Well back in 1994 I decided to join the National Guard and in the beginning of November I was sent off to basic training. When I got there I went through the initial holding area before we went to our platoons. Latter I found out that my wife saw me there and told herself she saw me and was going to marry me but there was no telling if we were going to be put together. Now this was the first integrated male and female training. So as to be we got placed in the same platoon and by thanksgiving we were writing love letters back and forth to each other. We quickly fell in love and were trying everything to spend time together. Well right be for Christmas she got a medical discharge and went back to her home and we continued to write letters back and forth to each other. I had gotten a two week break for Christmas and went home for a short while and on the 26th I went up to see her 12 hours away. We had great connection time and we both knew that we were meant to be together so I proposed to her in the very beginning of the year. She also had a 2 year old son at the time. I was 21 and she was 19. I left for the rest of my basic and wrote her almost every day and any time I could call her I did. On February 2nd we got married. This was the day after my basic graduation. The three of us went off to my secondary training. From there we had a very deep loving relationship for over 10 years. Both of us were very happy and met each other�s emotional needs. In 1998 my son was born in January and in the same year my daughter was born in December.
This is where our marriage starts to fall apart in about 2006. Let be back up some and explain what happened. In about 2004 I had gotten hurt on a job and had bad back pain and went to several different doctors. I ended up at a pain management specialist. He had me start off on some narcotics to ease the pain. Which both of us were like that�s fine. After a couple of years I kept getting more from the doctor. Then in 2006 is when my addiction got out of control. The doctor just kept giving me more and more drugs and the addiction state of self-centeredness took over. It was only about my medication and what I wanted. I did not care about anything else. So in 2007 I was getting in wrecks and sleeping 16 hours a day and ignored everyone who did not cater to what I wanted. I also got in trouble with the law to where my driver�s license got suspended. My wife was under a lot of stress and was trying everything to get me to stop. We went to a marriage consoler and after one visit I said that I was not going back. Then in March of 2008 my wife went to the hospital for a brain clot and I was supposed to go to the store and get some stuff for the kids for school and go to the hospital to be by her side. Well I ended up in jail and she left me there until her and my parents came up with a plan to get me treatment. She ended up moving back up by her family and I went down to my parents and entered a recovery program. Well my life turned around and got clean and finished up everything I needed to do and moved back up with her in January of 2009. Our marriage was good and seemed to be getting better little by little over the next few years but it was never like it used to be. My emotional needs were not getting fully meet and so were hers. I was trying to meet her needs the way I wanted to get mine met. I did not understand what to do and did not seek out to learn and she did the same thing.
Well stuff went on slowly with ups and down and we started to discus and argue more. I tried to tell her what I needed and she never did it. She would never tell me what she needed and did not really talk to me much about her emotions or needs. I did not know what to do. In the middle of 2012 I started to turn more to alcohol. I figured that since I did not ever return to the prescription medication or hard drugs that I was not going to be addicted to alcohol. It seemed to give me some consolation and drown my emotions since at this point all my pleas for what I needed seemed to be hopeless. It was me drinking pretty much every weekend. By this point we were starting to drift further apart. Well over the course of the next 2 years I started to drink more and more until it was every day. I started to ignore my wife and kids more and do what I wanted to do. Because of the additive mentality I did not see the harm I was doing to my family. I started to get verbally abusive with my wife and kids. By 2015 my kids did not even want to be around me and my wife tried to stay in the other room when I was drinking. In this time I went out and got some ONS so I could get something I wanted. During this time my wife told me every now and then that she was not happy or that she wishes she could be happy like some other couple we knew. I was like ok and never perused it more. Her core value for marriage has always been marriage is forever not matter what happens. This is something that was always true and told to me by her threw out our time together. At this point I was not really emotionally in love with her any more and was acting like a WAS. But all this time she always stuck by my side and was there for me. I truly believe she never cheated on me during all those years. In January of 2016 she told me that I had to stop drinking like I was because she was not in love with me anymore. So I stopped drinking like I was and started to be a social drinker. I started to do more things for her that I knew she liked. In March I found out that she had a PA with OM that month. This hit me hard and realized that I did truly love her and did not want to lose her. I believe she was leaving bread crumbs so I would know what she had done to hurt me. So we sat down and talked and told her that I had one to because she already pretty much knew about it. She then started to meet a few OM for brief time over the next couple of months. I started drinking more again. Then in May all the OM stopped and we were making progress as a couple together so I thought. I started to drink more and was back to where I was on my drinking. So in the beginning of August I was drinking one night and got into an argument with my son and he told me that my wife had told my kids about my A. So I told them about her A that they did not know about. This was the last straw that broke the camel�s back. This is when I completely closed her sprit towards me but still did not realize what I had done. At this point she really distanced from me and was cold to my touch. She was up all hours of the night playing games on her phone and looking for houses when I was asleep and at times when I woke up I would see that. I thought that she was talking to other men but it was not the case because I checked her phone and computer. In the last week of August I finally really confronted her on what she was doing and she told me that she was moving out.
