WW in PA: Threaten to tell kids? Confront OM?

[hoosjim]

Hi Ginger, really appreciate your input, and your points about collateral damage from exposing the A as well as about my own wife's culpability are well taken. However, you are completely wrong about this guy not being a predator. Not sure how much of my background you read, but Late last Summer/ early Fall I went to my then-friend about my marital troubles. While I had not experienced the dramatic awakening then that I have since DB,I HAD realized that things were not good... I just didn't know what to do. He (now the OM)used that information to make his move on my wife. He was methodical and intentional about it... Starting out by "accidentally" finding and friending her Facebook page while "looking for another person he knew named __________" (a blatant lie he knew no such person and my wife's name is pretty unique), proceeding to calling her to "get ahold of _____ (me) because he's not answering calls or texts" to inviting her out with us and then telling her she should get her girlfriends to come to that particular bar for their "girls nights" (which is exactly what happened). He was then in perfect position to be a sympathetic ear to her via text, phone, and socially, and shower her with the attention and such that he now knew she craved and which she was completely vulnerable to. He is a good talker, a funny guy, and would constantly be telling her "isn't it better talking to me and laughing thrown talking to your husband and crying", and using things I'd told him in confidence and/or twisting my words to make me look bad with her.

Lots if signs I should've seen in retrospect lije how he qas alqays ogling and commenting on married women, usuallyother sports team mom's but.. yeah... dud was most certainly a predator, even recognizing my wife's own culpability.

On exposure generally... is there no merit to throwing that out here as a threat to maybe make them think twice, even if you never go through with it?

[Ginger1]

I stand corrected, he is a predator of sorts. I guess my point being it is neither here nor there when it comes to your M. Your W made her choice, she is a grown woman. He is clearly not your friend and just a crappy person.

As far as exposure as a threat? Do you want to threaten your W back home, or do you want her to come home and recommit to the M because it's what she truly wants to do?

[hoosjim]

Re: my wife? The latter, without question. Re: the OM? I want him out of the picture however I can get him. Threats, no threats, act of God, whatever. Because no "recovery" from her waywardness and no "work" on us will happen (and obviously in that order) until he is out of the picture. IF she chooses to cut contact (more on this in next post) then I want as little outside disruption as possible. If I can get this clown to back off, maybe it incrementally improves our odds.

[JRuss]

I know it's illegal, but have you considered kicking his a$$?

[hoosjim]

So, I actually DID manage to have the "cut contact" talk with W late last night. (She woke up from her sleep). Short sweet, to the point: "What I told you last week wasn't about making a final decision on "us", was about a decision by you on continuing contact with OM. I know what has ben going on, and I am not willing to live in an open marriage or indeed for you to continue to have any kind of contact with the OM while you are living under this roof. If yoy are hoing to stay i need you to cut all conract, and I need an answer by tomorrow (meaning today/Tuesday)." She said she understood but also stuck to party line that it was not an "A" and that contact had been getting less and less and was almost down to nothing. (Not true, at least as of laSt Thursday when she met him at bar.) I merely reiterated my stance that all contact had to stop.

So, today she has been very text-y. Somewhat more so than usual. No hint of any anger, etc. Texts nothing critical just "how is your conference going", "how is so and so doing", etc. I have responded "in kind", by being cordial but not any more wordy than she is being. Should I be being more standoffish, though? Don't want to be a jerk or anything, but want to keep an appropriate distance, too.

Also, how do I handle tonight if she "agrees" to my terms? I am inclined to ask for some transperancy (ie give up the cheater phone, exchange social media passwords, etc) as well as some assurances about where and when she will go out (obviously NOT to the OM's regular hangout- a potential problem since this is also her wayward best friend's favorite hangout). Also, not sure I can/will even tris her since she hasn't even fully acknowledged the A and has been VERY secretive all along. Should I be prepared to do a little snooping/monitoring (which I am capable of with fairly little risk)?

