Her MLC: The Battle I Didn't Choose

[ericmsant2]

Brubeck

ericmsant2 - what I learned is that while I am still having trouble internalizing all this, you can always shut up.

So I guess we can chalk this up to a lesson learned?


Damn dude….sounds like you had a rip roaring Friday night.

What I am about to say may be contrary to some advice that you get on here.

1) Go see a lawyer. Protect yourself and your children.
2) Knowledge is power.
3) Child support is a formula – your lawyer will be able to confirm that.
4) Stop talking to her or even responding. A simple – I am not ready to discuss this – is suffice.
5) Keep being the best dad you can be.
6) Journal, journal, journal.
7) Her outbreaks in front of the kids is a no no and should be journaled. I would suggest when she is on one of these rants that she tone it donw in front of the kids.
8) Question to you…… what is it that YOU want (and I get the whole her pulling her head out her arse)?

I loaded up all my Mary J. Blige albums on the mp3. Damn, I forgot about her!

Damn I should have tried her….I was into Eminem when I was dealing with my sitch…

[MrBond]

"I agree that I shouldn't put them in between us, and I don't believe I am."

You don't think you're putting them between you two, but you are. Your resentment (which is understandable) is building in you and creating a wedge.

"She is using them - she has gone so dark that she doesn't communicate about school activities."

How is this using them? Just because she's asking you for money for support isn't using them.

"When something happens regarding school activities that requires my assistance, I ask why am I being asked to participate in this at the last minute only to provide relief or support that nobody else can? She just gets frustrated and says "well you should have asked me about this." That's right, ask about something I didn't know was occurring in the first place. Makes sense."

If you are doing something for the kids, then do it for the kids because you want to. Not as a way to keep score or to nitpick what she does or say.

"My derogatory comment about her is a reflection of her as a W, not a mother."

If you keep seeing that as how she is, then it will affect your view of her as a mother. You already are by your "she's using them (the kids)" statement.

"I think my W is a slut."

Again, I get the anger. So why don't you just end it? If you don't figure a way to get rid of the anger and resentment, the pressure builds. That's why you haven't made any positive steps with your W's interactions.

"She wakes up one day and decides it would be more fulfilling to be a slut than be my wife. I'm not at the 'shrugging my shoulders' point of it yet."

If you really believe that it happened "all of the sudden", then you haven't learned anything.

[Brubeck]

Ok, just a confused half-rant here...

Did a bit of snooping (I know, I know...) Haven't been able to listen in 3 weeks since W went back to work. I don't know that she's spoken to 3 lawyers, but I do know she spoke to the L that handled her sister's D (who subsequently remarried her H). The L asked for $5000 that my W clearly doesn't have, so she asked again for half. My W is hemming and hawing about asking her mother for the $2500. She doesn't want to get her mother involved and is fearful her mother will refuse to give her the money anyway. She's already afraid her mother is halfway to quitting the babysitting job my W is paying her for.

She was relaying this information while on the phone with the OM (and today's his birthday, doesn't this guy have a life?) The strange thing is she's telling him about our Friday night argument and her version of that story is also full of LIES. She's always hedging that I'm going to fight her over the house when I have no intention of doing so. We've never discussed possession of the house other than my affirmation that who's paying for it weighs more than who's on the title. She invented that she had some amicable plan to split the sale of the house but I refused to hear it. She's never mentioned anything about the future of the house in any discussion. It's never happened except in her mind.

She also embellished other parts of our argument. I interrupted her only to point out the faulty math in her child support proposal. I kept quiet when she discussed her feelings and her plans. In her version to OM, I raised my voice most of the time and interrupted her every point in the conversation. The conversation was typical of her MLC spew - I put up calm resistance at first, but as the talk progressed I kept quiet and let her ramble, validating whenever she asked if I had anything to say. Her version of the argument was exaggerated b.s.

In all her conversations with others about our sitch, I notice how she NEVER mentions the kids. Ever. This worries me. She never worries how they're going to be. I wonder if our sons seem to her like dishes or laundry; things that must be dealt with. She continues to insist on helping S8 with his homework every day, and she continues to blow her fuse in less than 5 minutes when he doesn't get the gist of things right away. I wonder why she just doesn't give up and have me do it. She's tuned out so much else around here.

I found a D lawyer that specializes in father's rights. He charges $125 for a 1 hour consultation. I think that's fair. I will see this guy next weekend.

[Kyh]

Hi Brubeck,

Glad to read you found an attorney. I think I mentioned it before but keep a journal of your w's actions if your not already. My w too seemed not worried about the kids, telling me they were resilient and would be fine. I think they have to tell themselves that to justify themselves, seems par for the course.