It finally hit me completely like a brick wall. I had to change and had to do it that day. I stopped drinking for a couple of days and started pleading for her to stay and that I was going to change. I brought her flowers and wrote her letters. I called her at work to see how she was doing and many other things. It was just pushing her further away but I knew if I kept doing the same thing it would eventually work. I made an appointment with a marriage consoler and she finally said she would go to one because I went to one with her years ago. We talked and she just kept telling me ILYBNILWY. She would never bring up the divorce word and when I kept trying to get what her intentions were with us she would always put it in she did not know or maybe. She would tell me to work on myself and the kids. So that day September 4th I quit drinking for good. I started going to AA and doing everything that they suggested for me to do. I kept pleading to her that I was changing and was doing the right thing now. I just made her more upset and pushed her further away. She even told me to stop buying her flowers. She started up the old behavior with talking to OM right before she moved out on October 2nd. She did not want me to help her move and did not want anything from me as form of helping her out except child support. We split up the furniture and left most stuff with me. She even left her pillows because I believe she did not want my smell in her new bed. She gave me back all the pictures of us. A week later she had printed out separation papers with very straight forward agreement. I keep what I have and she keeps what she has. We easily came up with child support amount and since the youngest was almost 18 there was no need for child custody, also that I could not go to her house or work without an invitation. So by now a moth later I realized that all my pleading and begging did nothing but push her further away. So what I did is what I always do when I am not sure on how to proceed. I started learning.
On October 3rd I started to clean the house up and rearrange everything to the way I wanted it to be. I kept thinking to myself to cheer up is that cool I can put everything were I want it to be and will not have to hear that it does not look good that way. So that�s what I did for the first week on my free time. I also found an audio CD on what women want men to know. It was very insightful and I realized that I did not know much about women and marriage. So I started to scavenge the internet for marriage books and how to win your ex back. I bought an eBook on how to win your ex back and it gave me a lot of good information on what to do but latter I realized that it was not quite geared towards my situation. I already had done a 180 because of what I was learning in AA and with my sponsor. I also started to go back to church and get my life right with God. I also found a spiritual counselor at church. After about a week after she left she blocked me from FB and that really hit me hard. My heart was so broken and my emotions were so crazy that I would want to not be myself and just go back drinking because it would take my emotions away. But I refused to give up and continued to work on changing myself and not drinking no matter what. I found several other good books by Dr. Harvey and started to really read a lot and bought several audio books to listen to in the car. Two weeks after she moved out my daughter had her color guard competition and was going to see my wife. I get there and she was on the phone texting the whole time with another guy. She said it was work but I knew better and I saw the name and a couple lines of text. By this time I had done just enough learning to know that I could not talk about our future and not to argue with her about what she was doing or tell her what to do. So I just made the best of it and talked to her about regular everyday stuff and spent some time with my daughter. I joked with her and made her laugh and told her some on what I was reading and doing. At one point I hit her emotionally on showing her that I understood that I was not meeting her emotional needs and what those needs were. At the end of the day she said she had a good time but I could tell that she had a very closed spirit towards me still. She would jump to my touch and she had an angry look towards me for most of the night. At this point I was sending her a nice little text message every day just saying something like �Hope you have a nice day. I am thinking of you and love you.� I had asked her if it was bothering her but she just told me she did not know. I had read it somewhere that could win her back. Well over the next moth I would text her every day and would call her about three times a week even though she would never text me back or call me. I just continued to read book after book and listen to marriage seminars and audio books. I talked to several people in church that do marriage help and other people who know a bit about marriage because they went to marriage consoling for years. During this time I also came to except that she may never come back to me. I was working diligently on getting a life. We still had one mutual close friend that did not take sides and wants to see us back together again. It was nice talking to him because he noticed big changes in my life. Just so you know he is a gay married person. So I know he would never do anything with my wife. He did give me a lot of things that my wife would complain about me so I had a better understanding of what she did not like about the person who I had become. Which most of that stuff I had already taken care of or was working on. She was reading my letters but after a while she told him that she was feeling stoked by them. Just to inform you my letters were just about me and what I was doing in my life. What I was working on and that I loved her and missed her. I never said once that she was the problem or pointed fingers at her. I know that I have a bigger piece of the pie but not the whole pie. After the beginning of December I stopped writing letters since it was not working. I also stopped texting her in the middle of November since she got mad at me about that. We saw each other a few times do to the kid�s school events but she was always glued to the phone texting and had an angry look towards me. The Friday before Thanksgiving she called me and asked me to bring her a heating pad so I did. We talked for a bit and I took her to the store so she could get a few things with her money. When we were walking out she told me that we were never getting back together again. I told her that I was not going to give up on her. She got silent and changed the subject. We ended up going out to dinner and we had a good time. Her wall had come down some and I saw a glimpse of her love to me. Then on the ride home her closed spirit started right back up and she got very silent. I left right after I took her back because she completely shut down. The next day she told our mutual friend that she had a good time and told him that I was not going to give up on her with a smile on her face. She also said that I could go to Thanksgiving at his house witch I was invited to but was not going because she was going. A couple of days before Thanksgiving she changed her mind. I ended up going to it any ways but that was a mistake. She was very cold to everyone and was on her phone the whole time. Since then I have not seen her and she does not want to see my yet. So now the only thing I do is call her once or twice a week just to check on her and we talk for about ten minutes. We never talk about anything except the kids or what is going on in our lives with work or stuff like that. I have done a lot of reading on closed spirits and hardened hearts. It takes a long time to get over more so for a female because of how their brain works with emotions, which I have done a lot of learning on too.