Also, if she tells me she wont cut contact, i think my path is clear: "okay, youre moving out of bedroom tonight and house asap... start thinking about what youre going to tell the kids because i am not going to lie for you." Beyond that, any tips on how to kick start her down the road to avoid any pasdive aggressive lingering in the household? Any other tips/thoughts for tonight's talk?

An interesting overlay will be her picking up her WW best friend at the airport tonight... whom I am sure will take the opportunity to trash me and tell her what a controlling loser I am.

Thanks, all!

[Ginger1]

Can you legally throw her out of the house?

[hoosjim]

Ginger, is that a serious question? Is there ever a "legal" basis to "kick her out of the house" in these situations? I can't imagine what such a basis would be, yet that is precisely what Sandi and the other WW gurus on this forum advise. I am assuming the hope is that the WW will elect to leave to avoid any ugliness, but... what if they dont? That is precisely my question. Would obtaining a lawyer (I am actually one myself though I don't do that sort of work) be the way to go? I am ready and willing to take this next step if she won't cut contact, but I want to be fully prepared so I can force the issue if need be.

What, exactly, are my options? (And, also, the continuing questions from my prior post about approaches and options for tonight's follow up conversation. )

[Ginger1]

Ginger, is that a serious question? Is there ever a "legal" basis to "kick her out of the house" in these situations? I can't imagine what such a basis would be, yet that is precisely what Sandi and the other WW gurus on this forum advise. I am assuming the hope is that the WW will elect to leave to avoid any ugliness, but... what if they dont? That is precisely my question. Would obtaining a lawyer (I am actually one myself though I don't do that sort of work) be the way to go? I am ready and willing to take this next step if she won't cut contact, but I want to be fully prepared so I can force the issue if need be.

What, exactly, are my options? (And, also, the continuing questions from my prior post about approaches and options for tonight's follow up conversation. )

It is a dead serious question. I've been on these boards a lot longer than my join date says. I've seen it all.

I am posting to you because I see the most common misunderstandings and reactions coming from you that are common to the jilted spouse. It was common to me too.

Sandi does not advise to kick her out of the house. If she is on that mortgage, you have no legal recourse.

I suggest you really read up on boundaries. Boundaries are something only you can control. You can't MAKE her do anything because you feel what she did is wrong. Even if it is actually dead wrong.

You can't force the issue unless in your state there is a law where if the spouse cheated even though the house is legally theirs you can kick them out.

So what if she says "I'm not going anywhere?" Sure, get a lawyer, but I would study up the law in your state. Your could also tell her to leave the MBR. But if she doesn't, then you need to be prepared to stay or leave because you can't force anything.

Everything you keep stating you want to do might feel good initially, but isn't going to accomplish much.

I keep following up with you, because when you had that get out/no contact convo, you did not have her possible responses planned out and what your boundaries were. You were just dying to get it off your chest.

The point is, think about what happens before you make demands you can't make her do.

[hoosjim]

Ginger thanks, but then what do I do? I have some leverage because she has not been exposed, but do I want to go there? What do sandi, et al, advise when you have no legal recourse to push them out of the house? ME leaving sounds like it would be completely counterproductivem

[sandi2]

Slow down some. I can't keep up with your spinning mind.

I can't imagine what such a basis would be, yet that is precisely what Sandi and the other WW gurus on this forum advise. I am assuming the hope is that the WW will elect to leave to avoid any ugliness, but... what if they dont? That is precisely my question. Would obtaining a lawyer (I am actually one myself though I don't do that sort of work) be the way to go? I am ready and willing to take this next step if she won't cut contact, but I want to be fully prepared so I can force the issue if need be.

Just for clarification, I do tell the H he needs to be prepared at point of confrontation for a possible S/D. B/c of the WW's defiance, he has to expect more than just announce that he knows.....and it automatically ends the A Once he states his boundary of not being willing to live with a third party in the M.....if the WW still refuses to stop contacting OM and/or lies about her activity....then the H should carry through with physical separation (not in-house stuff).

