Love is a decision - my story

[Seeker7]

Apology:

An apology says, “I value this relationship, and I want to deal with this problem.” The refusal to apologize says, “I do not value this relationship, and it’s okay with me if we continue to be estranged.”
We cannot force an apology but we can extend the olive branch and express our willingness to forgive.

There are five languages of apology. Each person has a different language.

First – Expressing regret – “I’m sorry.”

Second – Accepting responsibility – This apology begins with the words “I was wrong.” Then you go on and explain what you were wrong about.

Third – Make restitution – You ask “What can I do to make it right.”

Fourth – Genuinely expressing the desire to change your behavior. – It is a plan so you will not do it again. “I will do my best to never do that again. I have made changes in my life.”

Fifth – Requesting forgiveness – “Will you please forgive me?”

When you make an apology to someone close to you that you have deeply hurt you should use all five.

If you want to make and apology for all other things not a bad you should say “I’m sorry, I was wrong, please forgive me?”

You are responsible to apologize for your wrongs but if they do not forgive you, you are not responsible.

Ok on to my sitch. On the second week of W moving out I asked her to forgive me and she could not do that yet. I understand now it was because it was too soon and there was not enough change in me to be sounding genuine. But during the course of my recovery in AA I got to the part of the process that I start going around and making amends to everyone that I have harmed. I have made amends with my kids first. Then I had to talk to the W so when I started going around to all of the other family members she would not be able to say that I did not offer to her before everyone else. So in the second week of December she called me.

I told her that I made amends with the kids. I told her that the only way I can make a full amends to her if we could sit down one on one so I can do it face to face. She said she was not ready for that yet and then I said “I am so sorry on how I treated you and hurt your feelings and I was very wrong on how much I hurt you. Will you please forgive me?” She did not say anything so I told her that I would continue to ask her over time to she is ready and left it at that. My apology was genuine and she knows it is a process in my recovery. She even mentioned it to a mutual friend that it was an apology but she never forgave me and it was not everything I needed to say. I know this is a very important part of the first steps towards the R process. My question is how often should I ask her? Should I wait for a sign? Should I ask her ever month or so since she does not give me any resistance or argument about it? When will I know to ask her again?

She will never come to me and I know that persistence in this matter will help but I do not want to be too persistent. I do not want to force it on her but from all I learned this is a very important process. Please feel free to give any other insight that anyone has. Past experiences or what they have done.

One thing that will always remain true is that we will always have to have some kind of relationship because we have kids together. Our lives will be entertained for the rest of our lives in one way or another.

[Seeker7]

My wife called me tonight and had a good conversations with her. Even though it was it was mainly about the kids and her heat just got fixed. She seemed more lively talking to me but she never asked any questions about me except about my job hunt. I know it is her worrying about herself but we did have a 20 min conversation. I need to do a better job at getting off before she says she has to go. But I did a lot of validation and made her laugh. She never asks me for anything though witch makes it easy for detachment. I always want to talk about the R but never do. Is this normal that they do not ask about what is going on in your life?

Can someone please help me out and answer some of my questions.

[PacLove]

Very normal... I was the same, could never end the conversation with W as it was always nice to "talk" on the phone when she was open and willing too... but she showed very little interest in me other than my Job as it paid the bills.

Those conversations come and go, I remember early on I had one of those and I thought to myself - she's missing me! But so soon after it was gone, it got dark and lonely for a long while.

It is really true what they say, it gets worse before it gets better. So strap in for the roller coaster ride, we've all been there!

[sandi2]

Harboring of resentment and bitterness is the #1 cause of depression in the US.

First of all there are four stages of bitterness:

Stage 1 – Unresolved anger – An angry conflict that is not resolved to the satisfaction of both parties can lead to one or both of the parties starting down the path towards bitterness. The intensity of the feelings is directly related to how close the offender is to us. We all have a choice to hold on to the hurt or to forgive the other.

Stage 2 – Festering – Defined as a progressive irritation. People demonstrate the following:

a. Develop a self-preoccupation with the details of the conflict, especially the words and actions of the offender.
b. Feel the injustice of the wrong done to them. They develop a self-righteous attitude.
c. Start to worry about how the conflict will end. This becomes an endless action going nowhere and not resolving the conflict.

