A WW? (6)

[ForGump]

Extreme sensitivity to lights or other sensory stimulation is a symptom of some mental health conditions....

[lt0402]

Hawk, yep, D is doing better than she was earlier in this thing. She doesn't seem nearly as anxious or on edge as she was in the first couple months. Unsure if it's me, my W, or some combination of us, but it makes me rest a little easier.

CT, thank you as always for the kind words. I know that being a perfect dad is impossible to attain, but I'll be damned if I don't fight my hardest to get there every day from here on out. Your W is right that you are an inspiring individual and father as well brother. I think we all see that in you here too.

FG, my W has had some combination of OCD, hypochondria, and anxiety ever since I've known her. I've spent a lot of time throughout our R trying to help alleviate the anxiety she feels by following her rules, OCD behaviors, etc. What I'm learning is that by pandering to her anxiety I've actually fueled it.

I've had some interesting discussions with my IC around anxiety the past couple sessions and it's helped me better understand. The OCD is a way of my W trying to fight her anxiety w/o actually addressing it. By creating absurdly detailed structure in her life she believes she can maintain absolute control of as many things as possible, hence minimizing the possibility for uncertainty. The problem with that, of course, is that life is full of uncertainty. If someone is not equipping themselves to deal with that uncertainty in a healthy way then the anxiety never goes away and just builds. The rigidity of the OCD fuels the anxiety bc the slightest deviation from the "rules" spikes the anxiety levels.

My IC said, ideally, I should have been working to fight through the anxiety with my W. By pandering to her OCD I merely fueled the anxiety. I should have partnered with her to help her through it. He says that's very common in Ms where someone has anxiety issues. The spouse changes their behavior to keep down the levels of anxiety of the other spouse. All very unhealthy for everyone involved. At least I know more about this now.

We talked about the blinds last weekend and my W flipping out about them. My IC told me that by re-opening the blinds, explaining why I was doing so, and then empathizing w/ her anxiety and agreeing to let her close them, I was actually helping her stand up to her anxiety. Creating a safe space for her and saying that I'm here to help you fight that anxiety. Had I let her close them and not done anything, I would have been abandoning her to her anxiety.

So....I get it, but it's very foreign to me. High level all of the above makes sense to me, but that way of thinking seems surreal. I guess it's bc I've never suffered through such intense anxiety issues, but who knows.

What I do know is that some of my actions and her reactions probably support my ICs view of her anxiety. When I stand for something I know to be right and don't waver, my W seems to be less confrontational after awhile. Not friendly, but seemingly less stressed about whatever that issue may be. My IC does think that my W thought she could manipulate me and run me over throughout this thing. With his and all ya'lls help, though, that has not been the case and my IC believes that's causing her to rethink things.

To your other question around the sensitivity to lights FG, she doesn't like having a lot of lights on in the house. I'm the opposite and like having every light on for some reason. Down in our family room right now, she only has a table lamp on, on the medium setting. She also doesn't like having the blinds open too much. Additionally she gets on D and I for "shouting" so much (I'm a naturally loud talker, though not overly so) and doesn't like having the television above what I'd consider to be a quiet level. Also she leaves the room when D and I are horsing around bc it bothers her.

I think these are all driven by the anxiety, but am open to other thoughts. I'm still learning about this stuff and again, it's very foreign to me.

Surfer, the Gman one is The Science of Trust. I'm listening to it right now and it's been a major help. Sorry to hear about your brother and his W. Brutal how common all of this stuff is. On your W not allowing you to help her w/ depression, I know my W would fight tooth and nail were I to approach her about helping with anxiety. I did offer that she take the MC up on her offer for IC around her anger and anxiety. That went over like a ton of bricks. If my W wants to have healthy Rs going forward (especially w/ my D) then she needs to work through her issues. I don't have a lot of hope for that unfortunately. That said, I know that I've had my issues as well so by no means am I pawning this off on my W. I'm just choosing to work through mine and am making good progress while she stays in neutral/reverse.

Surfer, my experience was like yours at the parent/teacher conference. We made a very good team in there. To be honest, when we have a common goal we tend to work very well together. Now that our goals have become divergent, though, those opportunities are few and far between.

