WW in PA: Threaten to tell kids? Confront OM?

[hoosjim]

Thanks, Sandi. Do not know if you read my entire thread, but this is a bit stickier than just an OM... He was a good friend of mine AND a bit of a friend to the boys. Also, the affair has been ongoing for nearly 6 months. Finally, we have not even mentioned the word "divorce", and have not even really discussed separation. My W has been effectively cake-eating. She has not been manipulative and disrespectful apart from the A (yes, that is a biggie) but all the other signs-- addictive behavior, personality change, selective memory, extreme selfishness-- of a WW are all there. I do not want to "grant her a divorce"... I do not even want to go down that road. i DO, however, want her out of my bedroom and, ASAP, my house as long as the affair continues. My understanding of the WW playbook in that regard was to put my foot down and insist on contact being cut or she's out. Are you saying that if she refuses to cut contact I should immediately lawyer up or otherwise get into a divorce-preparation stance? Separation not enough? Be interested in your take on all of this, particularly given the additional color on the A with the OM and how, if at all, that would affect how you approach telling the kids IF, as I suspect she will, she "chooses" the OM. (Alot stacked against me here, including that her best friend is also currently a wayward-- with multiple infidelities-- who runs in the same circle as the OM and who has a VERY outgoing personality and VERY jaded view on marriage and commitment.)

Also, still interested in anyone's take on WON I confront the OM for a FTF talk before OR after talking to my wife. To reiterate, I do not think that this prospect will be a dangerous one. (Then again, I never thought the guy would try to steal my wife.)

[Cristy]

Another question regarding my stance with the kids when I "drop the bomb" on her: "Cut ties or move out of the marital bedroom (or even the house)". She will want me to present a "united front" to the kids that we "both agree that we can't work things out" and that it will be "better for everyone if we separate" or some such tripe... Which is NOT true. MY position right now is that we COULD try to work things out if not for the overlay of the OM she is seeing. We were actually making progress before they rekindled things. We have NEVER given "us" and "our prospects" the full and fair consideration they should be given, so I am NOT ready to say "we both agree we can't." So... What DO i say? I can "leave it up to her" what to tell the kids, of course, but... they are CERTAIN, at almost 17 and 18 years, to ask me. Consensus seems to be that I do not "Out" their mom re: the Affair. Do I just say "Your Mom and I are having some difficult times in our relationship and don't agree on how to resolve them.. I offered her some ideas to resolve them (or offered to go to counseling-- should I(?)) but she does not want to work on the marriage right now." Any other thoughts on how I should respond to her inevitable pleas/requests to cover up for her with the kids and as to how I should actually respond to the kids!

Thanks all! This is all very helpful!!!

Hello hoosjim,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

Michele has written an excellent article regarding what to tell the children. Please contact me directly and I will be happy to send you the link at no charge, of course.

The best advice I can give you is to call a Divorce Busting Coach today. Many of your online friends will agree that Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best advice on how to save your marriage and keep your family together. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[hoosjim]

Christy I've already had coaching thanks and it has been gelpfuk. Appreciate the offer but right now time is a bit short for me and I am really interested in getting some extra color from the forum contributors, particularly on my last questions.

[Cristy]

Christy I've already had coaching thanks and it has been gelpfuk. Appreciate the offer but right now time is a bit short for me and I am really interested in getting some extra color from the forum contributors, particularly on my last questions.

Hi hoosjim,

I'm glad you founds the DB telephone coaching to be helpful. Please email me directly if you would like the article by Michele regarding telling the children.

Cristy

[hoosjim]

Hi Sandi, thanks again. My response to you kind if got pushed down the thread so hoping it didn't get list in the shuffle. Wanted to get your take based on the additional color I provided, above.

Also wanted to get ANYBODYs take on whether I should first talk to WW and insist on cutting ties or whether I should first confront the OM, my former friend and remind him of all the harm he's causing and see if I can talk sense to him.

[TxHubby]

Hi Sandi, thanks again. My response to you kind if got pushed down the thread so hoping it didn't get list in the shuffle. Wanted to get your take based on the additional color I provided, above.

