Gordie: Pulling it all together 2

[Gordie]

Short update, don't have time for a longer one.

First, after the feedback from Rose, Cali and ForGump and others, I realized I was letting my W's freak-out affect how I was feeling and acting. So mid-week, I changed course and turned into the friendly, steady neighbor and, as per Hawho's example, treated my W as a houseguest (polite, but nothing intimate--I now wave and say hello and goodbye instead of hugging and kissing). The result was she started acting much more normally, making small talk with me, looking me in the eye, etc. Team, thanks for the help!

Second, and more importantly, W talked to me about proceeding with separation and divorce last night. She accused me of two things which weren't true (1) dragging my feet and (2) being greedy. I was definitely agitated, but kept it together to calmly point out that (1) I gave her everything she needed to file and she's been sitting on it for a month and (2) I am giving her the most important things she asked for (don't want to go into details) which is way, way more than is suggested by the law. She also asked again that we tell the kids and I move out before finalizing the settlement and I held my ground that I didn't want to tell the kids or move out before we had a settlement. She said okay. And at the end of this discussion? She gave me a hug, which was totally unexpected.

Here's what I didn't say: I think she thinks I am being greedy because she is now starting to realize that when you split one person's salary in two--there is less for both H and W! I have tried to tell her this before, but she hasn't acknowledged it. Now that the reality of it is sinking in, it's because I am being greedy.

[Woke_Up]

Gosh, what you said never occurred to me. Maybe I need to be a warm and friendly neighbor!

Are you going to start practicing on your neighbours? Rather than just do it for your W. That would be a 180 in this sitch. See how it feels? (I must admit, I am about as engaging as you with my neighbours, I like to keep myself to myself) I would be interested to hear how you get on if you do go down this route and also if it helps your future interactions with your W.

[Woke_Up]

Hey Gordie - I was playing catch up so my posts may have been a bit out of sync with your life. Great that it the rollercoaster is on the level at the minute, and that your 'friendly neighbour' approach is working for you... just remember, it's to help you rather than for her to react differently. It may be connected, it may not... just keep monitoring as per MWD advice

[roist]

Don't take this wrong but I smiled reading about how open your W has been with you. I smiled because it is unbelievable not because it is funny. It is probably of little consolation now, but your W is open and honest with you about her feelings and thoughts.That is positive although probably feels insensitive.

I get the feeling you are plan B. Which is better than not being considered but is not where you want to be. Don't be the safe fall back plan.She may not care now, but plant that seed of doubt in her that you are waiting for her.

As for the storm, your resolve to stand and level of hurt will be tested to the limits if she pursues her path. Expect it is coming and detach beforehand. I am glad you are prepared legally and have a support network.

My next point may be hard to grasp but you need to get to the point where you look on S as a good thing. I'm not asking you to want it but to embrace it. It is an opportunity to do whatever you want without the constraints of being married. I'm pro M but not being M does have other opportunities and benefits. Seek those out. Make the most of your new liberty. You can do whatever you want whenever you want. I am not taking about female company but life in general. Films your W would not like. Sports that you didn't have the time for, new hobbies/activities. Carpe dium. Seize the day.

I think those thoughts and feelings are normal but they are not helping you. Focus on something else. There is no magic one thing that you can do to flip this situation. Trying to do so will only push her further away. Let her go. It is only when she feels you are not clinging to her that she may stop fleeing. So letting go will help you get off the roller coaster but also give her the freedom to come back. She cannot come back if you don't let her go

Best wishes

[Gordie]

***Don't take this wrong but I smiled reading about how open your W has been with you. I smiled because it is unbelievable not because it is funny. It is probably of little consolation now, but your W is open and honest with you about her feelings and thoughts.That is positive although probably feels insensitive.***

Do you mean how she talks to me about POM and her dreams/plans for the future? Yes, she is open to me about these things. I just try to listen, even when it stabs me in the heart. She also that she's not sure that she's doing the right thing, but that she just has to do it...

