Still hanging on ... just

[Oluwa]

Not saying whos right or wrong here. But I wonder if you arent as "cured" as you say. Consider her comments from her perspective or your children's perspective. What might be perceived as anger even if you dont feel angry

Thanks darknes, this is a good point. I do feel I have improved alot, but I do rememeber a conversation with my S12 who said, you say you have changed and don't get angry anymore, but you haven't changed much at all. So clearly alot more work to do. Our whole family is hyper-sensitive to each others tone of voice, so any slight detection of anger/frustration will trigger the other person to say why are you getting angry, and the conversation then deteriorates into whether that person is angry or not, with the original reason for the conversation being lost as it were.

Again not saying that what you did was wrong. But it sounds like you are looking for her to come up with something. I think a better response would have been "Im not sure, but Id like to do some research about it." or something to that effect. Otherwise, it sounds like you just want her to change or fix something.

Well yes and no. What I am trying to do is say that we need a different approach, and I think I am trying to get her permission to try something different. Even now I am still able to have 1-on-1 with S12, D14 and S17 about sensitive things and they confide in me in general, which is something they do not feel comfortable doing with my wife. The problem is I can talk calmly to S12, but wife can come in ad make unilateral decisions in front of me while I discussing. Hers is it go straight to a punishment, rather than trying to look at source of problem.

I just know that much of the issues with our kids, especially S12, are because of how we deal with our kids. My wife however does not believe she has any hand in influencing their bad behaviour. If I ever try and go near that area of us as parents modifying behaviour I will get the sort of comment I got last night.

I do agree that I should just try a different approach and let the results speak for themselves, rather than trying to convince S of anything.

[Oluwa]

Not too bad, considering you are dealing with a 12 yr old boy being inappropriate.....and his mother, who is inappropriate!

It's very tough to not to let emotions come into play when trying to parent together, when she's angry and you are stressed. Has she always said such things about her child, or is that the way she talks since BD?

No, she has been pretty tough in the kids for a very long time, well before BD. It's a "tough love" from her, in that she is Nigerian and brought up in Nigeria with a very strict upbringing. She is one of 4 kids and her mother abandoned them at a young age and they were brought up largely by an elderly grandmother who was poor and very strict. Consequently, she believes in a strict upbringing, kids are kids until they are adults, she doesn't recognise them as teenagers who can have opinions. She would do anything for her kids, and her anger is coming from a place of care, in that she wants the best for them, but she doesn't know how to get that message across without the punishment if you make a mistake model.

Have you considered suggesting that you would be glad to deal with these young male issues with S12, if it will relieve her of the stress? IDK that it would work any better, and she might just blame you for anything S12 doesn't do correctly. However, she'll more than likely be angry, anyway, b/c that's part of her WW mindset. Just a thought.

Yes I have suggested this before. Like sometimes over the years she will go, "Can you deal with this child they did.......". Then when I am half way through talking to the child, she will swing back in and meter out a punishment while she just told me to deal with it. Also I have suggested before different approaches, but I will get things like "Like what...you are incapable of disciplining the kids". Lets see how it pans out with S12, I just think our inconsistent parenting messages is not helping him either.

While things are bad around home, I want to encourage you to watch yourself when you have the urge to "explain" things to her (especially when it has to do with her) and when you know she's already stewing about something. ..... A lot of H's have a tendency to try and over explain things, especially when they are use to having a mean W who will give him the devil.

Sandi this is spot on for me. I do have a tendency to talk too much and try to over explain. You will notice that even from my long posts :-) The 2 MC sessions we went to, she mentioned this that I like to talk to much and over explain stuff. This is defintely something I need to work on. I am always trying to justify myself or my actions, to convince her that what I am thinking/feeling is justified. Thanks for highlighting this to me.

What is your source of energy and inspiration? Music, long walks, motivational tapes, etc? Not only do you need to guard your physical health, but your emotional/mental/spiritual health, as well.

Well since all the problems I have quite a few. I do alot of running, trail running in the forest and yoga most days. I also do meditation, but have not done that for a few weeks for some reason. But my other main source of energy/motivation is listening and reading to personal development books. This is however one issue with this that I need to stick to one system and take proper actions. But for a boost in self-esteem/strength I will read. For example I am just reading "The Passion Trap" as mentioned on this forum and it is amazing, I think he wrote it just about me and how I have dealt with my relationship with my W.

[Oluwa]

Oluwa - Wow - your experience seems very similar to my own. It's kind of cathartic to read your entries.
Your issues/struggles with detachment and what exactly that looks like when still living with a chaotic spouse seem to parallel my own. I am hoping the book and the coaching help resolve the situation.

Hi TiredTN. Thanks for your comments. I dead read through your thread and there are alot of similarities as you say. I am new to the proper concept of fully detaching, and finding it hard, as I can't get it into my head that not interacting with my S, will improve the situation.

I have been out of the MBR for the whole week, and not trying to watch TV with her which is my normal pattern. So she will have noticed I am not hanging on to see if she will talk or move over to me. I realise that this pursuit is counter productive, but not fully ready to detach fully. I too am awaiting the DR book and will hope to get a better understanding then. I guess its not that I don't understand, its more that I still fear pushing the R over the edge to Separation. This is of course one of the reasons we are stuck in limbo!