[Esame]

Brubeck maybe we need to see our spouses belief of how the children are / will cope as another side effect of their MLC and their inability to think logically. My H (who is generally a decent and honest guy) justified the impact on the kids as acceptable because we moved around so much in the past and we didn't give the kids stability. So his answer to not give the kids stability was to wreck their life by removing the only constant they knew off, their family structure. We have move a lot, and we have no family nearby, so it has always been us (and visits from grandparents etc). But apparently we have done such a bad job as parents so far that it's ok for him to go. I couldn't grasp the logic in that, but I'm just mentioning it to you as an example of the foggy logic of an MLCer.

Great news that you found a lawyer, I hope it all works out for you

[Brubeck]

Holy F%&k am I wound up right now. This is one nervous Friday morning I'm having.

Quick re-cap. I set up private checking & savings accounts, moved out the savings, and set up direct deposit for my new account. Joint checking is still open with $400 left. Even though she received her 1st paycheck on Monday, she continues to use the joint debit card for private purposes (more clothes, lunch & dinner with friends).

The bank will let me close the account by myself, but they won't let me do it with pending transactions, which she continues to make. I don't think she's going to stop. I had no choice but to take her debit card from her purse last night...Immediately into the paper shredder. I felt bad for going into her purse, but she has no qualms about going into my wallet without my knowledge to take my bus card to use on mornings when she can't find hers.

I confronted her this morning about something she did Wednesday night. That night I had a scheduled consultation with a D lawyer and told my W I would be late getting home, closer to 7 pm. She asked me to get home as soon as possible because she was going to dinner directly after work and didn't want her mother stuck with the boys all night. Turns out, dinner was postponed an hour so she came home and let her mother go. She called me in the middle of my consultation at 6:30 pm barking about when I was going to get home.

I was getting home later than expected from the lawyer's office because of downtown traffic. I was going 70 mph on the express lane of the freeway while she is literally calling my cell EVERY MINUTE. I can't pick up while I'm driving so fast. She calls 13 times in 15 minutes. I call her when I get off the freeway. She's barking even more about why I'm late and keeping her there when I had no clue she came home in the first place because she didn't tell me. She just repeats "You're a f$#king a$$hole!" over and over. "You did this to screw me over, because everything you do is to say "f$&k you <W's name>". Then she says, "I'm done, I'm leaving."

I get home 10 minutes later, S8 and S4 are by themselves. S3 is down in the basement apartment with MIL. She's gone. W texts me that she's cutting hair and won't be home until 10 pm. She gets home at a quarter to midnight. I say nothing. Yesterday, she gets home and spends the entire evening on our front steps talking on her cell. I say nothing.

This morning I confront her in the bathroom with the door closed. I tell her immediately to never abandon our children like that. Monster comes out to spew immediately. Denial, avoidance, switching topics, you name it...screaming an inch from my face.

We go back and forth. I bring up S8's birthday, in which she left S8, S4, S3 and the 6 year old she was babysitting alone in the house to go buy pizza with MLC Friend #1. She was gone for all of 10 minutes, but I ask "how long does it take for one of them to get critically injured or KILLED?" She just keeps screaming over and over "They were fine!" I scream over and over "Don't leave our kids unattended."

I get into the shower. S3 is now awake and screaming on the other side of the bathroom door. W just keeps repeating "I f%#king hate you. I hate you. I hate you." She keeps turning the water faucet off. Her mother comes upstairs and knocks on the bathroom door. W opens the door and offers some explanation, but it's in Spanish, and I'm too upset to focus on translating what W is saying to her mother. I repeat to W without screaming "I don't want you to leave our kids alone when you go out" so MIL can hear what I'm arguing about. W says to me "you better shut up now because my mother is getting ready to call the police."

I'm standing naked in the shower, so I cover the lower half of my body with the shower curtain. I lean forward and to the right so MIL can see my face as she's standing outside the bathroom. As calmly as I can, I say to MIL - "Mom, if you feel better calling the police and you want to call the police, go ahead." She says no, she doesn't want to call the police. She says a few more things to W. By now, all three boys are awake. MIL tends to the boys, W offers more spew about how I've never done anything for our children and leaves.

I shower as quickly as a I can while W is consoling the boys. She comes into the bathroom while I'm drying off and says "You know, my friends all tried to convince me that you're a f%$king moron, and I defended you, but now I see their point. You are a f$#king moron." She leaves the bathroom. I get out and start getting S8 ready for school. She's packing her purse for the day, she's tearing up a bit. We meet again in the living room. She starts again "I really hate you. I hate you, and you don't love me. You don't love me at all. Your idea of this relationship working is to have total control over me. You want me to cower to you over everything." I ask her not to tell me what's in my heart or my head. She says I only want to stay married for the kids and to avoid the headache of a D. I remain calm and point out that a D will be no picnic for her either. She leaves.

