My Wife wanted to live with her parents

[AnotherStander]

But the wife said it would be permanent and they would be living with us forever. Screw that, I said.

I can understand your concern about that. Sometimes when we marry we marry into things we didn't want or anticipate. Sometimes we can live with them and other times they're a deal killer. In my case my in-laws who lived a thousand miles away suddenly moved about 50 miles away so they could spend more time with W and our kids. THAT for me was OK, but like you I would have had an issue with them moving under the same roof, even though I love them to pieces!

Her family was important to her such that she said that they ranked higher. I was "at fourth" in her list of priorities. She was threatened saying that if I didn't leave, that she would. In the end she said she would take legal action to have me removed. I had enough. My self-respect prompted me to leave. Hardest decision.

It sounds like this situation was a deal-killer for you. I don't see anything in your posts about you really loving your W or wanting her back? I'm a little confused on what your goals are? Clearly you miss your D and want more time with her, but what about W? Sounds like you have a lot of resentment over her ranking you below her family, I totally get that. But you not only left her, but you left the country so I guess I'm just wondering what your goal is in coming here for help? I'm just asking so we can better tailor our suggestions.

If I had submitted to her yoke and stayed, my balls would have been truly cut off, and any respect from her will probably be gone as I was reduced to a servant for her family.

My W wanted her mom to live with us for a while when our first kid was born. I was like "oh noooooooo" but she was retired and I was working and I certainly understood my W's need for some more help while I was at work. I had a lot of concerns about her being there all the time but it turns out my fears were completely unfounded. She was an absolute Godsend, she helped with our D, she watched her while W slept, she cooked us meals, and she completely honored our time together when I was home from work. She would sit in the corner and knit and give us all the together time we wanted. A lot of times what we fear is the unknown, but the reality of it usually isn't nearly as terrible as we imagine.

My daughter will eventually grow up and learn that her mother is a dictator and there'll be another conflict between them as she discovers that her father was shafted from the home and her own family destroyed.

I sure do hear a lot of anger and resentment towards W in your words, is that what you're feeling? Again if you could just state what your goals are that would help.

[athas]

But the wife said it would be permanent and they would be living with us forever. Screw that, I said.

Thank you for your responses.

I can understand your concern about that. Sometimes when we marry we marry into things we didn't want or anticipate. Sometimes we can live with them and other times they're a deal killer. In my case my in-laws who lived a thousand miles away suddenly moved about 50 miles away so they could spend more time with W and our kids. THAT for me was OK, but like you I would have had an issue with them moving under the same roof, even though I love them to pieces!

Initially I believed they would be like other families, but over the years it became apparent that they were too insular and close knit to the point there was no individuality in that tribe. Her plans were not only to get her parents in our home, but her grandmother as well, and anyone else that wanted to immigrate to America. No, not way!

Her family was important to her such that she said that they ranked higher. I was "at fourth" in her list of priorities. She was threatened saying that if I didn't leave, that she would. In the end she said she would take legal action to have me removed. I had enough. My self-respect prompted me to leave. Hardest decision.

It sounds like this situation was a deal-killer for you. I don't see anything in your posts about you really loving your W or wanting her back? I'm a little confused on what your goals are? Clearly you miss your D and want more time with her, but what about W? Sounds like you have a lot of resentment over her ranking you below her family, I totally get that. But you not only left her, but you left the country so I guess I'm just wondering what your goal is in coming here for help? I'm just asking so we can better tailor our suggestions.

I loved her enough to chase her around the globe and then dismantle and end my career in Australia to follow her to America. But she just kept on with the demands. I loved her till the last day. And I still love her today. Yes, I left the country because America is not my country and I have no rights there. She was threatening me with police if she didn't get her own way, and in the end she threatened legal action. The rage coming from her was immense, the belittling, ranking me low in the hierarchy, saying that she was eager to become a single mother (which stumped me). Anyway, I didn't want to see what happens when the American cops come knocking on your door and your wife is crying about how scared she is. I had to return to the safety of my own country. Honestly, Australia is a better place.

My goals:
A restoration of my family.
My wife to realise we are better off as a two-parent household.
My daughter to live a stable life.

If I had submitted to her yoke and stayed, my balls would have been truly cut off, and any respect from her will probably be gone as I was reduced to a servant for her family.