***I get the feeling you are plan B. Which is better than not being considered but is not where you want to be. Don't be the safe fall back plan.She may not care now, but plant that seed of doubt in her that you are waiting for her.***

Okay, how do I do that with honesty? She of course doesn't come out and ask me direct questions about my post-separation dating intentions...instead she just makes declarations: you will be married within three years, before I will. This causes me to refute her and tell her I have no interests in dating other women (I know, I shouldn't do this), thus keeping me firmly in her backup plan. What should I say instead? Or just say nothing or say "it's interesting that you feel that way..." More important than my words...what should I DO, short of dating other women?

***As for the storm, your resolve to stand and level of hurt will be tested to the limits if she pursues her path. Expect it is coming and detach beforehand. I am glad you are prepared legally and have a support network.***

I have no doubt she will pursue her path with 100% of her being.

***My next point may be hard to grasp but you need to get to the point where you look on S as a good thing. I'm not asking you to want it but to embrace it. It is an opportunity to do whatever you want without the constraints of being married. I'm pro M but not being M does have other opportunities and benefits. Seek those out. Make the most of your new liberty. You can do whatever you want whenever you want. I am not taking about female company but life in general. Films your W would not like. Sports that you didn't have the time for, new hobbies/activities. Carpe dium. Seize the day.***

Yes, change to a PMA about separation and/or divorce...need to get my head around that!

***I think those thoughts and feelings are normal but they are not helping you. Focus on something else. There is no magic one thing that you can do to flip this situation. Trying to do so will only push her further away. Let her go. It is only when she feels you are not clinging to her that she may stop fleeing. So letting go will help you get off the roller coaster but also give her the freedom to come back. She cannot come back if you don't let her go.***

I'm going to keep repeating that..."she cannot come back if you don't let her go, she cannot come back if you don't let her go"...

[CaliGuy]

(2) I am giving her the most important things she asked for (don't want to go into details) which is way, way more than is suggested by the law.

Here's what I didn't say: I think she thinks I am being greedy because she is now starting to realize that when you split one person's salary in two--there is less for both H and W! I have tried to tell her this before, but she hasn't acknowledged it. Now that the reality of it is sinking in, it's because I am being greedy.

As I read the first part jumped out at me. Looking back at my sitch and others I do feel this is a common mistake us guys make. Somehow we think ok if the state/lawyer says this D will cost me X, I will give her 2or3X to prove to her and myself what a wonderful guy I am ..... this is not going to save your M nor win her back.

I was relieved to read a bit of the second portion because that is what needs to happen. She has to hit bottom and experience life without you, she has to have the fantasy she has been building brick by brick over the past months/years to start showing its true fault lines and cracks. Letting her know if the state says I owe you X is exactly what I will pay is a good start to get them to start thinking about it if nothing more than to educate them on the process.

My stance "This is not what I want, I respect your decision and will not stand in your way, however I will not fund your affair, your divorce, nor your life after it more than the state demands me to as any dollar I donate to your cause is a dollar less our son would have available to him."
For me it really is that simple.

[Gordie]

Cali,

Thanks for the reminder that my generosity will not win her back. I do want to be generous but do not want to do something stupid. I think the core problem is that we will both need to make financial sacrifices--she will and I will--and that doesn't match up with her fantasy.

***

I think my new friendly neighbor mindset has been helpful. It makes me realize that my expectations were previously way too high--more than zero. I say hello and goodbye when coming and going and can ask how was your day and not be offended if she gives me a one word response or doesn't ask me how my day was. I can sit in another room and not feel guilty. If she wants me she knows where to find me and it actually has made her initiate more contact. She still wants to play family--dinners, church, etc. She says we'll still do those things after D but Instesd of stressing about the future as I have been I feel like we can cross that bridge when we come to it. W met with her lawyer last week and wants to talk about it. Again, Im trying not to stress out about that. I'll listen and be calm and not commit to anything without thinking it through with counsel as appropriate. She has also significantly scaled back asking me to do things for her, not sure if that is a good or a bad thing.

