Still hanging on ... just

[Oluwa]

Don't ask her for what! Detach and give space. I found with my WW that if I asked about a Drs appt I was often accused of prying into her business and trying to control her. Yea....I know.

Hey, yes this sounds familiar. If I did directly say, like why did you go to the doctors, she would say why are you asking, your so controlling.

Before all this mess, asking someone about why they went to the doctor and how they are, was considered a caring action and a sign of thinking about your partner. But not in the Twilight Zone of WAS. lol....

[Oluwa]

Oluma,

Why do spouses always miss these opportunities? You did this all wrong. You never to say "you're fine." What you do is look into her ear and mumble something incoherent. Then you say, "Wait right here." Leave the room and get a pair of needle nose pliers, a sharp knife and some rubbing alcohol. When you return to the room, make sure she sees the pliers, knife and alcohol. Then say, "This is going to hurt."

That's DB at its best.

Great Doodler...You're right a definite opportunity missed there. I did make the joke that when I shined the torch in her ear I could see the pillow on the other side of the bed. She didn't get the joke.

Doodler seen quite a few of your posts around, great sense of humour, something we definitely need around here. Keep 'em coming!

[Oluwa]

No - That's doodling at it's worst

Sorry for the hijack - doodler - you never visit any more. You should pop over and take a spin on the bicycle some time. I'm in the middle of losing a bet with Coly and Altair and need you to sabotage them.

Hey AndrewP, no worries, feel free to Hijack.

[Oluwa]

So have had to be up early last 2 mornings and with late nights have been getting quite tired. Still suffering from trapped nerve or something shoulder, which is interfering with my Yoga, Running, Aikido and Job. Damn you middle-aged body, you will comply to me demands ....

Have been keeping my distance compared to the last few years of the marriage. Things were pleasant at home today as we prepared for our Halloween Party. It's funny, but I feel less affectionate towards her as I feel I am trying to detach. In turn, she doesn't seem to be very close to me, this is always the fear, where I panic and thing I am driving her further away. As I keep saying, it makes sense, as I haven't consciously detached for all this time and we still seem to be in the same spot, so I don't think I have anything to lose, but it is tough. I have spent over a year, accepting the breadcrumbs she throws out when she feels she has to.

I did suffer today at work, lots of thoughts about the marriage and relationship and how I wish we weren't where we are. Last night when we were chatting I looked over at her and still felt such strong loving emotions towards her. She is still so beautiful to me, but she is beautiful towards me anymore, and I don't know how to get rid of the feelings of love for her so I can detach properly.

Its a learning process I guess, to change relationship habits of so many years, I can't expect to be different in a week!

[sandi2]

Thanks Sandi, this was the clarification I was seeking. You sent me the link about how a spouse can lose respect for their H, which is very relevant in my case. It discussed how you need to concentrate on being a man, rather than trying to be a good H at this time. But there were alot of suggested actions there, and some of them were definitely only relevant for a wife having an A. You stated : "Therefore, the H's response to those actions should be a much tougher love comparable to a W who is not in an A".

I believe waywardness is born in a heart of disrespect and resentment (and we could add other things, but those two areas are what I have observed as the common denominator in waywardness).

To clarify part of your confusion, hopefully, let me explain that we commonly see stories here where the WW is in full rebellion and involved in an A. (She may be displaying some other type of open rebellion, but affairs are typically what we see on the board). When the H has become aware of the A, and the W refuses to end the A and/or contact with her OM..........is when I believe he needs to enforce a tougher-love stance.

The purpose of the tougher love with a WW is not to be mean, punitive, vindictive, etc. She has to see her H acting from a place of inner strength; manliness; confidence; and the leader and head in his own household. She has to see that he will not tolerate her b.s. He won't be manipulated, bullied, etc. Yes, it initially makes her furious......but inwardly, the disrespect begins to die and be replaced with new seeds of respect for this strong male standing before her. And b/c a woman has to respect her H before she can feel attracted to him......those feelings will start to sprout again. Make sense?

Im probably going to get flamed here, but is not asking about her day part of detachment. Like am I doing the right thing in showing less interest in what she is doing. I'm a long way from detaching fully, because even going into the MBR, is my temperature checking, as much as I would like to deny it.

Detaching is a mindset, IMHO. She should see you as if you are distracted by something other than her. And yes, she can tell when you are looking for a reaction.....or temp checking her. As counterintuitive as it seems, when she sees she is not the center of your every waking minute......it causes her to focus a little bit on you. She's curious, and may temp check you, in order to assure herself that you are firmly attached to her.

Here's the thing with a lot of WW's, okay? She may think she no longer wants to be your wife.......but she still wants you to be available to her, and she wants to continue receiving the benefits, without the commitment or responsibility from her.

Again, she doesn't have to be in an A to qualify as wayward. It's what's in her heart. If she no longer respects you as a man/husband, it will show in some way. If you have a record of caving to everything she wants, and allow her to pretty much run the show in the home & the MR.......and if you have the NGS......she may want to keep you for her BFF. She can have several friends, but only one can be her H. You need to stabilize your position as the H, first.

