How a treehouse can cost you your marriage

[joejoe1]

Clyde,

I'm not going to lie. Your story is one of the most heart breaking Sitch I have read on here. Your life is work and family. Where are your friends? Put in those amount of hours is back breaking and your Wife agreed. And you made time thru all of that wow. I applaud you!!!!!

I think it's time for Clyde to get some of Clyde back. I'm glad you work hard and provide for your family. How were you fulfilling your wife emotional needs?

Were you tired when you finished working to talk to her, make love to her (not sex), listen to her? You were waking up at 5 A.M. every morning. Man that's taxing. You need some alone time IMHO. Time just by yourself. It might not seem tight at the moment. But I know it will help you.

[MoveFrwd]

I was a very involved husband and father, at all t-ball games, school plays etc., helped with homework. In the evenings we all hung out as a family in the yard playing ball or something, for the first 14 years of our R my W and I usually had a beer together on the back pain in the evening discussing our day, we would always go to bed together. My wife got a bouquet of flowers almost weekly. If my W was going to costco or something like that most times I would take a break and go with & then make those hours up after the kids went to bed or get up earlier the next morning .

Im not saying that this isnt true. In my opinion, I could not work 60+ hours a week and still be a positive contributor to my family. Getting up and working from 530 AM to 6 PM every day would make me irritable and drowsy for all of the 'family time' you are describing. But, you arent me, so maybe you are good with it. I dont know.

My question to you is what do you want to get out of this board? Ive noticed every time I or someone else reads something from your story and gives you some opinion, you refute it quickly and give examples of how they are wrong. Thats fine, BUT. Your W is not here. Your W does not want to repair the relationship. So you want us to call her crazy or to say were sorry for all the [censored] youve been through. Then thats fine. You got dealt a crummy hand. Theres a lot of extremely repulsive stunts that she did and I commend you for still wanting to stick by this woman.

So what to do NOW?

I can guarantee you one thing. Your W is not going to come back to the same marriage to the same person. She isnt going to wake up one day and miss the times that you had and want to turn back the clock. The ONLY way to come back together as a couple is for YOU to change. First. If you can truly become a person that only a fool would leave, then you have a chance at a lasting successful reconciliation.

So what are you going to do differently? What changes are you making now? You have to dig deep and peel back the layers on yourself to really understand your own missteps.

That doesnt mean youre a bad guy. The analogy that helped me understand my faults was that I was trying to build something (lets say a cabinet ), but I didnt have the right tools. Is it my fault when the cabinet breaks? I mean, maybe - I didnt know the things I didnt know. Thats what we are trying to do - help you to see your actions and behaviors from another perspective to really learn about yourself and where you can improve.

So where do you think those areas are?

[joejoe1]

Clyde,

Kaizen bring up great points. We are not here to rag on your W. We are here to help you to find the problems in your M. How can you work to fix those problems from your side of the street, and get to a healthy place for yourself. There will be stern advice here. Some will seem hardcore, like when Sandi 2x4, some will seem compassionate, like when 25 gives advice, but none of them will bash or make your W the problem.

All the advice given is for you and not for you W. Making yourself a person only a fool can leave, doesn't involve any help or work from your W. This journey is all yours my friend. Buckle up, and get ready for the ride. We all on here have commonalities, but each sitch is different. Not all advice given on your Sitch will apply to your Sitch, that's why it is real important for you to understand the problems you caused from your W perspective, that way you can do successful 180s. Give her space, you need space as well. Healing takes time!!!!! You M didn't get to this point because of a Tree house, it took years, and it might take months and years to get to a healthy M.

[AnotherStander]

I can guarantee you one thing. Your W is not going to come back to the same marriage to the same person. She isnt going to wake up one day and miss the times that you had and want to turn back the clock. The ONLY way to come back together as a couple is for YOU to change. First. If you can truly become a person that only a fool would leave, then you have a chance at a lasting successful reconciliation.

Exactly right, very well said!

Clyde, please understand I only post here to try and help people. I don't do it because I like to hear myself talk (or see myself type). Some people are open to help and others are not. Right now you fall firmly into the latter camp. You don't want help, you don't want to change. You want us to tell you your wife is crazy and she'll "get well" some day and come back and everything will get back to normal. But she doesn't want that M, who would? Who wants to be married to someone that works 60-100 hours week in and week out? No one! As Kaizen said, that doesn't mean you're bad or evil or want to hurt anyone. Clearly that's not the case. You obviously love your family, even the hours and hours you were pouring into your work you saw as being for them (although it's very unlikely they saw it that way). But you can't continue being in denial about this, because doing so prevents you from growing and changing.

Kaizen bring up great points. We are not here to rag on your W. We are here to help you to find the problems in your M. How can you work to fix those problems from your side of the street, and get to a healthy place for yourself.