[Oluwa]

Hi so not much contact again today as both at work. A few texts from her on kids stuff and emails. Nothing special, but I did not initiate contact and took my time with replies.

Got home after taking S12 to Soccer training. She came out to give us food and she made her own food at same time. So the 3 of us sat and ate together. I told her about a few things that happened today at work and also asked her about her Uni meeting last night. She talked about that quite a bit on the dinner table. I know I am meant to be detaching, is this the wrong thing to do to chat with her ?

After a while she went into the MBR to watch TV as is her routine. A little later I got an email from the soccer team to tell us that S12 has made it to the U14 Squad for next season, and he doesn't even have to trial. This is a big thing, as the team is the top your team in the state and this is his 3rd year now. This is first year he has got automatic entry.

I went to tell S, knowing that she would be over the moon, because she lives for S12 soccer and dreams of him having a career in it.
She went into Home Theatre and hugged him loads and said well done I am so happy you made the team. She went and got lots of chocolate and gave it to him. A total 180 from yesterday, where there was no hope for him. It is good news though and he has worked hard for it.

Once everything calms down she goes back to MBR, I talk a little bit with her about the news and then decide to leave as has been my plan each night this week. She doesn't say anything about me leaving.

I have to go back in to get some pain killers, which I have been taking intermittedly with shoulder and back pain. As I get them she says what is that, I say just the pain killers, she says that's what old people do, take pills for everything. This, I guess, should be seen as a joke, but she has mentioned my age before in R talks, so she knows I am sensitive as she has implied its one of the reasons she is no longer attracted to me, because I look older. She is 41, but probably looks 30 (not kidding). I just said, nah I only take them once in a while and my shoulder is hurting. So I didn't react/bite or get sensitive, just left the room. Was very pleased that I did that.

A bit later she called me to come to the MBR. I went in and she said, can you look in my ear with the torchlight, its always itchy and I am wondering if something is wrong. So I do that and say I can't see anything your fine. I leave the room and get on with plans for the halloween party.

So, not good for detachment again. But what is this calling me to check stuff etc, with the way I start to think after reading so many forums, is this a) A simple request to help her, b) a manipulation to test if I am still going to engage whenever she asks me, is she testing the temperature, c) So minor an incident I should just get over myself and not over analyse it!

[Oluwa]

Oh! One quick thing, during the day I emailed her about picking something up for the party. She said that she was planning to take Friday off and has a doctor's appointment tommorrow.

She hadn't told me until today and I don't know why she is going. It's maybe to talk about her mental state and what depressants she is on. She is taking a small does of Escitalopram which she has been taking for 3 months now. Back then she finally went to an IC, but all that stupid IC did was put her on the tablets and she has never gone back.

The doctors visit may also be about sleep issues. I don't know, and normally I would ask to see if she is ok. But this is pursuing behaviour, I need to wait for her to decide to tell me about it.

Ok time to bed. Thanks for taking the time to read my ramblings. It really is helping to discuss in this way. Sorry that I always write so much.

[sandi2]

She hadn't told me until today and I don't know why she is going.

Maybe it's for the itchy ear.

[j20a00g]

Don't ask her for what! Detach and give space. I found with my WW that if I asked about a Drs appt I was often accused of prying into her business and trying to control her. Yea....I know.

[doodler]

A bit later she called me to come to the MBR. I went in and she said, can you look in my ear with the torchlight, its always itchy and I am wondering if something is wrong. So I do that and say I can't see anything you're fine.

Oluma,

Why do spouses always miss these opportunities? You did this all wrong. You never to say "you're fine." What you do is look into her ear and mumble something incoherent. Then you say, "Wait right here." Leave the room and get a pair of needle nose pliers, a sharp knife and some rubbing alcohol. When you return to the room, make sure she sees the pliers, knife and alcohol. Then say, "This is going to hurt."

That's DB at its best.

[AndrewP]

Oluma,

Why do spouses always miss these opportunities? You did this all wrong. You never to say "you're fine." What you do is look into her ear and mumble something incoherent. Then you say, "Wait right here." Leave the room and get a pair of needle nose pliers, a sharp knife and some rubbing alcohol. When you return to the room, make sure she sees the pliers, knife and alcohol. Then say, "This is going to hurt."

That's DB at its best.

No - That's doodling at it's worst

Sorry for the hijack - doodler - you never visit any more. You should pop over and take a spin on the bicycle some time. I'm in the middle of losing a bet with Coly and Altair and need you to sabotage them.

[Oluwa]

Maybe it's for the itchy ear.

Lol....Sandi yes it could well have been. Don't know, she hasn't metioned it this evening. She has been busy on her day off buying all the stuff for cooking for the Halloween Party we are putting on tommorrow night.

She said that I will need to help her cook an decorate food tomorrow. Thats ok, I set up lights, smoke machine and decorations this evening while her and S12 watched soccer match. Normally would watch with them, but things to do, and don't want to be hanging around her.