JR, I sure hope so my friend. I'm trying to be as stable a presence as I can for my D. W has calmed down and is no longer eagerly provoking confrontation so that has helped as well. Trying to show her a strong and confident father every day.

some quick journaling here. it's been a long, exhausting week. the election surprise had me up late on Tuesday evening (3:30 am) for work. ever since then I feel like I've been running on empty. the good news, though, is I didn't get the larger emotional swings that normally accompany the tiredness. I was able to stay relatively balanced all week. Score one for having a better understanding of how this stuff works!

The downside to being tired all week is that I probably wasn't as there for my D as I'd like to be. Recharging this weekend so I can hit my stride again w/ her. Taking her out to a park near here to see some animals and hunt some pokemon tomorrow. She's also saved up enough allowance to "adopt" one of the animals out there for the year (helps support the care of the animal at the park). We're both really looking forward to that!

Anyways, appreciate ya'lls thoughts and support as always! This week was brutal w/ work, but I should be more present around here this week. Thanks again and know you are all appreciated!!!

[cheesyt]

I just caught up on your stitch.

I'm glad you can realize or notice when you feel you're not "there for my D".

" Trying to show her a strong and confident father every day." that's all you can do. I like where your head is at in that sense.

hang in there my friend!

[hawker]

Lt....you are a great dad and I think it has to be rough with your W's different anxiety and OCD issues. I think it is great that you are trying to learn more about these issues and how you can deal with them without pushing your W's buttons or driving her further away.

Keep being your awesome, confident self!!! We are here for you!!!

[DonH]

LT, I'm so glad you are learning about and understanding more about Ws anxiety. From everything you have reported over the months, that is clearly going in with W. While it's great you are starting to understand, the downside may be that W may never have been a good choice in a partner. Her behavior screams of someone agonized with anxiety. The good thing is, this often can be treated with medication and therapy (behavior modification). Of course W will fist have to admit to it and then be willing to get it treated.

Your IC has already given you some great comments and insight. Taking it all a bit farther, what's going on inside of her is constant termoil. She is tourchored by it 24/7. So to try to get just a few moments of calm she will do the things you've described like meds at a certain minute, drapes, volume of speech, etc. then when she takes action on any of these, for a brief moment, she breaths a sigh of relief and gets a moment of calm. She feels in control fir a short time This is what OCD behaviors do. The anxiety rises until they do a ritual like turning a light switch off and on 10 times. This irrational act brings calm to them. The problem is, it always returns. It's never ending until treated. This is why playing along actually makes it worse! But until it gets treated it will never end.

This is also why W wants it dark with shades closed. It's her way of crawling under the covers. It's her safe zone. It's obvious. So you, not knowing any better, tried to make it better for her by learning how to do her crazy things. Rather than state that D will be just fine getting her meds an hour late, you wanted to try to learn how to do it Ws crazy way. You now understand how destructive this was. Thing is, she now has to face all of this. Will she be willing? If not, will you be willing to live in crazy land just to stay M?

There is zero doubt in my mind you are in the complete right path here. W has to get help for this. If she does, she will live such a better life. Imagine being torchbearer like this every day, having to search for whatever relief she can get from moment to moment yet it never really ends.

Hopefully W will try meds and behavior modification treatment. If she will, things can get much much better for the both of you.

[CT1118]

It0402,

Your sitch is heavy reading to catch up on when I miss a few days, but always worth it. You do such a great job in your writing: detail, script, word choices. I know you think it means more to you to put it out there, but you have also been here long enough to know how much it helps the rest of us. I thought about the above point tonight...a while back I was reading something here, it was old, but I believe Cadet mentioned the old thread was gone. I opened up a blank word document and began cut/pasting some things from threads which helped me as I read them. I was pasting one of your comments in tonight, it was inspiring in just how 'day in the life' succinct it was.

That said, on your sitch:

Your IC has already given you some great comments and insight. Taking it all a bit farther, what's going on inside of her is constant termoil. She is tourchored by it 24/7.

DonH is correct about the medication. My 1st W was OCPD (different from OCD). She began treatment when we were in D - the damage was done and we were very young anyway. I read something on DB MLC forum in early September, a poster said that if they could go back and tell their first W from their twenties that they were sorry they would do it. Inspired, I looked up my 1st W on FB, wrote her a note, and apologized. Not sure I had too, but even though the depth of me still felt like it was a 20/80 my fault/her fault, I did it anyway, then I apologized for the catharsis I was seeking. She responded with overwhelming apology, which is not what I was seeking. We spoke for hours that night, via text, contact ended the night it began, but one of the things she told me was about the OCPD and how brutal the past years following had been on her to get treatment and learn mechanical and chemical therapy for this. But she said she is better and is now in a functional long term R.