I am working on all areas of my life, PIES. PIES stand for physical, intellectual, emotional and spiritual. So to give you more of an idea of what I did in each area I will explain what I have done from the beginning of October till the end of the year. Physical is that I joined a gym and lost over 50lbs and stopped drinking and ate healthier. It was pretty easy to lose the weight since I stopped drinking and did not eat much because of the emotional state I was in. My intellectual state I did a lot of learning. In a three month period I had read over 20 books on marriage and relationships. I had listened to about a 150 hours of audio books and seminars ranging from marriage, relationship, self-help to anger and forgiveness. I wanted to be more knowledgeable on all aspects of everything I was going through. I also spent countless hours talking to many different people from family, AA, church and marriage counselors. Now for emotional it pretty much is dealing with most of the stuff from the intellectual since it has pertained to relationships and emotional stuff it would fall under this category. I created a whole new circle of good people who would be there for me. But the most important part of what I did was to get a spiritual life. Like it says in the 3rd step in AA is to give your life and will over to a higher power which is God for me. I started to go to church and have a personal relationship with God by praying and reading the Bible. In December through all the praying that I was doing God finally gave me peace with what I was going through. So in three months I have learned more about relationships then in the rest of my life combined. This has become my new hobby and am hoping one day that I will be able to help other people with all that I am learning.
So right now I am looking for the next thing to try even though I know time is something that she needs the most. From what I know is that she does still have feelings for me but she has a lot more anger and resentment to me. I have made apologies and she has not yet forgiven me yet. I know she is having an EA and probably occasional hook ups. She is very busy with work and the two charities she helps out with. The kids do inform me on some but those OM are gone. She tells everyone that she is not looking for a relationship but just wants to test the waters. Everything is through the phone apps which I know what kind of men are on there for the vast majority of them. So in conclusion I was a WAS and now she is the WAS. I know that I am not responsible for what she does and nor do I blame myself for her decisions. I know enough to know that we cannot change other people but we can influence change in them. I know each and every one of use is responsible for our own actions but we can cause others to act differently because of our actions. So that�s why now I just do the next right thing to the best of my ability.
Love is a decision. Genuine love is honor put into action, regardless of the cost. Where there is decision to love emotions will follow.
Love is a decision. Genuine love is honor put into action, regardless of the cost.
Me:43 W:41 M:21 SS:25 S:19 D:18 BD1:3/16 BD2:10/16 W moves out 10/2/16
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I have been spending more time with my kids and creating a better relationship with them. My S stopped by last night to check on how I was doing and to say hi. My D is answering my calls and she did say a couple of months ago that she thinks my W wants proof of my changes. My W does talk a lot with my D and tells her way to much about her life.
My W called me today to check on my job search since I got laid off last month. I believe it is more about the child support than anything else since that is all she will ask me about that is going on in my life.
I would love to hear from anyone who has some suggestions or strength and hope for me.
Love is a decision. Genuine love is honor put into action, regardless of the cost.
Me:43 W:41 M:21 SS:25 S:19 D:18 BD1:3/16 BD2:10/16 W moves out 10/2/16
I see that there are a lot of Mr. Nice Guys sitch but have not seen any that are more like my sitch. If any one can let me know more I would appreciate it.
Love is a decision. Genuine love is honor put into action, regardless of the cost.
