how it is all going to work, but I’m going to try my best for their sake. I do think in her own way she is trying to normalize everything that is going on. W is doing what she needs to do. Kids are fine. Everything is awesome! Why am I moving out? She wants the house. I don’t. Neither of us can afford it on our own. And re women? Yes, it’s nice to know I’m no dead.

AndrewP,

Non tax deductibility of alimony would be bad for both of us as it just means more money for the government and less for us. No idea if it will pass but if it does it only affects d signed starting in 2018. Yet another reason to get this signed.

Caliguy,

Wow, that is so helpful to hear. Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I am at that point now. I can’t put up with the crazy any longer. I have protected my paternal rights by staying until we are d but once that is done, I will quickly exit. I really can’t take this any longer. It will be a near term struggle but I will figure it out. I always do. I loved what you said about losing yourself and agree. I’m slowly finding the new Gordie and he is different from the pre M one and that’s more than okay.

Butterfly,

I have no idea what w has told the little kids. It makes me sick to my stomach but I can’t control what she does. I can only control me. Thinking of my children being co parented with a step BF or stepfather is too much for me right now, so taking it one day at a time. Get the d signed. Move on the the next chapter. We are financially separated so she is only hurting herself now.

[Gordie]

Journaling:

Lots of daily back and forth with the L. Had to make provisions for potential changes in tax law. It’s inching closer to the finish line. I can’t stand how much money I am paying but I have no choice.

Spending all of my home time with the kids and only see w in passing. She has been trying to initiate conversations and even physical contact (not sexual) and I’m just not very interested. I have also tried to be there for the kids in every way. More hugs. More rough housing. More ILYs. I have no idea how the kids move around the house when I am not there to give piggy back rides.

W has stopped her overnights this week and now tells me when she will be coming and going and has been cooking meals for the family. Good news is i am not mind reading or thinking this is any sort of meaningful change.

I am going to need more cash than I have now to move out and set up the new place for me and the kids. Question is do I take out a personal loan, take money out of retirement funds with tax penalties, or ask to borrow from friends (as my family has no money)?