My W wanted her mom to live with us for a while when our first kid was born. I was like "oh noooooooo" but she was retired and I was working and I certainly understood my W's need for some more help while I was at work. I had a lot of concerns about her being there all the time but it turns out my fears were completely unfounded. She was an absolute Godsend, she helped with our D, she watched her while W slept, she cooked us meals, and she completely honored our time together when I was home from work. She would sit in the corner and knit and give us all the together time we wanted. A lot of times what we fear is the unknown, but the reality of it usually isn't nearly as terrible as we imagine.

These are third world people. They care for nothing but 'getting to America', and using my finances was okay in chasing that ambition. America's halcyon days were in the 70s and 80s ... not now. I believe they put zero thought into how expensive it is, and they were actually better off living with their much bigger family in their nation of origin.

My wife had zero honesty/transparency in terms of finances. I discovered that she was paying for her parents' health insurance when they lived down the street at the brother's place, but she was telling me that her salary was not covering our living expenses. I kept telling her that America was not for us and we need to return to Australia where we were better off.

My daughter will eventually grow up and learn that her mother is a dictator and there'll be another conflict between them as she discovers that her father was shafted from the home and her own family destroyed.

I sure do hear a lot of anger and resentment towards W in your words, is that what you're feeling? Again if you could just state what your goals are that would help.

Anger and resentment. Absolutely. That restrained anger and resentment I feel will pale in comparison to that felt by my daughter when she grows up to realise her mother shafted her own father from the home, thus reducing them to poverty and a fatherless household. The rebellion will be strong when she hits her teens. Again, my goal is to prevent this outcome, give her a decent life, with the father that she deserves.

I didn't realise that I had to get all soppy on this forum and communicate my love for my wife. I do love her. I don't accept her choices and the single-minded and misguided goals that she has. I know expressing my anger to her didn't work and won't work. Our bare-bones communication is very limited and centres around our daughter and organising Skype calls that occur every second or third day. My daughter is too young to make the call so my wife facilitates. I call them 'our family time'. So, my goal is how to get my wife to turn around to realise a life with me is better than being the lone support for her family that are really dragging her down like an anchor.

[athas]

Again, it looks like I messed up my last response. It appears I need some training in writing posts on internet forums.

[athas]

So, it's been six months since I left, living in my boyhood bedroom, but things are looking up as I have already gotten a job offer and will return to Sydney to recreate my life.

The main thing now is how do I behave towards my wife to maximise the chances of her returning to me? This is my goal. Advice would be welcomed.

I should add, there was no physical violence, cheating or abuse, just her demands and my stubbornness in giving her what she wanted, that is, a selfless life where I live some communist dream of giving myself for others rather than for my family.

[JujuB]

This is a tough situation. Mostly for your daughter, whose parents now live in different hemispheres. And i get youre frustration and anger.

A lot of it sounds like cultural misunderstandings. I have family members that married spouses of a different culture and it definatly involves compromise from both sides.

I remember hearing when their newborn arrived, that it was common place to send the newborn to live with grandparents (in a different country) while both parents went to work! As a mom in the states, the thought of that makes my heart race...just like the thought of living and supporting your in laws does with you.

And here's the thing, you're perspective is telling you that you are right. That it's ridiculous and unfair to have your in laws move in...but her perspective is different. She can't understand why your so opposed. She is obviously family oriented but to a whole other level.

Maybe her culture has some merit. Think of how nice it would be to know that when YOU get old, you're daughter would take you in as opposed to having you live in a subpar nursing home in the third world country that America will probably turn into.

But regardless of whose perspective is right. There's something more important at stake here, and that is you're daughter.

I don't think she's going to resent her mom for pushing you out. She's going to See it as her dad left and moved to another continent. Personally, I would live in a card board box if it meant having more access to my child.

So rather then looking at which is the best place to live, I would look at it as how can I best serve my daughter.

Being present in your daughters life needs to be a priority. The opportunity to be a father is truly a blessing.

[athas]

jujuB, thank you for your response. I can sense the empathy coming from you. Thanks again.

Indeed, my daughter is my priority. If she was not there, I would have dumped my wife ages ago as we had numerous issues, the main one being that she never had my back. For instance, I would come home from the office and confide in her the rough and tumble of office politics that I had to contend with, and she'd answer with, "you must have done something wrong. Be more nice!" A complete lack of understanding. And it was consistent.

When my daughter came along, that changed everything and I was committed to having a family. But my wife left me not once, but twice. That just set up a bad feeling that it was her and her family against me. And once in the U.S. (I liked America. Americans are nice people), she told me everyday that she would leave me again. I was getting pains in my stomach, it was that bad. An old proverb says, "better to live on the roof of a house with crumbs, than inside the house with a quarrelsome woman."