So, if you are right about OCD, DonH is right about treatment, but it takes treatment. I did not share this story as a model (you know me better by now). Just some food for thought, perhaps some hope in a small way. This all sks so bad at times. Reading your insight, your strength, and your journey helps me on my own It0402.

The above said, we already know how sitch's overlap:

it's been a long, exhausting week. the election surprise had me up late on Tuesday evening (3:30 am) for work. ever since then I feel like I've been running on empty.

The downside to being tired all week is that I probably wasn't as there for my D as I'd like to be. Recharging this weekend so I can hit my stride again w/ her.

I was up till 4am watching it myself and it jacked up the entire week. I only had s5 once this week, but felt like I was not as present as I could have been. This stuff is going to happen I suppose brother. Big kid problems, right? I tip my glass of water in your direction right now...here's to great fathers. Read you next weekend my friend.

[J5K]

lt,

I am glad to hear you are learning a lot from your IC about your W. I have learned a lot from what you posted. I know my XW is OCD, possibly has anxiety or God knows what else. They never want to admit they may have issues though.

I also like a bright room where xW does not. It is amazing how there are bits and pieces of each other's sitches that are similar.

Keep up the good work brother!

[lt0402]

Cheesyt, yeah, I'm trying to get a better sense of myself so I can realize when I'm not where I want to be. Still a wok in progress but I caught myself a few times this week not fully where I wanted to be when interacting with my D. Made up for it this weekend I think and I'm well rested going into next week!

Hawk, thank you as always for the encouragement! It's interesting but I'm finding I can no longer avoid pushing some of my Ws buttons. It seems like some buttons are going to get pushed as I no longer allow her anxiety to drive my D and My actions. I won't go out of my way to push them but I will stand for what is right and I think that'll push some buttons. I'm not sure yet if that'll drive her further away or not though. I do know it's the right thing to do. Strength and honor as Mules would say.

Donh, I always like it when you show up in my thread. It's a great (and sometimes 2x4ish :)) reality check for me and your insights have been invaluable in getting to this point and are very much appreciated.

I'm not sure my W will ever address her anxiety issues. She has always viewed counseling as garbage and after the MC session I don't think her mind has changed. It's very sad, bc I agree with you that she could benefit immensely. I find myself worried that as the years pass my W will instill some of that anxiety in my D and be an anchor on her into her later years. At that point, what is currently my storm becomes that of my D as well. I'm unwilling to allow that to happen.

I'm at a point where I do find myself wondering what am I willing to put up with and stay M to my W. I'm unwilling to have a third person in our M. I'm unwilling to have W drive a wedge by D and I. I'm unwilling to be disrespected by my W. I'm unwilling for either my W or I to be unhappy in the future. I've thought so much about what I'm unwilling to accept that I'm not sure what I'd be willing to accept. I guess I'd be willing to deal with some level of crazy so long as my W is able to recognize and adjust to fix it. I would never again abandon her to her anxiety like I have in the past. Again, I don't know that she's willing to do the work or get the help though. I do know that I am unwilling for Ws anxiety to drive my family anymore.

I cannot begin to imagine the anguish she is in. It hurts me to think that she's been dealing with this for so long. I wish I'd understood all this sooner bc maybe I could have helped her earlier. At this point though, i know I'm one of the factors in her mind that she cannot control. I know that her response to that is to get me out of the picture. I think she's realizing that I won't leave the picture and she's scrambling to figure out how to get me back in line. I don't know what'll happen but it does seem like at some point the dam has to break. Working on myself so I can be a rock for my D when it does.

All that said I need to continue learning about anxiety so I can try to help where possible. Attunement, etc I can practice on others around me. Hopefully at some point I can use those on my W. Right now though it seems like I've got to lasso this anxiety stuff and do what I can to help her.

So a couple things are sitting in my court right now. First is the issue of co-parenting counseling. I think I still want to do this. I cancelled last Thursday's first joint session bc of W saying she wanted to do MC again. Second is the issue of MC. W seemed to "capitulate" last weekend to staying in the MR. She wanted us to cancel coparenting and go back to MC.