Also wanted to get ANYBODYs take on whether I should first talk to WW and insist on cutting ties or whether I should first confront the OM, my former friend and remind him of all the harm he's causing and see if I can talk sense to him.

I don't remember, is he married? If so, then confronting him may end this A pronto, assuming he wants to keep his marriage/family. Getting out of infidelity is an absolute must before you can save a marriage. It's impossible to work on a marriage that has more than two people in it and right now, yours does.

[hoosjim]

Well, today's the day. Going to make my first attempt since discovering the affair to have a man-to-man, face-to-face talk with the OM (my former friend). I am leveled, centered, and icy-cool. Hopefully he be where he usually is on Friday afternoons and I can put this bogeyman to rest. It will be a big load off my mind and I am hoping it catapults me forward and maybe, just maybe, kick starts some movement resolving my marital problems (which have stagnated) one way or the other.

Also, still interested in any input anyone has on what/how to tell the kids once I have the "cut contact or get out" talk with my wife. Sandi had some potentially helpful insights, above, but I was wondering if she had or anyone else had any additional thoughts based on the additional color I provided yesterday (what is now at the top of page 5 of this thread).

Thanks all! Being on this forum really helps!

[sandi2]

If you are not referring to what to tell the kids if you S or D...........what are you talking about? Telling them why she is not sleeping in the bedroom with you? If that is the case, why tell them anything other than there are problems in the M? These are young men, not little kids asking questions. I mean, when a couple of 17 & 18 yr old guys see their parents sleeping is separate rooms, they know something private is going on between their folks. If the issue is not resolved, then you can tell them more later, but be careful how much you disclose about their mother. Just knowing their mother is seeing another man, is strong information............plus, they will watch you to see how a man deals with this type of situation in his M.

Are you saying that if she refuses to cut contact I should immediately lawyer up or otherwise get into a divorce-preparation stance? Separation not enough? Be interested in your take on all of this, particularly given the additional color on the A with the OM and how, if at all, that would affect how you approach telling the kids IF, as I suspect she will, she "chooses" the OM. (Alot stacked against me here, including that her best friend is also currently a wayward-- with multiple infidelities-- who runs in the same circle as the OM and who has a VERY outgoing personality and VERY jaded view on marriage and commitment.)

I "thought" I was giving an example of what to tell the kids if you and W was breaking up. I must have gotten lost somewhere, IDK.

I don't really see sleeping in separate beds as a "separation", per se, unless both spouses declare it as a separation. There have been couples to resolve issues while temporarily sleeping in separate beds. However, I have never seen in-house separation result in reconciliation from members on this board, or IRL. Never! It prolongs the agony for the LBH and he loses more dignity and respect while having his WW flaunt her A in his face. Living in separate houses has succeeded in saving some M's. However, she will probably continue seeing OM, or other men........which would happen if there was an in-house separation, too. The difference being.......you don't have to see it every day if physically separated. If her friend is a WW, too, she has a lot of bad influence. Unfortunately, time and consequences for her decisions will have to change her mind. As long as she can cake eat, she will not be motivated to change her ways. In-house separation is the epitome of a WW cake eating.

Before worrying about what to tell the kids, you need to decide if you will S or D (if WW does not immediately stop contacting OM and her wayward friend. There can be no futher "friendship" with the OM's family and your family.

If you have to tell OMW that there will be no future socializing b/c of her H........then so be it. But it won't necessarily save your MR. Sometimes, the other wife is the last to know and is trying to maintain the foursome friendship (even trying to get her H and you to make up, b/c she is unaware of the truth), and it can be a very sticky situation if things are not immediately severed. Very seldom do I recommend exposure of the A, however, when the two families are close friends........I believe it is often necessary to inform the other spouse, and in your case, that may also include your two sons. If OM is involved in the lives of your sons, I would tell them that he is trying to break up the M.

I think it is a "man thing" to feel the need to talk to the OM about ending the A. If that's a shot to your ego to do it........so be it. When you consider that he is a dishonorable husband and friend, why expect him to do the honorable thing just b/c you approach him about an A with your W? You could threaten him, as some others have done in their situations..........but due to the friendship factor that existed, it could go very badly.