Me:43 W:41 M:21 SS:25 S:19 D:18 BD1:3/16 BD2:10/16 W moves out 10/2/16
From reading all these posts on the site I have realized that there is a long road ahead of me. When she first left I thought that it would be a few months then we would start working on the R. Now I can see that it can take years to get to a point of moving back in with each other if it ever gets to that. Sandi's post have been a great help and have read through all the link threads. Now I am trying to find some friends on the board.
Love is a decision. Genuine love is honor put into action, regardless of the cost.
Me:43 W:41 M:21 SS:25 S:19 D:18 BD1:3/16 BD2:10/16 W moves out 10/2/16
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I know the say to not believe anything she says and half of what she does. I know she is in an EA and had at least one other A while she has been gone. She is glued to the phone texting to OM or several. But last week when we were talking she said she went to the doctor and they put her on a new medication and one of the side affects is higher chance for pregnancy. She had her tubes tide after my D. And right after she says that she had to throw in that she is not having s*x. If she is so over the marriage why would she even care that it stays hidden?
Love is a decision. Genuine love is honor put into action, regardless of the cost.
Me:43 W:41 M:21 SS:25 S:19 D:18 BD1:3/16 BD2:10/16 W moves out 10/2/16
Ok since my sitch is different than any other threads I have read and have read a lot of Sandi�s (you have been a tremendous help thank you) post on the WW wife I understand that there are two important things that have to be done to win the love of my W back. First she has to be able to forgive me for what I did to her and second is I have to win her respect back. Correct me if it should be the other way around. As you can see I did cause her a lot of emotional pain and hurt her heart deeply. I know that I am not responsible for how she feels but I am responsible for what I did.
I have done a lot of reading on resentment and bitterness; also have done a lot of reading on forgiveness. Also since I am AA I have talked to many different people about this also because forgiveness and making amends is a very big part of the program.
Harboring of resentment and bitterness is the #1 cause of depression in the US.
First of all there are four stages of bitterness:
Stage 1 � Unresolved anger � An angry conflict that is not resolved to the satisfaction of both parties can lead to one or both of the parties starting down the path towards bitterness. The intensity of the feelings is directly related to how close the offender is to us. We all have a choice to hold on to the hurt or to forgive the other.
Stage 2 � Festering � Defined as a progressive irritation. People demonstrate the following:
a. Develop a self-preoccupation with the details of the conflict, especially the words and actions of the offender. b. Feel the injustice of the wrong done to them. They develop a self-righteous attitude. c. Start to worry about how the conflict will end. This becomes an endless action going nowhere and not resolving the conflict.
Stage 3 � Resentment � Defined as a feeling of indignant displeasure because of something regarded as wrong, insult of other injury. People show the following.
a. Evil thoughts toward the offender in their mind. b. Withdraws for the offender and his allies using hostile silence. Develops a lack of trust in others and loss of personal confidence. c. Develops a critical sarcastic attitude toward those around them causing others to stop relating. This action leaves the person more isolated.
Stage 4- Bitterness � Defined as an intense or severe suffering of the mind.
a. Bitterness can develop from real or imagined hurts. The bitter person becomes preoccupied with the hurt of the other person. The other Person�s guilt always seems so real. b. Bitterness is like a prison � Trapped and closed in � felling intense inner turmoil. c. Develops envy � Painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another. d. Continuing to hold onto bitterness becomes a sin � can also become an idol.
Anger occurs � anger is unresolved and held in � Offended party mulls over the painful events that caused the anger � resentment grows � bitterness develops � bitterness expressed � isolation occurs � physical and mental problems develop � bitterness becomes a way of life.
Holding on to resentment is like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die.
Forgiveness:
There are two reasons that people do not forgive and usually it is a combination of the two.
1. People do not know how to forgive. 2. People hold on to it because they believe that it will hurt the other person.
What forgiveness is not:
The passing of time will never remove the barrier. Barriers are removed by sincere apologies and genuine forgiveness.
Forgiveness is not a feeling but a decision. It is the decision to offer grace instead of demanding justice. Forgiveness removes the barrier and opens the possibility for the relationship to grow.
First, Forgiveness does not destroy our memory.
Second, forgiveness does not remove all the consequences of wrongdoing.
Third, Forgiveness does not rebuild trust.
Fourth, forgiveness does not always result in reconciliation.
Fifth, Genuine forgiveness is the only thing that will keep roots of bitterness.
Reconciliation requires working through differences, finding new ways of doing thing, solving the conflicts of the past, and learning how to work together as a team.
Forgiveness does not remove all the hurt nor does it automatically restore loving feeling but forgiveness is the first step in processing hurt and restoring love.
Love is a decision. Genuine love is honor put into action, regardless of the cost.
Me:43 W:41 M:21 SS:25 S:19 D:18 BD1:3/16 BD2:10/16 W moves out 10/2/16