Stage 3 – Resentment – Defined as a feeling of indignant displeasure because of something regarded as wrong, insult of other injury. People show the following.

a. Evil thoughts toward the offender in their mind.
b. Withdraws for the offender and his allies using hostile silence. Develops a lack of trust in others and loss of personal confidence.
c. Develops a critical sarcastic attitude toward those around them causing others to stop relating. This action leaves the person more isolated.

Stage 4- Bitterness – Defined as an intense or severe suffering of the mind.

a. Bitterness can develop from real or imagined hurts. The bitter person becomes preoccupied with the hurt of the other person. The other Person’s guilt always seems so real.
b. Bitterness is like a prison – Trapped and closed in – felling intense inner turmoil.
c. Develops envy – Painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another.
d. Continuing to hold onto bitterness becomes a sin – can also become an idol.

Anger occurs – anger is unresolved and held in – Offended party mulls over the painful events that caused the anger – resentment grows – bitterness develops – bitterness expressed – isolation occurs – physical and mental problems develop – bitterness becomes a way of life.

Holding on to resentment is like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die.

Forgiveness:

There are two reasons that people do not forgive and usually it is a combination of the two.

1. People do not know how to forgive.
2. People hold on to it because they believe that it will hurt the other person.

What forgiveness is not:

The passing of time will never remove the barrier. Barriers are removed by sincere apologies and genuine forgiveness.

Forgiveness is not a feeling but a decision. It is the decision to offer grace instead of demanding justice. Forgiveness removes the barrier and opens the possibility for the relationship to grow.

First, Forgiveness does not destroy our memory.

Second, forgiveness does not remove all the consequences of wrongdoing.

Third, Forgiveness does not rebuild trust.

Fourth, forgiveness does not always result in reconciliation.

Fifth, Genuine forgiveness is the only thing that will keep roots of bitterness.

Reconciliation requires working through differences, finding new ways of doing thing, solving the conflicts of the past, and learning how to work together as a team.

Forgiveness does not remove all the hurt nor does it automatically restore loving feeling but forgiveness is the first step in processing hurt and restoring love.

I agree with what is written above. Thank you for taking the time to write it down. I hope many will see your post, and benefit from it. On the last part, is a word missing in #5?

At the moment, my only suggestion is to pull back from pursuing her, such as contacting and asking how she is doing and telling her you love her. It sounds sweet, and there are probably some ladies on the board who would almost kill to see the same changes in their H's.........however, you need to ease off with a WAW.

Do you know if she is currently seeing anyone else?

It sounds as if your daughter might be your best ally.

In what way do you feel your stitch is different from most others here? Your answer will help us see from your point of view.

I hope you continue posting, and also, reaching out on other threads (I have seen a couple of your posts elsewhere).

[Rose888]

I might be misreading your post. Are you asking how often you should ask your wife to forgive you?

If so, I would say don't ask her again unless the topic comes up in conversation. You asked, and she answered. To keep asking is disrespectful.

You have done enough to carry on with making amends with others.

[Gordie]

I might be misreading your post. Are you asking how often you should ask your wife to forgive you?

If so, I would say don't ask her again unless the topic comes up in conversation. You asked, and she answered. To keep asking is disrespectful.

You have done enough to carry on with making amends with others.

I agree with Rose that if you keep asking, it is disrespectful...but would add one other thing from my experience re timing and how circumstances can change and what might be in your control.

There was a specific issue after BD that my W was very angry at me about and justifiably so. Shortly thereafter, I apologized for it and asked for forgiveness. She said she couldn't forgive me.

A month or two passed and I kept thinking about it. Over that time, I tried to better understand what I did and the hurt that was caused from her perspective and my understanding deepened. When the time was right, I said, I know that I apologized for X a month or two ago and that you said you couldn't forgive me, so I've continued to really think about it and I believe that I have come to a better understanding of the what I did and the hurt that I caused you....ADD EXPLANATION HERE...W was genuinely surprised and she said that I finally understood what she was saying and that yes, she could now forgive me.