My thinking about talking to OM, exposing the A to his W, etc........is to not have the idea that they are going to do the hard & unpleasant work, instead of you having to enforce firm boundaries. In other words, whatever they decide to do, it will not "fix" your MR. It may end the A, IDK. It doesn't repair your MR, b/c there was something broken before she was involved in an A. I don't like the mindset some H's have about exposing the A, when they are too weak to enforce firm boundaries and want to rely on other people to fix things by forcing the A to end. You can't just sit back and reap a successful relationship with your W when all you've done is tattle. Exposure has worked in ending A's for some, but others have experienced very unpleasant results. I do not recommend broadcasting the A to everyone, especially your family members (unless divorce) b/c if there is a future reconciliation, the exposure will cause bad feelings between your family and your W. It is not easy for the W or her in-laws to resume a relaxed and warm relationship, once they know about the A. So, once it's out there, it involves more people and you can't take it back after it's exposed. If you choose to expose, be sure is not an act of vindictiveness, b/c it might come back to bite you.

I feel my post is a disorganized attempt to answer some of your questions. For that, I apologize. I often use the word "you" as if speaking to a group, so please bear that in mind when reading.

You are having to take in a lot of information during an emotionally intense time. Make sure you understand before making any quick decisions.

[hoosjim]

Sandi, thanks, that is a lot of information. For further clarification, the OM is NOT married... he himself is a single divorcee, so there is no OMW to get involved (unless his adultering with my wife might somehow threaten the custody he currently has of his OWN kids-- Adultery IS still a crime where I live). Also, cutting contact with the best friend who is also a wayward (and currently separated) will be very sticky-- they are lifetime best friends and right now are pretty much self-reinforcing each other every step of the way. My best friend, who is the spouse of my wife's best friend (complicated, I know) has come over all completely zen and is like "I can't be controlling, she needs to explore herself, if she gets it figured out and its meant to be she'll come back" and completely "trusts" her (they are, as I said, fully separated) and makes no critique of her wayward lifestyle.

As to broadcasting the A, that is not my intent. I have intentionally kept that "in hous" so as to provide a safe path back for my W if she should at some point want that. I do, however, want to make sure she understands the impact her continuing behavior could/will have on the kids and her relationship with them.

As to talking to the OM-- yeah, he's a scuzz, but he was my friend at one point, and I feel like there is some baggage there in my closet that is hampering me and that I can clear some of it by "facing my fear" so to speak. I also do want him to know that I am not "giving up my marriage", that I expect him to stay away from my kids, and that, call it a threat if you will, if I can find some way to expose him without hurting my wife and kids (say, to his employer or the like) I will absolutely do so. And, yeah, I do want to sit there and look the SOB in the eye and see if he can do the same. Perhaps a little ego, but my ego/confidence has improved substantially in the past several weeks and I'd like to see it continue to do so. Beats the alternative. Finally, maybe, somewhere in the depths of her wayward mind, my wife might gain a little respect back for me knowing I faced him down. I don't necessarily see things going very badly, as you say... I don't plan to rant and rave and threaten the apocalypse.

I know thoughts on this board vary a bit WRT WW's, but i DO believe that if the A can end, for whatever reason, we might just have a shot in therapy (after the end of affair withdrawal ends).

Out of curiosity, you talk about never having seen an in-house separation fix things with a WW... What do you believe the odds are, generally, on getting a WW back into the fold? In my case, I don't particularly like mine... My wife is 48 soon to be 49 (though looks much younger) so the "nesting/reproductive/good husband instinct" is pretty much gone. Because of her looks, she will DEFINITELY find suitors easily, even if this current A ends, and her best friend, as I mentioned, is also wayward and a VERY strong influence on her. Not to mention the approximately 10 years of neglect I heaped on her that opened the door for this whole sad, ummm... "affair." Honestly, the only thing keeping her around at all right now, I am pretty sure, is her fear of losing the kids. Very afraid that the odds are extremely long here. With God, I know, all things are possible but... this would be one king-sized bible-worthy miracle, IMO, if it worked out and we reconciled.

[sandi2]

What do you believe the odds are, generally, on getting a WW back into the fold? In my case, I don't particularly like mine...

If you will read my threads on WW's, you will see my answers to most of these questions.