My parents were Greek immigrants to Australia. And even with that, when I consulted my own family on the situation, they all said that a family must have boundaries, and having parents live in the home is a no-no, ESPECIALLY in the early years of a marriage.

My daughter's only three, so she won't understand. Ever since I've left I have learned film making techniques, skilled up with Final Cut Pro, GarageBand, etc., on the Mac to make engaging videos (book readings, what is Daddy doing, etc.) then I upload them to youtube.

Sadly, America will eventually become third world whilst the lion's share of immigrants come from socialist countries across Latin America. The benefits of living in the U.S. were less than that of Australia. Healthcare was more expensive. Annual leave is only two weeks per year vis-a-vis four weeks in Australia. Australia has subsidised childcare, healthcare etc. We already had a few run-ins with the healthcare system and after facing the bills we paid, we had to think twice next time before going to the hospital because we didn't know how much would be covered by my wife's employer insurance plan.

My inlaws never went to live in the homes of my wife's other siblings when they had children. And why didn't the parents want to live at the brother's house down the street? Could it be that his wife was resentful of the fact that she was forced to move from San Antonio all the way to Seattle at a moment's notice to be with his parents and sister, whilst she was forced to live further away from HER PARENTS that live in Puerto Rico?

I guess I'm here also seeking the American experience. Is it really possible to live in Seattle (an expensive area) and support a child and your parents on a single income. Indeed my wife was already talking about the need to get up and move to a cheaper American city. And again seeking the advice of her family rather than discussing it with me and making our own decisions.

The other point here is that my wife had no respect for me. She did not value my opinion, leadership, or direction. Not only was I shafted from the family home, but I saw it as a 'reset button' for the relationship because if we ever did get back together, it would only happen once she realised my rightful place and she had some moment of epiphany. Otherwise, if this does not occur, then we have just another broken family. That saddens me.

[athas]

Towards the end, before I left, I said to my wife, "if you want to live with your parents forever, then you shouldn't have a husband." To which she instantly replied, "GO, THEN!!!"

I think she was trying to recreate her own childhood after her mother abandoned her and the family to pursue a career. She just up and left in the middle of the night without even a word. My wife did the same to me.

And it's the worst kind of selfishness when she thinks she deserves to have both her parents with her, but her daughter doesn't deserve to have both parents.

[JujuB]

(Hey, when I made the comment about America becoming a third world country, I was referring more to the stagnant wages and exploitation of working class and frustration with current administration. I was not trying to make a comment about immigration)

How long did you're wife leave you for the first time? Did you guys ever go to marriage counseling?

One of the things that's emphasized on these boards is to focus on what you can control...you. sure , your wife has sone flaws. But that's for her to deal with. You can't change her. But what are the things you need to work on for you right now? What can you do so you have more access to daughter? How can you positively reinforce boundaries?

[athas]

The first time my wife left was when she was seven months pregnant. She went back to Peru. I told her that I wouldn't follow her. As it got closer to the day of birth, I decided to fly over there to be present (for a few days), then I came back to Australia to work. When my daughter turned three months, we organised a family get together in San Francisco for three weeks. We lived there at airbnb. Then my wife went back to Peru and there she stayed until my daughter turned fourteen months. I told her to come to Australia, I would support her on my good salary, but she refused because she wanted to be with her family.

Then my wife came back to Australia because her employer said that she would lose her position. She came with her cousin. It only lasted seven months before my wife just up and left because of issues we were having and returned to Peru. We did go to counselling during this period, because she said I was the problem. She said she was perfect and didn't need counselling. It was all about changing me. I grew resentful. Some angry words were said. She left. I came home from work, and they were gone. Not even a note on the table. In the ensuing three months I told her that I would change, and change, and change. And she decided that we would get back together BUT she would not be returning to Australia because she received a job offer and a work visa to work in Seattle, and moreover, she was taking her parents with her.

So then she had me chasing my tail flying back and forth to the States. The last time I was there for six months and again she was talking about how I had to change. I had enough. I believe the marriage counsellor we had in Sydney was useless and only saw her side of things, and never held her to account for anything.

Answers to your questions:
I'm doing what I can to maintain contact with my daughter, Skype calls etc., but it's all facilitated by my wife who is out working. Sometimes, if my wife is working from home, she urges me to jump on a Skype call because my daughter is creating a ruckus about seeing Daddy. Makes me wonder what happens when her grandparents are taking care of her, and they speak zero english.