Bottom line is that my W couldn't forgive me because she didn't think I really understood what I did wrong and how I hurt her (she was right), so I couldn't genuinely express the appropriate level of remorse the first time I asked, even if well-intentioned.

[Seeker7]

PacLove,

Thanks for that info it does give me much reassurance to my thinking. That is what has been happening already were sometimes she is more talkative and others were she is very short. I know at times she misses me and other times she hates me. The way I know is because of comments she has made to other people that talk to me. Our mutual friend told me that a couple of weeks before Thanksgiving she broke down crying and said she still loved me than a month later she wishes I would find a girlfriend and move on so I would leave her alone. I do understand she is also on an emotional roller coaster too. She also asks the kids and other people how I am doing. One thing I have made a true commitment to is that I will not date or even try to have an EA with anyone until at minimum until after a divorce which I pray that will never come. Here in my state the laws for divorce is that you have to live in separate residents for one year before you can get a divorce and it has been a little over three months since the S. One thing I believe is by biggest tool to win her back is my change and prayer. Since I have read all your threads of your sitch I know you have done a lot of that too.

[Seeker7]

Sandi,

You have been a tremendous insight for me and sure many others on the information that you have posted. I have started going back through your threads on many other posts and have read some of your initial threads on your sitch. You are an amazing woman and have seen many good light bulb moments in my head from your info.

Thank you for noticing my post on the forgiveness and what I want is not to just get answers form here but also help out others where I can. It does give me a sense of feeling good when I am able to help others and it is part of my AA and spiritual recovery to help out where I can. It has been a part also in my changes to GAL.

I have quit telling her I love her right after I read DR and have been following most of your rule before that. I even stopped calling her sweaty on the phone also. We only talk about fact changing stuff on the phone and mostly it is about her job and the kids. For months I would only call her 2 to 3 times a week and right before Christmas I even went down from that. Now in the past two weeks I have talked to her 4 times and every one of those she called me. I was thinking to only call her once a week if she does not call me but if you think I shouldn’t do that I will trust your judgment since you have a ton of experience in this area. As for pursing her I do not believe I am as of lately but that is only in my perspective and can be wrong. I know that when we are in these sitch we can have horse blinders on and do not see the whole picture so that is why I rely on other peoples suggestions on things when I know they are more knowledgeable and experienced about the sitch.

Well here is what I do know about my W on seeing other M. First of all she is a WW not a WAW. She did have a few other M back in March and April but they were all just hook ups that would never lead to anything more than sx. She did leave bread crumbs for me to find like paying for hotel rooms with our checking account. I did not really see it until April and set some stern boundaries. Like I checked her phone, email and any financial thing she had. We talked about it and from what I know it was more of a revenge thing and getting her emotional needs met. She did stop and I know this because of me snooping and other things going on at the time. Now once she had secured a home that she was moving to in late September I saw one of the guy’s pop back up and I confronted her about it and she deigned it but I saw the evidence. She also changed all the passwords to everything she had at that time also.

When she moved out I know she was seeing another guy for a couple of months because others told me about it and from what I have said before in my other posts. I know that guy is no longer in the pic because he dumped her. She had another guy for a couple of dates but he stood her up a few times. I know she is glued to the phone on several dating apps talking to other M. I do not believe she has found anyone yet that she is really seeing. From what she has told others is she is only looking for fun and not a R. What she craves the most is the attention and that is feed very well from the sites. . She does not bring other M over there because of the kids but she did kick out the kids one weekend so she can have a M over but that was the weekend he broke it off with her.

A few things that I know is that she does not have 15 hours a week to devote to someone right now because of her work and how much time she spends at the house. A few reasons why she is going to have a hard time to find a M to take it serious with her is as follows. One she has codependency issues and has a bit of low self-esteem. Second is that her primary LL is touch and her secondary LL is quality time and it is hard to find a man that will know them and even more be willing to fulfil them. And just so you know is that there is a book out there from the same author on the military at the end. This one is geared to military people who are deployed and want to meet that LL. It actually gave me some good insight on how to meet the need of touch when I never see her but have stayed away from that for now because it would be too pushy. Third is on emotional needs appearance falls high on the list of hers and is a lot more pick on M than many other women. Forth is she is very clingy but that has to do a lot with her LL and the other things I have stated above. Another thing is she does not blame me for the whole marriage. She has told many people about the S and has always told them that we had many good years. She even told me before she left is that she wanted the old me back because she loved him.