[Gordie]

W has also scaled back all signs of affections--physical and words. Up until this past week, these were daily...now it's come and go. Some days a hug or a kiss on the cheek. Some days nothing. She gave me one ILY which surprised me. I didn't say ILY back which is a change for me. No sex in several weeks. How should I respond when she is affectionate? I don't want to be cold but I want to stop the dance of pursuit and distance. Right now, I'm letting her do all the pursuing. If she hugs I hug her back of course. If she wants to kiss me, I let her. But I don't escalate the physical or words of affection, which is what I would normally do.

[Gordie]

W is initiating all sorts of discussions today. No R discussions but about safe topics, asking my opinions, etc. I'm being polite and friendly and thoughtful, and keeping expectations at zero. W can go back to icy cold at any moment.

***

Job gave me a suggestion to read HaWho and ForeverYoung. Some thoughts from HaWho's situation--what an inspiration! I guess the moral of the MLC story is that these are all typical behaviors and I can't do anything about them and they shouldn't bother me, right? Just be steady, validate and keep my mouth shut?

1. It never dawned on me that my W was treating me like her father but the more I think about it, the more I see it. W is in rebellion against the role of women in society/marriage/religion and the oppression her mother experienced. The person she previously directed that anger was her father...but now it is directed towards me, even though I am the opposite of her father in every way--W says this is why she married me.

2. Sometimes my W identifies with our teenage girls. She borrows their clothes and wants to be with a man closer to their age. She was bantering with them about what celebrities they'd like to mess around with and which ones are more the marrying type. What does this do to the mother-daughter dynamic?

3. W is also obsessed with her looks and aging, diet and exercise, surgical and non surgical cosmetic procedures, not telling anyone her age (and getting annoyed with me if I reveal anything indicating her real age). She looks awesome for a woman in her 40s but she wants to be mistaken for someone in her 20s or 30s.

4. W also spends money like its limitless. W gets upset with any attempts to control her spending (I am being controlling or greedy).

[HaWho]

Hi Gordie - saw your post on my thread and wanted to jump over here to say thanks for the very kind words.

Like you are the opposite of your FIL, I am the polar opposite of my MIL. We have virtually nothing in common, neither in interests nor opinions. In fact, before she knew I played tennis at a fairly competitive level, she once told me she was 'horrified' that women participated in anything other than dance! She said women had no business being in sports!!

Anyway, I noticed pretty early on that my h kept trying to make me his mother. In the early days when he was zombie-like from the fog he actually gave me 'permission' to do several crazy things his mother did when he was little. I told him I was not his mother and I had zero interest in being her. This was before I knew this was MLC; back when I thought he must have a brain tumor (he was that confused.)

Just don't let yourself become the authority figure. For me, things changed when I started to smile and say "have fun" as he was going out during his hey day of replay. Then when the door closed I would go find all sorts of ways to vent all my resentment and anger; lots of rugged hikes mostly. (I wanted to make a voodoo doll of him though.) Prior to that, any whiff of disapproval from me and h doubled down. If she's running all around, try it and see what that does. Just act as if it doesn't bother you one bit.

And try hard not to watch her. I was horrible at this. I had owl eyes for the longest time. It was so astounding what I was witnessing. I just couldn't believe it.

In general, I would mirror her but be vanilla. Listen, validate and try not to linger or draw out conversations. Try to seem a touch distracted. In the early days this helped me, too. I always left conversations first. (This was a 180 for me, at first it felt like I was being rude.)

My h also tried to act like he was in his 20's. He became besties with men who had never been married.

As for your wife's interest in younger men, I am sure she wants to prove that she can still be attractive to a 20 year old. My h thought EVERY woman wanted him. He is attractive for sure. But, he did not seem to grasp the concept that, most likely, any 20 or 30 year old with her act together wouldn't be interested in him. A-he was married. B-she would probably naturally gravitate to a similarly aged man, not to a man her father's age.

They really do live in a parallel universe.

Just focus on you. Be polite but a touch aloof. Like you are okay and moving forward.