Help - Setting Boundaries, WW in EA - Thread #3

[Woke_Up]

I'm not sure, but I'm about to find out.

Last night, looked at her phone and saw she had sent another pic of my D to OM. That is my red rag to a bull. So I sent OM a Skype from her phone with a picture of us, and said does it look like I'm an ex. I told W I had done this. I then followed up with a couple of texts to OM telling him he didn't get to pretend to be a knight in shining armour, he was an OM - she was having an affair, and the pretence was going to stop.

He hasn't replied to me but W sent me a text asking me to leave the 'poor guy' alone.

He has gone, for now...

So, this. Opening, the rage starts. Not unexpected. Took the rest of my clothes which were still in her 'new' room, threw them downstairs. I carried them up to the MBR. She then proceeded to trash the MBR - pulled drawers out, threw my clothes everywhere, ripped up the copies of 'not just friends' and 'love must be tough' by my bed, scattered the pages all over the floor.

She has also said it is over, we are finished..

Says she will make my life hell. When I get another gf she will sabotage it. Says she detests me. She wants me to delete all photos of her from my phone. I kept my cool throughout all of it. I have gone out of the house for a bit, brought my phone and laptop, maybe do some work. I have a week off before my new contract starts.

So at the minute, my actions have pushed her further away. This is not great, but I ultimate wasn't strong enough to take her continued infidelity, especially involving my D. If I hadn't snooped, I wouldn't have known, and this wouldn't have happened. Then again I was failing miserably at putting in place boundaries and detaching from her.

I feel lost now, but I know I have to weather the storm. This is what happens when you don't manage to DB I guess... anyway, it will get worse before it gets better.

[sandi2]

like yesterday evening she said again she wasn't going to leave me, and that she would end it and would need my help, to take her phones away or something like that... and within an hour, while I had gone out to buy dinner for the family, she had been on skype to OM telling him she loved him.

A couple of things here, it is her responsibility to end the affair. You can support her as she's going through withdrawals, but ultimately it is up to her. You could take her phone and whatever else she uses, but it would not prevent her from contacting OM if she wanted. She has put forth absolutely no effert. Telling you that you have to help her, and as soon as you get out the door she is talking to OM? She is not being genuine with you. She will continue to play you as long as it works for her.

Originally Posted By: sandi2
Just like your WW knows what she would do, too. I think those basic personality differences (for lack of a better word) have a lot to do with what separates the LBH and WW....and the dynamics in their MR. Yes, she knows she is treating you like cr@p, and she knows she would never stand for you to treat her the way she is treating you! Every single wayward woman has that mentality,b/c it comes from her own arrogance and disrespect.

Yes, while I agree, the issue of breaking up the family is what is different. She would keep the kids if it was the other way round. I would have to leave, she would get to stay in the house, and I would still have to pay the mortgage, as it is in joint names, and comes out of my bank account.

I wasn't really refering to "separates" as in breaking apart the family. I understand what you are saying here, and maybe you understood what I was talking about as the dynamics in the relationship with the LBH and WW. I hope so. In reading thread after thread from LBH's, I can see a pattern of these dynamics.

[Woke_Up]

A couple of things here, it is her responsibility to end the affair. You can support her as she's going through withdrawals, but ultimately it is up to her. You could take her phone and whatever else she uses, but it would not prevent her from contacting OM if she wanted. She has put forth absolutely no effert. Telling you that you have to help her, and as soon as you get out the door she is talking to OM? She is not being genuine with you. She will continue to play you as long as it works for her.

Yes, I agree, but she was making no effort. As you may have seen from today's post, I saw red last night, and have contacted OM. This has pushed W away and into rage, as she feels she has lost OM and that I am now the bad guy. He may return. he may not. I don't know. Have I made things worse? Potentially. Definitely for the short term.

I wasn't really refering to "separates" as in breaking apart the family. I understand what you are saying here, and maybe you understood what I was talking about as the dynamics in the relationship with the LBH and WW. I hope so. In reading thread after thread from LBH's, I can see a pattern of these dynamics.

Yes, I got what you were saying - I think my point is that from W's perspective, they get to keep the kids whatever happens, and probably the home. So they can generally force the issue if they won't put up with the disrespect of a PA or EA.
As a LBH, that is not so easy. I know, it's about detachment, but doing and knowing are very different things. As you say, my W is much better at playing the game than I am. I wanted to be able to distance myself, to treat her to tougher love, but it went so much against me that I couldn't do it effectively, and ended up blowing hot and cold, kept failing to protect myself. So I have now done what perhaps I should not. I think that me, along with many me, sometimes force themselves to do something rather than what feels like nothing, to break the status quo, even if it ends up being negative. Self reflection after the fact... a bit too late.

[Woke_Up]

Ok, so yesterday was pretty much as expected. Lots of spew, rage, anger and resentment aimed at me.