This also is great advice. Your W has done some terrible things since BD, and there's no excusing that. But what we're trying to focus on is the M and where things went wrong BEFORE BD. BD is nearly always preceded by months or years of suffering by the WAS, so we try to get at the core reasons of why they were suffering and focus on what the LBS can do 180's on. 180's are one of the supporting columns of DB'ing.

[Sotto]

Hi Clyde, just reading Another Stander's thoughtful post above - I wondered if it might be helpful to read the book His Needs Her Needs. It was a real eye opener to me how different the needs of guys and gals are in relationships. I read the gal stuff and completely identified with it. Then I read the guy stuff and I thought - really??

It certainly gave me some food for thought about how I would approach a future relationship. Working long hours was mentioned and I've certainly seen that before on the forum. Guys in good faith and feeling like they are supporting their spouse and families - providing - but of course working those kinds of hours also means absence and lost time together. It's a tough balance I think..

Sounds like you are getting some wise advice from posters. I agree with AS - yes, your W may have done some stuff - and that's on her and up to her. Is she I'll? Will she change and repent? Who knows. She is a person with free will, and she will do what she will. You have limited influence there - although DBing can help you survive this. But it helps by focusing on you - the part where you have 100% control. Cope, survive - thrive.

I can remember reading about the DBing approach when I was in a deep pit. XH had left and was with OW and I remember thinking - what do I do now??!! how can I fix this??!!

I liked that DBing is a win - win approach. You cannot lose. Either you will successfully get to the other side of this and go on to live a happily single life, or start a new R from a healthy place - or your spouse will choose to return to a 'better' relationship. Either way, you win..

I remember the penny dropping - okay I fix me. Fixing me may fix this - but either way I'm fixed & that's good. That's where to focus. We are all individuals with many talents, flaws and baggage - often from childhood and these are great places to look at.

Best of luck to you

[Clyde]

Kaizen , joejoe1, AnotherStander,

What I’d like to get out of this board is 2 things:

1st - Support and encouragement (which I thank you all for already providing this in the few days I’ve had the thread), many of my friends and family think I’m crazy for wanting to save my marriage at this point, some have even told me they will never talk to me again if we do reconcile…

2nd - Advice (yes I understand that includes constructive criticism and welcome it). I’ve been reading this forum for a few months and have learned a lot from it. While I have pursued and tried to fix since the moment the W mentioned D, over the past month and a half I refrained from it more than before, having not once gotten the W to engage other than to tell me what a horrible H I was (some of what she would say had validity, most did not), she finally started to genuinely engage in the conversations over the past week and a half. This threw me for a loop and finally lead me to start the thread as I was not sure whether or not to continue initiating the conversations, along with the family dinners, a.m. tea, etc. as we discussed in an earlier post

Yes I understand the W was not happy w/ the M, during MC I changed most of what she voiced, I say most as some of it was a simple decision I could make, such as never missing family dinner or church, some of it was habits that take time to curb, like letting things get to me and effect my disposition. During the last couple months she was still in the house I was doing a lot more around the house, from laundry, to cooking and grocery shopping. I know I still have a long way to go as far as being the best H I can be, but am more than willing to put in the work, and acknowledge my shortcomings.

I’m not saying the hours I worked did not take its toll on our family, I do my best to minimize the impact, I would also say that I don’t think I could do those hours if I was not able to see the family through out the day.

She has told me the hours I work and what is left of me at the end of the day was an issue, (as a matter of fact in our recent discussions she has said that was one of the main issues along with the uncertainty of me being self employed). That being said, when it did come up in the past she would also acknowledge that we really had no choice. I mentioned that she waitressed for a few short spurts but that it did not prove to be advantageous to our monthly income as when she worked I had to stay home with the kids. This is where the volatile discussions of her getting an education/career would come into play when we weighed our options. Shortly after the treehouse argument she did go to school, I thought we were both on the same page at that point in that when she finished her schooling she would have new work opportunities taking some of the load off me. That was clearly not the case as she asked for the D the same month she graduated. A few days after she mentioned the D I sat down with her and suggested we sell the house, BK what debt we were able to, I would get a 9 - 5, and if it meant we had to live in an apartment then so be it, lets simplify things. She wanted no part of that plan.

I don't know how i will GAL at this point, I have the kids 50% of the time, and getting as many hours in as I can when I don't have them. I know I need to find a way though.

Biggest visible 180 I have done is my appearance (court for the TRO also played a factor in this one) I cut my hair after having long hair for 20+ years, and shaved my beard for the first time since our wedding.
Biggest 180 I am working on with some good success, not engaging in arguments with the W, during our last disagreement I could tell she was caught off guard by my approach...thanks DB & DR.