[Oluwa]

Thanks Sandhi. It does make so much sense and I am SURE it is what has happenef in our MR. Not sure if she understands that that is why she hasnt fallen out of love though. By the way what does NGS stand for ?

[Oluwa]

*has fallen out if love

[sandi2]

It is nice guy syndrome.

[Oluwa]

She has to see her H acting from a place of inner strength; manliness; confidence; and the leader and head in his own household. She has to see that he will not tolerate her b.s. He won't be manipulated, bullied, etc. Yes, it initially makes her furious......but inwardly, the disrespect begins to die and be replaced with new seeds of respect for this strong male standing before her. And b/c a woman has to respect her H before she can feel attracted to him......those feelings will start to sprout again. Make sense?

It does make alot of sense and I guess I do not have any choice. I did sleep in the MBR saturday night after our halloween party, as we had kids staying over. Party was ok, but i didn't end up running most of the games that I planned, because I felt there weren't enough people. I think she was let down by this, and yes I shouldn't care, but part of me running the party was to show that I could do things and organize events etc. So I felt quite sad that I probably didn't do as well as I should of. People commented on how great decorations etc were, and my wife said that I organized everything and they said like, oh you really must get your husband to coach mine.

There was no hugs/cuddles this weekend again, normally I would ask for one or move over when there hasn't been anything for a week or two, but i didnt do that, and now she isnt coming to me. I don't know if this detaching is working, as it does seem to be pushing her away more. I know its only been a week since I came on this board.

Possibly you are right that she will start to notice more and become curious. She was moody when I got back from work, probably because she was tired. I slept in Home theatre, but got up around 4am to toilet. When I was going back to Home Theatre, she came out of the bedroom and said, "what are you doing making noise?" I said, "I went to the toilet. She said stop banging about you idiot!". I decided to go and sleep in the MBR now I knew she was awake, but I couldn't settle for a few minutes and decided to leave again, she said "Dont come in here again!", "I said don't worry I won't!". Anyway, back to me coming back from work, she said "Do you want your food now?" in a angry way, I said "Yes!", then I asked her which one is it ? She said, "It obvious isnt it!". I said, "well you might be eating too!", she went on to say "Well you have more food so its obvious which one is yours". I said "You know, the amount of energy you expended there to explain why I should have known which food was mine, you could have saved all that and pointed and said that one!." She mumbled something, but left it. I then said I had fixed her watch, which she asked me to do a week ago, guess I should not have fixed it? Anyway she was happy had done it and said thank you.

She went to bed early and I stayed away from her all evening, catching up on some finance stuff.

Detaching is a mindset, IMHO. She should see you as if you are distracted by something other than her. And yes, she can tell when you are looking for a reaction.....or temp checking her. As counterintuitive as it seems, when she sees she is not the center of your every waking minute......it causes her to focus a little bit on you. She's curious, and may temp check you, in order to assure herself that you are firmly attached to her.

Its a very difficult mindset for me, as it is so counterinituitive. As a definite Nice Guy and pursuer, to detach is against my normal nature and it makes no sense (in my normal mindset) that this would cause her to move closer to me. Certainly it looks like its having the opposite effect at the moment.

Here's the thing with a lot of WW's, okay? She may think she no longer wants to be your wife.......but she still wants you to be available to her, and she wants to continue receiving the benefits, without the commitment or responsibility from her.

Again, she doesn't have to be in an A to qualify as wayward. It's what's in her heart. If she no longer respects you as a man/husband, it will show in some way. If you have a record of caving to everything she wants, and allow her to pretty much run the show in the home & the MR.......and if you have the NGS......she may want to keep you for her BFF. She can have several friends, but only one can be her H. You need to stabilize your position as the H, first.

Yes this is exactly where we would seem to be at the moment. She does still use me as a friend, a person to help around the house etc and sometimes for company to watch TV or something like that. She seems to be stuck in wanting to leave, waiting for me to announce the separation, and just trying to get on with life ignoring what is happening.

So the only way I can go forward is to detach and stick up for myself. This will kill or cure of marriage. But I don't want to be doing this another year down the road. I just don't know if you can ever resolve this, as if she did decide to commit, it is only going to take her being depressed again that she may threaten to leave again.

[Oluwa]

Another thing I wanted to get peoples opinion on.

I have just done the Tax Return and we are going to get a reasonable amount. She has been talking before about wanting to go back home to Nigeria and Europe. This is going to cost us a fortune, money we don't really have. But the tax return is going to help alot, I havent submitted it yet as she will see it when it comes into the bank account.

I fear that this will cause her to believe that we can now go on that trip and she may string me along further so she can fund her holiday back to Nigeria. I hope she wouldn't be that devious, but you can't be sure with her behaviour anymore can you.

I would rather use the money to help us seperate if that is what she eventually wants. I thought of keeping it, and I could use it to rent a place for 6 months on a trial separation so she can really see how life is without me. This would help in my detachment.

But I do need to tell her about it soon, my friend says I should keep it a secret or she will definitely want to spend it. She has a track record of over-spending and I have enabled it over the years. But I am not happy about, stupid NGS.

Any advice ?