Please don't tell the OM this ^^^^^^^^. He is not your friend, does not care how you feel, does not have your family or W's best interest at heart, and he is not an honorable man. Do not tell him that you plan to expose him!!!! That will defeat the purpose and tip your hand so that he can discredit you before you can make anyone believe what you say about him.

Sandi, so your comment raises an interesting question in me: Do you know of an particularly effective ways to expose a single OM who is cheating with your W? He has kids of his own from a previous marriage and adultery is still against the law where I live... could I put his custody at risk? (Somehow I doubt it since his first marriage ended from his infidelity yet he still got the kids.) Have him prosecuted for adultery? (This would implicate my wife, though, obviously.) Would love to stick it to the predator SOB somehow but not sure what my options are. I DO have pretty good proof...

I don't know how you could effectively expose just the OM in the affair. He has to have a very good reason for someone not knowing about the affair, in order for him to give it up. If he's not married, then what would or who would he really not want knowing? I guess you could try to put the fear of God into him....if you could pull it off, but seriously, my suggestion is to seek legal advice about your options before you take any kind of action.

I've seen other H's who read something and jumped before he was grounded enough to know the full ramifications. We just can't possibly write everything for every scenario in one post. You are kind of bouncing from one bomb explosion scenario to the next explosion.....but do you have a plan? Asking questions is great source of learning, just don't react until you feel you have learned enough information, b/c you are ultimately responsible for your decisions. For example, you had set up a time to talk to the OM to warn him that you plan to expose him (which would not be wise to warn). For the future, don't give advanced notice to the enemy!

Maybe the extra reading has you feeling pumped and you are itching to verbally kick OM's a$$, but are you considering negative possibilities? I mean it might go as smooth as silk, IDK. I just want you to think about some possibilities. Exactly how do you picture OM responding to what you have to say? This has more to do than just him taking your W, doesn't it? While your confidence is up, you are wanting to approach him b/c you've carried around something from the past. Do you see this as your "chance" to let him have a piece of your mind? Do you think he'll even let you finish what you start out to say? Do you expect him to apologize for betraying you; bow out of the affair; or be afraid of what you could do with the information? It's not like he hasn't thought about it.....since the two of you were close friends. He knows you pretty well, right? And now, WW is alerted that you know she's cheating, so naturally she's going to convey this to OM. He's prepped and waiting for you.

Don't expect OM to give up the affair b/c he owes it to you or b/c he is scared of you. He's had a long time to observe you with your W.....plus he knows the problems, so he figures he has you pegged. Anyway, my point is that you have to be the man at home, and it usually starts by taking back your pants from your WW. That's where the trouble started. If you don't have the courage to take back your pants, then you won't ever feel like the man in your M and over your family/home.....even if you exposed the affair.

In most of the cases I've read on exposure, the WW is furious at her H for exposing the OM. So, be ready to face her fury, big time. You'll live, but just expect it. The last thing you need to do is expose and then apologize to your WW b/c you can't handle her wrath. Exposure doesn't just include just one person.

If you are seriously going to expose, you do it without any warning at all. There is a small window of time before they will hatch their lies and scheme around the exposure. If you warn them of your intentions, they will make sure nobody listens to what you say about them. See what I mean?

So, answer these questions. What do you really want to accomplish by exposing him? To whom do you want to expose the affair? Do you plan to cover up your WW's part in the affair? Once OM is exposed, so is your W. (I'm not saying to cover for her, just trying to pick your thoughts).

If you are out to ruin his public image/reputation, then always remember that he doesn't play fair and could go after you in other ways than just getting your W. So, stop and think what it is you hope to gain by exposing him.

Again, I would check with legal advice. Don't make threats or promises you can't keep.

I'm not trying to break your confidence, and I'm not saying you should not expose the affair. I am saying to think beyond the confrontation with OM.