[Clyde]

And so while she has said even recently that my work was a main issue, I completely get it, and don’t want to discount what part it played in all this, cause it did. I personally feel like there were some other factors that played a bigger part in our demise - that being the “sister” and friends (now if any of you think I am passing the blame feel free to let me know).

Prior to the last 2 years my W put me above her friends, we were best friends who confided everything with one another, thats how I know about all the affairs the “sister” and friends had. Then one night I was taken back by the W’s response to something she told me. She was telling me she was concerned about her “sister” she was in Vegas with some guy she met on one of those “sugar daddy” websites, I just laughed and shook my head as it did not surprise me. My W said “No you don’t understand, she had only just met the guy online a day or two prior, he offered to take her all expenses paid in exchange for her being his arm candy.” My response again was to shake my head and laugh, I told the W “thats what you call an escort” the W did not refute the escort comment, instead took the conversation to her concern about her “sisters” safety, being there with a stranger. After talking about her safety for a few minutes I asked the W, “wait a minute, isn’t she living with “whats his face” (her boyfriend at the time, - I’ll leave his real name out of it), the W said yes, she is. Again I shook my head but did not laugh this time, instead I said that is f’d up, poor "whats his face", to which I expected the W to agree as she would of in the past. The wife did not agree it was f’d up, instead ripped me apart for judging the "sister" and did not talk to me for the rest of the night. BTW “whats his face” is now the “sisters” husband as of a few weeks ago.

Over the past year I have read many text of the “sister” & friends talking bad about me to the W, encouraging her to steel money, to ignore what the MC was telling her, to ignore what our Pastor was telling her, to get out, and so forth.

[MoveFrwd]

Yes I understand the W was not happy w/ the M, during MC I changed most of what she voiced,

I listen to a weekly women's podcast and one of the things I hear them repeat a lot is "It isnt my job to tell you what to do every time something needs to be done." In this week's episode, they were venting about their husbands asking for reminders on the schedule day by day.

The reason I bring this up is that I am sure that the things that came up in MC that she wanted you to change werent new. And Im sure that it wasnt an exhaustive list. If she listed 5 things and you did exactly those and no more, no less, then it isnt sincere and it isnt lasting.

YOU need to be the one to reflect and dig to identify the things you want to do proactively...whether she sees it or not.

For example, what are you doing to sustainably change your daily routine so that you arent working 60-100 hour weeks? What are you doing about your attitude in the off times? and so on. It doesnt matter if or when she sees it - these are changes YOU need to decide to have successful relationships going forward.

During the last couple months she was still in the house I was doing a lot more around the house, from laundry, to cooking and grocery shopping. I know I still have a long way to go as far as being the best H I can be, but am more than willing to put in the work, and acknowledge my shortcomings.

Are you? In the very next post, you go into how most of the situation isnt your fault?

Where is the detail of your internal audit? Where is your checklist for what YOU are going to do different / better?

By the way, Sandi talks a lot about 'super husband mode' where the H does all of the housework to show how helpful he can be. She points out that this is often a backwards step as it reinforces a lack of respect from a WW. I know it's too late for that advice to really mean anything, but just a tip for the future.

She has told me the hours I work and what is left of me at the end of the day was an issue, (as a matter of fact in our recent discussions she has said that was one of the main issues along with the uncertainty of me being self employed). That being said, when it did come up in the past she would also acknowledge that we really had no choice.

There is ALWAYS a choice. You just collectively decided this was the best choice. But Ill bet if you went back and looked at it, youd see other options and maybe a different one was more desirable. For example, maybe you each work a typical 9-5 job and come away with a similar pay, but the workload is more balanced and the overall mood in the house is better? I dont know.

But let's say by chance she does come back. What would be different going forward?

I thought we were both on the same page at that point in that when she finished her schooling she would have new work opportunities taking some of the load off me.

I know you dont see it yet, but in your writing, you drop hints like this that give a lot of insight into your opinion of the division of labor in the house. You say you didnt do any real amount of housework until 'the last couple months', but at the same time, you are expecting her to do more in order to 'take the load off of you'. Where is the plan for you to take some of the home load off of her? Like I said in previous posts, it reads like you value her contributions less. You say you dont, but if Im picking it up several times within a few paragraphs, how do you think she perceived your attitude and comments?

That was clearly not the case as she asked for the D the same month she graduated. A few days after she mentioned the D I sat down with her and suggested we sell the house, BK what debt we were able to, I would get a 9 - 5, and if it meant we had to live in an apartment then so be it, lets simplify things. She wanted no part of that plan.

See? Options!

I am sure her frustration is that it took until she was ready to work out the door for you to make this kind of offer. What about all of the months in between the treehouse and MC and this point?

I don't know how i will GAL at this point, I have the kids 50% of the time, and getting as many hours in as I can when I don't have them. I know I need to find a way though.