My thoughts are to rebook the coparenting sessions. I think we need help splitting the workload with parenting D. I think these sessions may help us to better cooperate.

My thoughts on the MC are mixed. The only MC session we had was a bloodbath. I felt like I was ganged up on and W took me there under false pretenses. If we go back I need a different MC for us to use. No help from my IC on this one but I'm going to ask the coparenting counselor if she has a recommendation.

W also told me today that she may go to a friends baby shower on Sunday. It's 3 hrs away and again in the OMs neck of the woods. She says she may drive there early Sunday am and come home Sunday afternoon. Gut tells me it'd be her 3rd OM trip. W hates baby showers but she was going to use one for first visit to see OM in May.

So that is what it is. But it presents a dilemma. I'm unwilling to stay in a M where my W is unfaithful. She says she wants to stay married and do MC, but I'm uncertain of the reasons. I can't trust my W that this trip is what she says it is bc recent history says it's not. Hell, right now I'm in a wierd spot where I'm not sure we can stay M. Really kind of hazy on my thoughts around this right now. Not bc of her "trip" but more so bc of how I'm feeling.

Prior to her capitulating last weekend I was set to fight for custody of my D and move on. Not bc I don't want to be M to my W but bc she did not want to be married to me. If we split and she decided at some point to rejoin D and I then we could re-evaluate that at the appropriate time. I didnt want to abandon my W but that seemed like where she was hell bent on going and I wasn't going to stop her.

Now she's pulled me back into her sphere of influence by saying we can stay M and go back to MC. I'm not sure what's driving this but a few things come to mind:

1. She realizes she can't make it work financially
2. She realizes how disruptive it'd be to my D
3. She knows the only way to control my actions and repress anxiety is to have me close
4. Something has happened with OM (don't think so)
5. She thinks she can gut out a few more years, build a better case, and then bail

I don't know but my brain is trying to make sense of things. She practically forced D to go to a friends house with her tonight. I think this is bc she wanted to hang out with another recently S mom (the husband of this woman is the one constantly texting my W). For what releasing I also don't know but I found my brain circling the thought that they could move in together, keep one of the houses and keep the kids in the same school zone.

It's funny but all of this doesn't swing my emotions anymore. It's almost like contingency planning for an emergency. Working through different scenarios and how they'd play out and I'd prepare for them. Only these scenarios are more wrapped around custody of my D and not saving my M. The other scenarios I'm grinding through are how to confront my Ws anxiety, but I'm unsure if those will be M savers either.

So I'm in this strange land of quasi DB mixed with who knows what. Working to make sense of it all and find a more defined path. I've no doubt I'll figure it out but I think I've let myself spin my wheels for a bit. The Ws baby shower ask today was a good reminder that there's still a fight going on and I need to get my gloves back up. This week I kick it back into gear.

Thanks all for your thoughts and support!!

[DonH]

Glad my comments help. I just wanted to add that while both medication AND therapy often provide the most relief, medication by itself can often make a solid improvement. I'm in no way an MD and even if I was, I can't give your W a diagnosis over the Internet but Lexipro might be a good starting point for anxiety. There usually are minimal side effects and it can really help with anxiety. Another common treatment today is to combine several meds together - things like Lunesta or even Wellbutrin in combo with the Lexipro could bring a marked improvement. The good thing here is her primary doc could start her in these with no need to go to sessions, etc. due to the low or no abuse potential and low side effects, many docs are willing to give it a try. I gave no idea how to bring thus up to W but at least if you know, perhaps your IC or others including here can suggest how to get W to consider it. I'm willing to bet it could help and certainly would not hurt. If it doesn't work after three months, stop or try something else.

[mvgfwd2]

Did she say "...we can stay married..."? You may want to ask what staying married looks like to her. If it's essentially an in-house separation and no attempt to really reconcile then continuing with MC is kind of pointless, isn't it? What would it do other than help you determine how to live together in a less toxic manner. Doesn't sound very appealing to me. IMO, she is either in, all the way in, or out, all the way out. There really isn't much middle ground in a healthy marriage. And I'm not saying being all the way in is just all roses, I mean full commitment to the M and all the good and challenges that go with it. But definitely no OM or even thinking about an OM.

Be wary of friends that are D'd or S's or ones that advocate it. They are poison to a M and will supply a constant source of anti-M garbage. Need to find more positive influences for healthy relationships.