Before taking S8 to school, I go downstairs to apologize to MIL. I start crying. I tell her I love her daughter and I respect her daughter and I would never hurt her or my children. MIL starts tearing up a little, but avoids eye contact. I reach out with open palms and she receives them to hold hands. She says "You know my English is not so good..." and proceeds to advise me that W and I don't argue in front of the kids. I agree. I tell her as quickly as I can that W is not happy with her marriage, is not happy with the work of motherhood, and is not happy with being 39. She wants everything to be different, and I'm trying to let her do what she wants to do, but I can't have her leaving the kids alone. MIL is struggling for words, but I sense she's already noticed the change in W's behavior this year. S8 interrupts us and I take him to school.

I text W an apology when I get to the office. I'm sorry for raising my voice. I don't like arguing with her. I don't like arguing in front of the kids. I still love her. I love her very much.

[srt]

Hi brubeck, it hurts me to read about your sitch. I don't have much advice for you other than to continue to take the high ground and look out for your kids. Best wishes

[Kyh]

My w did the same with our accounts. She spent out of the joint account (my income) and saved her money in hers so she could leave. Maybe she was using it so I couldn't see what she was spending too, idk. She also maxed out our credit card.

Try to stay calm for yours of and kids. It sounds like she is getting you riled up so she can justify herself. Try not to play into it. In my early days w pulled strings and I danced while she set me up to fail. We never argued until her MLC, then she had to justify herself somehow until I learned not to partake in her craziness, or at least as little as possible. Try to be calm and let her be crazy on her own. I know it's hard.

It is completely unacceptable to leave kids at home like that and I know how the MLC friends are just as crazy as them. What kind of other adult thinks it's okay too? A MLC friend. Next time try to change your approach when you confront her. Instead of saying "never abandon our kids like that", maybe try something like "I was concerned for our kids when you left, it is not acceptable to leave them alone at that age anything could happen, you could easily be reported and checked out by CPS" or something similar. You don't want her to feel attacked. Don't partake if she argues. Dont argue in front of your kids.

Take care of yourself and kids, let your w act crazy on her own don't partake in it.

[ericmsant2]

Brubeck

Did a bit of snooping (I know, I know...)

No you don’t know – otherwise you would not do it.

Think about this for a sec…..

You joined some online group and are securing advice from a bunch of strangers. The strangers tell you NOT to snoop. You do it anyway.

Do you think that maybe YOUR W feels that you said you are/were going to change – yet she feels you will do it again.

Your actions do not match your words Brubeck. And do not think for a moment that YOUR W does not see it. H@ll I do not know you that well and I see it.

I interrupted her only to point out the faulty math in her child support proposal.

And what was the real purpose of interrupting her? Cause from where I sit I would bet that what you really tried to do was plant some fear in her arse that she is not going to be able to afford the life she has now. Do you really want to try and scare her into staying?

I had no choice but to take her debit card from her purse last night...Immediately into the paper shredder. I felt bad for going into her purse, but she has no qualms about going into my wallet without my knowledge to take my bus card to use on mornings when she can't find hers.

What you are doing right now is NOT DBing. It is protecting your arse. I understand why. Just remember these action later down the road.

She just keeps screaming over and over "They were fine!" I scream over and over "Don't leave our kids unattended."

Ummm…how’d that screaming over and over work for ya? Did that approach you take move you closer to YOUR goals?

She starts again "I really hate you. I hate you, and you don't love me. You don't love me at all. Your idea of this relationship working is to have total control over me. You want me to cower to you over everything." I ask her not to tell me what's in my heart or my head. She says I only want to stay married for the kids and to avoid the headache of a D. I remain calm and point out that a D will be no picnic for her either. She leaves.

Dude – do you ever really employ the STFU approach?

Before taking S8 to school, I go downstairs to apologize to MIL. I start crying. I tell her I love her daughter and I respect her daughter and I would never hurt her or my children. MIL starts tearing up a little, but avoids eye contact. I reach out with open palms and she receives them to hold hands. She says "You know my English is not so good..." and proceeds to advise me that W and I don't argue in front of the kids. I agree. I tell her as quickly as I can that W is not happy with her marriage, is not happy with the work of motherhood, and is not happy with being 39. She wants everything to be different, and I'm trying to let her do what she wants to do, but I can't have her leaving the kids alone. MIL is struggling for words, but I sense she's already noticed the change in W's behavior this year.

As I read this I wondered…..are you trying to use MIL to help convince your W that a D is bad. If so, that is manipulative. YOUR ACTIONS are the best tool you have….and honestly, you are doing a really chitty job of DBing.


Your emotion get the best of YOU and YOUR W sees it.

Your actions TOWARDS YOUR W in front of YOUR kids is not helping.


YOUR pride (not to be confused with suggesting that you become a doormat) is NOT helping.


DB101 – Do what works.


You are NOT doing what works.


Do you think you have really changed?

Do you think your actions are someone that she would want to come back to?

