Sandi2 question thread

[Jug]

She's a sahm and at the very least enjoys financial security and a comfortable lifestyle.

[j20a00g]

Ah. Yes that's makes things a bit difficult. You don't want to be controlling and punitive as sandi mentioned when it comes to finances.

Where is she sleeping? Perhaps nudging her out of the MB is a start? Treat it as an in home separation.

[sandi2]

Sandi - I've been working on true detachment and continue to struggle with her ambivalence. She's enjoying the material benefits of married life but not working on the marriage. Is this a futile path or should I work at it longer? It could be looked at as a negative that we are not separated so it doesn't hurt enough for her. Should I initiate that to establish my boundary that not working on things is not ok? Thank you.

I had written out the post when it dawned on me that I may not have interpreted what you mean. So, I hope it doesn't confuse anyone.

I think you and I may be using the word "work" with different definitions. You are saying she is not "working on the M". You say you returned to the counselor as a last attempt b/c she won't work on the M. I think you mean she won't do what is needed to save it. She doesn't want to work on it b/c she doesn't care about saving it. Sometimes I forget or miss an update. Has she ended the affair with OM?

When I use the word "work", I am referring to the actions needed after her remorseful apology, etc. We can't force a spouse to work on the MR. Detaching is important, and GAL. I am a firm believer in setting boundaries. If the spouse is in an affair, living like girls gone wild, or some other action you feel is inappropriate and dishonors you as a man, H, or father............then effective boundaries are a must, if you are ever going to have a chance at a successful MR. If your spouse is in an affair........don't expect to see her "working" on the M. There are other actions that must take place before the couple start working at rebuilding their MR. She has to end the affair; apologize for the destruction she has caused; take responsibility for her actions; express remorse; be willing to do whatever is necessary to save the M. Otherwise, she is not going to suddenly start working with you on the MR. These other things are absolutely necessary to have a correct starting place for her to push up her sleeves and get down to really working. People forget that good relationships don't just happen without work. That especially is true in M. It goes double when healing from an affair. You have to heal, and she has to do a lot of chang within herself.

If the wayward wife is truly remorseful, and agrees to work on the MR.........then I believe there needs to be a plan of action in how and what needs to be done. If nothing is done to get the couple back on the right track........then her remorse and agreement will be forgotten and her waywardness will continue at some level. At best, the couple will live separate lives under the same roof, with no intimacy in the relationship.

By saying they need a plan, I am referring to things like knowing what conditions you will give, when she agrees to work on the M, like.......transparency; her becoming informed about the addiction of affairs; attending a therapist who specializes in couples healing from affairs; These are just a few of my suggestions, and you will have other things to add (like expecting her to sleep in the same bed with you, etc). The point, however, is to present your conditions when she asks what will she have to do for you to take her back. If she will not agree to do what you need to heal from her betrayal, then the problem will not be resolved and her lack of respect will probably continue.

Btw, do not tell her what will be required from her.........Unless she has done the things I said in the first paragraph. I just cringe when a H volunteers to tell his W what she will have to do to work on the M, when she has not even ended her affair. He needs to wait until he gets a remorseful apology and she takes responsibility for the betrayal and agrees to work.

It could be looked at as a negative that we are not separated so it doesn't hurt enough for her. Should I initiate that to establish my boundary that not working on things is not ok?

Are you asking me if you should stop or take away some of the benefits of the M? Not sure what you mean in the second sentence. If you are asking if she should lose some of her benefits b/c she is having an A or behaving in some way that is very disrespectful, then I would say yes. I just don't know how you mean to use it to establish your boundary that not working on the M is not okay. What is your boundary? Is it that you will not live with a cheater, or you will not stay in an open M? Whatever your boundary is........then there should be some type of consequence if it is dishonored. Your boundary is established when you actually say it out loud to her. The effectiveness is when you carry through with what you said when you stated it. That is why I asked what exactly is your boundary? You can't just say it's not okay. She will laugh in your face, or shrugg it off. Am I making sense? Yes, the consequence should be strong enough that she actually notices and knows why, without you sitting down to explain.

[Jug]

Sandi-
Thanks again for putting so much into a reply. To start, ww has claimed that things have ended with om and I haven't found evidence that this is not true. You mentioned that many ww's just take things deeper underground. She doesn't show true remorse and didn't agree to explore the possibility of having a romantic relationship with me in counseling with the last mc. She ultimately said she didn't want a d either. That's what's troubling me. What I was asking was if I need to or should separate because we are living in limbo.

[sandi2]

So there is no remorse, no signs of withdrawal, and no transparency. She basically just refuses to leave, and apparently she's figured out she has no provisions apart from staying in the M legally. If you physically S, would those benefits end? That should be something you need to consider.

I seriously doubt she has ended all contact with OM. She just tells you it's over and doesn't think she should do anything to repair the MR, or to even let you look at her phone. In my book, you still have a wayward wife. Her heart has not soften b/c she has not ended her A.........or still has the OM in her head. Either way, she continues to get the benefits from you, without her commitment or responsibilities. I am not going to tell you to physically S, or not S, to end the limbo. That has to be your decision and responsibility. Think through your motivation carefully.

Before you do or say anything about a separation, you need to get legal advice to see where you would stand if you S. Don't do the "in-house" S, b/c you have been essentially living in that mode already. In-house S is terrible and more like a prison sentence, than a solution. It would solve absolutely nothing in your case. So, talk to a lawyer about protecting yourself. See if you would have to financially support her, etc.

Stop going to counseling with her, until she makes it known that she really is willing to do what is necessary to save the M. The MC is not going to fix the unwilling heart of a wayward.

I think you have looked at your situation as though her waywardness has ended and she should be ready to work on the MR. I think she is just covering her A.

If she does not work, then you pay for her cell phone, right?

[Jug]

Thanks once again sandi! Everything you wrote looks spot on to me. We haven't and I won't go to mc until things change. I know what legal s entails and we have discussed it. She has let me look at her phone since saying that she won't allow any more audits but I don't totally trust her. The big question: do tthe standard db tactics have a chance if I gut things out?

I pay for the phone and see that I might as well s if I'm going to take it away.

[Jug]

Stated differently, is s the only possible (I know nothing is guaranteed) solution to end the limbo?

[doodler]

Stated differently, is s the only possible (I know nothing is guaranteed) solution to end the limbo?

There is that other thing, but you have to know a guy that knows a guy.

[Gordie]

It gets crazier. She wants you to continue loving her......and actually be happy for her in her new relationship/affair. Her thinking is like, "Can we all just be good friends"? She probably won't tell you those blunt words

This is exactly what my W says to me.

[Jug]

Stated differently, is s the only possible (I know nothing is guaranteed) solution to end the limbo?

There is that other thing, but you have to know a guy that knows a guy.

You don't HAVE TO know people for that...