She had found my notes from my call with L when she dumped all of the things out of my work bag, and demanded an explanation. I explained that it was for my peace of mind, and what I had been told. I said she should get her own advice. She assumed I was plotting and just trying to make sure I could get as much financially as possible...

Plenty of rages, plenty of threats about ruining things with any future partner I may have, and trying to send manipulative texts to make it look like we weren't together... I made sure my answers didn't give any room for her careful editing, to send to OM.

This morning, she was a bit better. Said she had blocked 'her friend' on skype. She didn't resist physical touch, and I made her a coffee, brought it to her in bed.

Her mood deteriorated during the day, some spewing and insults, to pretty much ignoring me by bed time. I stayed in rather than training and bathed D4, got her to bed, read her a story.

W is hurting at the moment. I don't know how to help her through this. I don't know how strong she will be, or if she will try anything to get back the OM/EA. I gave SS16 a brief run down of what had happened when he asked why she was lying down upstairs with the door closed. Told him it wasn't going to be easy, wasn't sure if I could help her, and that she would be feeling like she had lost a limb.

It's weird - all of the pain and anguish I've gone through these last 6 or 7 months, and all I want to do is take her pain away from her. And at the same time I feel resentment that I am now the bad guy again.

She is desperately trying to exert control in our interactions - although this has been the norm for us anyway. I think she is feeling a double loss - control was taken away from her, and the loss of the OM while still in full limerance. She didn't get to do it on her own terms. But who knows how long that would have taken?

I'm resigned to weathering this storm, battening down the hatches, and any other nautical metaphors that are appropriate. I have to be careful in my demeanour now - if I seem too cheery to her (i.e. what I was trying to do before), this seems to make her irate, as if I am happy about what I have done, and am rubbing salt in the wounds. So, give her space. Be supportive where possible. But mainly, give her space.

[Gordie]

Okay, so you can't look like you are happy for what you have done? I'm opening a virtual champagne for you tonight! I defer to the vets if this makes things better or worse, but you did what you felt you had to do and I applaud you for that. Status quo is over, so what next? I'm praying for you. What did SS?

[DonH]

I sometimes cant believe what I'm reading! Your W is having an affair, lying to you, screaming at you, threatening to harm you both emotionally and perhaps physically and in return you bring her breakfast in bed? Am I really reading this correctly? I must ask you, are you seeing a therapist at all? If not, have you considered that? I think it might help you. What you are doing is not normal and is never going to get you to a healthy R.

Then on top of it you are involving a 16 year old child in this? SHAME ON YOU! In fact shame on both of you! This child has no business getting involved in this crazy dysfunction. What is the matter with you involving him and portraying that what his mother is doing is even remotely normal. What is this showing him?

I'm sorry to come darn so hard on you but I want to get your attention. This is not okay - any of it. I hope you can talk to a professional to get some clarity here as its badly needed.

[Woke_Up]

I sometimes cant believe what I'm reading! Your W is having an affair, lying to you, screaming at you, threatening to harm you both emotionally and perhaps physically and in return you bring her breakfast in bed? Am I really reading this correctly? I must ask you, are you seeing a therapist at all? If not, have you considered that? I think it might help you. What you are doing is not normal and is never going to get you to a healthy R.

Pretty much. I've always found it difficult to withdraw away during these last few months. And on Tuesday I used the excuse to myself that the EA is over (well at least for now) and she's going to be going through withdrawals. But you are right. It's not healthy, and there is a pattern of long term unhealthy interactions in our R. I haven't researched co-dependency yet, but I think I should as there may be elements of that going on. In answer to your question, I am not seeing a therapist. I was researching IC's in London where I work, but haven't made an appointment yet - I delayed, waiting to see where I would get my next contract. It's generally too late by the time I get home (7:15PM) to go to a local therapist or counsellor. Now my work is sorted again, I will set something up. I am looking for someone who is pro-R and also transactional analysis, as there are a lot of drama triangle interactions going on.

Then on top of it you are involving a 16 year old child in this? SHAME ON YOU! In fact shame on both of you! This child has no business getting involved in this crazy dysfunction. What is the matter with you involving him and portraying that what his mother is doing is even remotely normal. What is this showing him?

While you may be right in this assumption, he already knows that it is going on through past flare ups and arguments, plus the WW had sent a picture of him to EAP, and then told him that the EAP thought he had the look of a policeman about him. He knows it is not normal, and has asked what his mum is playing at. I have tried to explain limerance and the addictiveness of what she is going through while also explaining that it is symptomatic of our R problems that we need to solve. He is old enough to be honest with - you're right, I don't want to normalise this in anyway, but he deserves honesty when he asks a question. I get it though - he has already had to grow up early in so many ways, he needs space still to be a kid and not feel the burden of his parent's problems.