Maybe it's time to consider a more sustainable path? If you cant GAL now....it wont get any easier in the future.

[joejoe1]

Clyde,

Kaizen make great points. From reading your last post, I gleam from you that doing less work is not an option. If you want to make your M or R better, you are going to have to figure out a way to take the load off yourself. Your work is self induced. I feel you on providing for your family financially, but that's is not the only need they need. Emotionally are you providing. Is there a balance being provided between financial and emotional? If not a change has to come from you.

I also see and read from your last post a lot of, "my wife share fault in the demise of the M". Which is true, but like multiple posters and vets have told you, this journey is about you. You wife have her faults, no doubt, but focusing on those won't help you in this journey. What are the changes you need to make, to make yourself better, for this M or a future R?

Another question, is working all those hours worth losing your M? If the answer is no. Then you have a tough decision ahead.

I can tell you feel over worked, and under appreciated. I did as well, but me feeling that way don't fix the problem. If you want your M to work you must find a lasting solution.

[Clyde]

Kaizen.

I have no idea how you guys are getting the "originally posted by: quote boxes" so please excuse my elementary way of doing it...

You ask: Are you? In the very next post, you go into how most of the situation isnt your fault?

Yes I am acknowledging my short comings... with all do respect, my short comings and the roll the friends played in it are 2 different factors, you can't tell me you do not see how the friends played a significant roll in this. So yes I am human and have short comings, no addictions, no abuse, my actions regarding how to provide were always with the family's best interest at heart. When the W's "sister" and friends are talking bad about me, when they are telling her the she should not love me, not give what is a solid relationship the chance it deserves, especially when the W is telling them how much effort I am putting into the relationship and how much she loves me, is all ill advice that had a significant impact on the R and the W's willingness to work on it. All that said I still understand the only thing I can control are my actions.

You said : If she listed 5 things and you did exactly those and no more, no less, then it isnt sincere and it isnt lasting.

Mind you she dropped out of MC when she got caught in several lies. Why did she feel it necessary to lie? One of the lies she got caught in was about stealing money, I found out she was doing so by reading about it on her phone it in a text from her friend who was encouraging it, (again, the damn friends meddling in our M). I continued to go to MC for an additional 4 months after she stopped going, I still meet with our pastor weekly to get advice on life, the M, and to nurture my growth as a person... I did not take her list as an assignment I could blow through and move on with life.

You ask: Where is the detail of your internal audit? Where is your checklist for what YOU are going to do different / better?

I could of handled all of or altercations over the past 2 years better, some of the arguments I engaged in were pointless and some of my reactions to things that were said or done did not help our relationship, rather hurt it.

As far as the work load, I never surrendered my self to that scenario, I am constantly trying to improve the sitch... be it by investing in new machinery, implementing new methods and so forth. We live on the outskirts of San Diego, the cost of living is ridiculous here, no car payments, no extravagant living. The biggest step toward improving this scenario was the wife going to school which we never got to see the benefits of in the R, (her going to school was something we both made happen, I ran the house 2-3 days a week for close to 2 years, while still being the sole provider along with expenses that came with the schooling.)

I am a passionate person, leaving my work in the shop has been a hard habit to break and has undeniably had effects on my interactions with the family at times, (at times... were not talking daily). This is something that has gotten much better over the years, I figured out long ago how my demeanor can set the tone for the night, that being said, even though it has gotten better its something that I'm working on to this day.

In the past if I was driving and someone cut me off, I would have the normal reaction of a few choice words or the good ole bird, this was something the W expressed her disapproval of, so now a days I smile and wave.

You state: I know you dont see it yet, but in your writing, you drop hints like this that give a lot of insight into your opinion of the division of labor in the house. You say you didnt do any real amount of housework until 'the last couple months', but at the same time, you are expecting her to do more in order to 'take the load off of you.

Absolutely not, When she was going to school I held the house down, she always came home to a clean house, laundry done etc... I never said in this thread or to my W that she needed to take on more, just as I did when she went to school and the few times she did work, we discussed how I hold the house down when she worked.

You state: I am sure her frustration is that it took until she was ready to work out the door for you to make this kind of offer. What about all of the months in between the treehouse and MC and this point?

I make good money, being the sole provider in this area is not common, I still feel as though I personally did all I could do given what I had to work with. She refused to get an education/career until recent, even if she worked a 9-5 waitressing or something in that realm, 90% of what she made would of gone to daycare, in which case my 9-5 would not of cut it. Again she even acknowledged this in the same recent conversation were she said my work load was an issue. Now that you have a better understanding of how I did, and would take household responsibilities off her, does it not seem logical that the best thing for the M is for her to do the career path?

This is the irony on my work load being an issue and her timing of the separation, she finished school, lets see how the dynamic of an additional income effects the sitch.