I'm a strong guy so I know how to take care of myself and get on with doing things which at this stage in getting my career back on track, setting up a home, getting on with my life. Sometimes my mind wanders into the long term as I see christmas after christmas passing by and my wife has no intention on coming to Australia, but instead going to Peru year after year to visit all their relatives there. And what of me? No family? As the years go on, can I date others? And which woman wants a man with a child already? And how will this hurt my daughter who ideally wants her parents to be together.

I guess the saving grace is the knowledge that if my daughter is educated in America, she will learn the Anglo-American culture with its individualism, and her english will grow in leaps and bounds as opposed to my wife's family - even my wife's english is very broken.

[JellyB]

Hey neighbour, I'm JellyB. I'm a Kiwi girl that found myself on the forum in March 2015. I don't post often Athas as there are better people here to offer you support and advice than me. But your posts hit a chord with me. Not sure why. Likely because your basically a cousin (my mother's Australian), I have a sister who lives in Sydney and I'm in the process of moving to live in the US.

JujuB, whose offerings and postings on the board I respect greatly, hit the nail on the head. There is a mass cross cultural divide between you and your wife. I know a little of Latin American family culture, with the many new Latin American immigrants coming to NZ to start lives. I have also taken an interest if Latin American and Hispanic culture to my impending move. My experience thus far is that family is not defined within the typical western model or notion of family. Like Maori and your Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islanders, People of the Pacific and large Greek, Italian and some Asian cultures there is no definition of family being just a husband and wife and children. Our current westernize model has been built only over recent times and not even historically true for us who have more European and/or Anglo heritage.

Collective or communal cultures (like the ones described above) engage in a shared experience, what is mine is yours and what yours is mine. We survive and live and flourish based on the success of the whole and not the individual. How you report your own values and beliefs about family are quite at odds with the person's heritage you chose to marry. No wonder you have such struggles.

I anticipate that when you met your wife her Latina ways of being were romantic, endearing, sexy, attractive and quirky. And you either thought i can live with the things that didn't sit right, or you thought you and/or time would change her. However what has happened from what your say in your posts; her culture, her way of being and living has left you feeling emasculated, feeling disrespected and controlled; and forgive me but the tone of your writing indicates to me, strong toxic feelings of anger and resentment.

Please know that I don't write any of the above to be hurtful and disrespectful. Just you will find on this board, that the most experienced amongst the posters here on the forum ( and you will be lucky to hear from them if they read your posts) will give little regard to what your wife is and isn't doing. They will ask you about you, and your role, about what you are prepared to do differently to have the hope of repairing your marriage and reuniting your family.

JujuB has posed some important questions. To do this work Athas, to really do what it takes to potentially save a marriage, your need to leave ego at the door, suck up some hard to swallow stuff and be willing not to be right. Can you do that?

But the most important question and idea that JujuB raised however is more significant and in immediate need of being addressed. That is the geographical distance and therefore the emotional distance between yourself and your daughter. Your comments that your daughter is only 3 years old. Well while much of her initial brain and emotional development is well and truly established, her brain is a sponge right now and recording everything to use later on. Feelings of abandonment are well experienced by children of this age. Your daughter does not have the cognitive reasoning and emotional mastery to make sense of her situation, she does however have an emotional memory of discomfort at losing or changing attachments. Your coming and goings are likely to be unsettling to her. ( yes I realise that your wife has been moving her across the planet too- but I don't get to talk to your wife, I only have access to you.)

If you want to know the impact of an absent and angry parent and what that does to children, there is dad here on the board (JK5 I think- he's had a name change I think so I am not certain) who has 5 boys whose mother has made the kids lives extremely challenging by her geographical distance, irregular contact and high conflict divorce proceedings. Be careful you don't turn into her, to prove a point about how you don't want to live your wife's extended family. (Please know I am aware there is more complexity here than that - but sometimes we do have to remind our egos that we are better than that).

Athas there is a lot of pain here on the board due to parents (WAS) who have absented themselves from their children's lives in order to rid themselves of partner, spouse or marriage they no longer want. There are parents here who are begging for the walkaway spouses to engage with their kids and make the effort to stay, or to at least remain involved in a serious way. From how you talk there is a choice here for you to be close to your daughter. Will you give your daughter what many here can't???

Careers and money and materials things can be built. Building a child's self esteem confidence and sense of self is priceless. Would you really give that up for the inconvenience of having to live in a different country and tolerate extended family members, who share a common love of your daughter.

Look I'm a straight talker, I often offend people with it. But I write wanting the very best for you and your family. Keep posting, people will come. Write on other people's threads that will give you even more insight and understanding.

I wish you well. Love and Light


JellyB