I'm sorry to come darn so hard on you but I want to get your attention. This is not okay - any of it. I hope you can talk to a professional to get some clarity here as its badly needed.

That's OK, it helps to have someone telling it as it is. I'm not here for sympathy, I'm here for help and advice in whatever form it's given. Yes, I will seek professional help, and will also get some coaching, now that I know there will be continuity of wages coming in. Thanks.

[Woke_Up]

Okay, so you can't look like you are happy for what you have done? I'm opening a virtual champagne for you tonight! I defer to the vets if this makes things better or worse, but you did what you felt you had to do and I applaud you for that. Status quo is over, so what next? I'm praying for you. What did SS?

What next - that's where I'm unsure. Her moods go up & down, as does her anxiety. She is better in the mornings than the evenings. I'm still trying to keep myself busy, keep some space between us. There is very little physical contact at the moment, if any, other than brushing past each other.

She still spews, I had to stop her last night when she immediately went into verbal abuse mode for no apparent reason - I'm working on picking her up on this every time. It does't necessarily stop her, but it lets her know that I'm not accepting of it. as I have been so many times in the past.

I need to work on me. Getting time just to think about what I need to work on. I'll dig out my DB goals later once she has gone to bed. I've had to keep the book well hidden, fortunately, as she went trough my stuff in my work bag where I usually kept it, and also ripped up my other self help/infidelity books.

And when I say work on me, I mean my spiritual and mental self. My exercise & Krav Maga is going OK, and I have been more proactive getting things done around the house & garden. I need to work out what I have done wrong previously, work out what isn't working now, work out how to be happier in myself, so I don't need praise and validation and reassurance, which I have needed previously, even if it wasn't often forthcoming. My mindfulness has suffered these last couple of weeks, without my usual train journey to meditate.

I think there is a touch of MLC going on, although I don't think that was the primary reason for the EA. She had botox done yesterday and is booked in for some more beauty treatment today, so that's the best part of £1000 gone... She was even talking about a nose job today! She doesn't
t need a flaming nose job, she is beautiful! OK, she deserves access to money, so I'm not making an issue, but I get told I am selfish whenever I want to do something, or spend anything (like when I mentioned buying a new wardrobe a couple of weeks ago, or my GAL activities. I think she stresses about money (if I was to be out of work for any period of time) but then is unable to prevent herself spending it on what she feels she deserves. She feels the victim so someone else (me) has to be the bad guy.

SS didn't really say much, just nodded and said he understood. Gave her a hug when we are at the dinner table.

WW has told me before that SS takes my side in what is going on ( I don't want sides taken) but she is his mother so he will always be loyal to her. I think SS has spoken to her after I have spoken to him before, when things were pretty bad and it looked like separation was on the cards. To be fair, when it blew up big time in September, not long after initial BD and had allegedly stopped (and it was then going straight on again), he came & told me that I was his dad, I would always be his dad, and he would still see me whatever happened.

I know DonH said not to involve him, and that is right, but it has been unescapable, with all of us in the house and W not caring about when she rages, or if it is in front of the kids. And me. I've been no angel, when deep in anger, or caught in the argument. I flared up and said things to her when the kids are around. DonH is right, I need the counselling of a professional so that I can become more balanced and try and keep things more healthy at home, especially for the kids sake.

Hope you are well, Gordie, my man. Rooting for you.

[Gordie]

Woke_Up,

1. Sounds like you are doing pretty well given the circumstances. If it's really over with the EA, then she must be suffering withdrawal, so no surprise re the spewing, lack of physical contact, and space. Good that you're not accepting the spewing; sounds like you are pretty calm/detached.

2. Yes, my W spends money the same way yours does. That is one of the things I am looking forward to in terms of separation and divorce...separate bank accounts!

3. Re kids. Yes, it's best to shield them from all of this stuff and that they don't take sides. So sweet that he came and told you that you were his dad, no matter what. It takes a mature and brave kid to say that.

4. I think my W and I have done pretty well in shielding our kids, except for the few flare ups when my W was so loud, the neighbors next door could hear. I know the kids heard her shouting and screaming but they've never mentioned anything about it to me.

5. Good luck finding a counselor. Take your time to find one you really trust or else you won't be able to open yourself up the way you need to. I tried out a few before I found the right one.

[Woke_Up]

Gordon, thanks.

1. I think so, but not sure for how long. I glanced at her phone today. She had unblocked the OM from Skype, but no conversations. He had hanged his status to 'missing my friend' so I expect he will start pursuing her soon.

2. We already have separate accounts. She is a SAhM so I try not to think of it as anything other than 'our' money. I just get ticked off now and again by our different spending habits when I am conscious of the bills and taxes. Hey ho, that's the way it goes.

3. He is a great kid. I just need to make sure I let him know this enough...

4. It's good that you can do that. I wish we were better at it.

5. Good advice, I will shop around.