Yes I agree with you about my daughter. That is another thing I did destroy because of my addiction was the relationship with my kids. She even told me right after she said she was moving out that I need to work on myself and the kids and not worry about her. There were many different things she said that make so much sense now. Like when I told her how much I loved her she would tell me that love is not enough. What I have learned is that the top things a woman needs from a man it emotional security, intimate conversation for connection and to be valued which all three I failed on. I have been working on creating a better relationship with my kids and have been having a bunch of success. But it does take time because of how much I hurt them. Like my W they want proof and proof takes time through actions not words. When she moved out the kids were happy to go along and were pushing her to move also. Know both of them are talking to me and my son stops by every week or two to see me. My daughter is now answering my phone calls and talking to me a bit. I always keep the subject on about them and do not bring up my W and sometimes they tell me stuff on their own. I know they want to see us back together. I really started to make head way with my daughter on her 18th birthday last month. I picked her up and brought her over to my place and made amends with her and gave her some roses. Then I took her to the Melting Pot for dinner and had a very nice time with her and then took her home. The biggest problem is because of their ages they are not interested in spending much time with me because they are spending time with their school, work, friends, and dating. She does take more sides with my W because of their close connection but my actions are proving to them that I am not the same person as I was. Now my step son does not even talk to me but I do call him every now and again and leave a message and do send him cards every month like I do with my other kids.

I believe my sitch is different than all the others I have read is because I did have an A and because of my addiction. My problem also was never me being Mr. nice guy but the opposite. I was very self-centered, manipulative and controlling. I had no problem standing for what I wanted and actually tried to use her emotions against her to get what I wanted. I always had to be right and prove it and never apologies for when I was wrong. Know I like the saying “You can be right or you can be happy.” Now one thing I do know is because of my addiction I know the state of mind she is in. I defiantly know that there is nothing I can say that will change her desires. It will all have to come from her wanting to change because of circumstances or other people in her life influencing change in her.

I am going to continue posting and am trying to read through other peoples sich but because of being so many it is taking me time. You will continue to see more of my posts here and other places. Thank you for taking time to help me out.

[Seeker7]

Rose888,

Thank you for your reply. Let me clarify this a little better. It should have been worded a little different now looking back at it. I am not necessarily asking her to forgive me but for me to make my amends with her. As I said above she is not going to bring it up. She would not do this even if we were on best terms ever. She does not bring anything up ever that would cause confrontation because of her personality she hates that and is scared of that. That’s why in the past I have used it against her because I knew that if I got her upset it would be easier for her to give in to what I wanted. Also she wants me to read her mind and guess what she wants because in her mind if she tells me then it is not me doing it. But from what I understand now there are many other women that do that to. So what I am asking is how often should I ask her if she is ready to sit down face to face so I can make my full amends with her?

And thank you on your point of view because I agree with you on that it would be disrespectful to keep asking all of the time. I do see your point on timing and her being willing. Do you believe this would be the same thing?

Gordie,

Thanks for your reply. It is good to see what you did and helps me understand a bit better. I understand the necessity to put in what you have done and put it across in that you truly do understand. As is put in above on some of this and will clarify a few things better. I did sit down and make a long list of things that I need to apologies for but I want to do it face to face so she can see my face and my eyes besides just my voice. I know I am very remorseful for what I have done and want to make it right. I agree that timing is everything to with it. I just do not want to do it over the phone. Right now she still does not want to see me and I have completely quit asking too. What are the thoughts on doing it over the phone or in person?

[Cristy]

Hello Seeker7,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

It sounds like you are really embracing your recovery from drug and alcohol abuse. Bravo! Keep up the good work. Don't be surprised that your wife doesn't share your enthusiasm. Your actions speak much louder than your words, and will continue to do so as time goes by.

Focus on becoming the best Seeker7 and Dad that only a fool would leave. What are your GAL activities? New hobby? Making a career change?

Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.

Cristy

Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004