I text W an apology when I get to the office.

Maybe if you would learn to STFU you would not need to apologize.


Bru, I am Puerto Rican myself and I get the whole latin culture thing, which IMO, plays a little bit of a role in your sitch.

Your W wants more control and more freedom. You appear to be keeping hold of it in a manner that you are used to. DB is about changing habits.


Case in point – rather than apologize and remind her what she does not want to hear right now (i.e. I still love you)….Maybe you need to come up with a more consistent schedule. For example, maybe a convo with your W that goes like this…….



Hi W, I was thinking that maybe to avoid the disagreement we had the other day, that we should probably come up with a more consistent plan for the kids. I understand that YOU need time for yourself as do I. To that end, I wanted to see if you have any ideas. I have some myself.


Then….you sit back and listen. YOU do not agree to anything you LISTEN. You reflect back (read up on Reflective Listening) to her what she said so she understands that you are really listening to her.

Doing what you are currently doing is NOT helping your cause.


Finally, some of the best advice I received…….


A servant cannot serve two masters.


You either focus on protecting your arse or

You give everything you have to try and db this.


You cannot serve both. That is not to say that you do not afford yourself some protection. I guess said another way…..

Where is YOUR heart really at.


Either way – I will support you so I do not need an answer. The answer is really for YOURSELF.

[Brubeck]

I know not to believe anything, but when she presents herself one way to me and another way to her friends, I get confused.

W received her first paycheck last week and continued to draw from our joint checking account for various things. She paid her mother $375 for the first 3 weeks of babysitting from our joint checking without saying a word to me or asking me beforehand to agree to anything (when discussing going back to work, she itemized that part of her check would go to child care). One week ago, I wrote a polite text asking her please to bring home $375 to re-cover the cost. She bragged to OM that night that she wasn't going to bother doing so. I texted her once again the following day, also ignored.

I waited a week. This morning, I placed her Target charge card on the dresser, attached to a printout of our payment history. I texted her indicating that I paid the August monthly bill of $277 in full, but I would not be paying the September bill of $280. I was leaving that up to her to pay in lieu of the $375 she took without communicating to me about it first.

She called me at the office this morning and went immediately into martyr mode - as always, putting words into my mouth to create meaning behind things I do that she doesn't like. She assumed I'm going to make her pay "half" of the bills, when she makes a 1/3 of what I make. I told her she would only have to pay for her own immediate needs (bus card, cell phone, clothes & entertainment). The only actual monthly bill I was sticking her with was the internet/landline bill of $62 because it was the only bill delivered to our address in her name.

She's already shared her pay rate & number of hours. Deducting taxes, internet/landline, childcare, cell phone and bus card - she is left with monthly spending money somewhere in the vicinity of $700. I don't know if she's done the math on this, she's only received one check yet.

She literally said "I want to know what's going on in your head." She was asking me where is the proof that I love her. Where are my actions that indicate I still love her? I told her the best I can do these days is to continue paying all the bills and giving her all the space she needs since she is so angry with me and doesn't want to speak to me at all.

I told that I cleared out the savings account and that I stopped putting money into the joint checking account, that I set up my own private checking account. I could hear her breaking into tears saying "how could you do that? That's my money, too!"

I kept my cool. I explained that our savings account is smaller by 1/3 and the checking account is 3/4's gone. I calmly explained that I have to protect the family's financial situation. I have to make sure all the bills are paid and everyone has health insurance. I cannot do that when she continues her reckless spending on clothes, restaurants, taxis, video games and "nights out". She did not pursue the crying route. She admitted to "getting crazy" over the spring and summer and "running away from my problems" by making some bad choices.

I know I have to work on how I say these things. I can keep emotion out of my voice, but I use a lot of accusatory language. I tried to emphasize the "I / me / my" part - I have to fulfill my responsibilities to my family and to my home. I try to avoid finger pointing, but she won't let sh!t drop.

Today's holiday allowed me some snooping and my W says she is getting ready to file for a S. Her mother does not want to babysit our sons any further. W wants to put the kids in day care, but cannot qualify for child care assistance unless she is separated. Her mother refused to loan her any money for a lawyer, her mother does not want us to separate.

In the same breath, she's talked of quitting her job that she's only held for a month. I don't know what that's about. The creases forming under under her eyes were there before she got the job and have only gotten deeper. After 8 years on her own schedule, she's gotta get up at 6 AM now. She's passed out at 9 pm only to wake an hour later and stay up past midnight tapping away on her phone.

W has applied for a credit card to pay for a lawyer. She's said she's been afraid to leave me but realizes she has to "walk through hell and fire to get to the other side". I don't know whether that's genuine or if she's quoting movie dialogue once again.

By moving my paycheck (and remaining savings) away from her, she's telling people I am trying to control her through money. I don't get it. She has a job now and most of her own paycheck is nothing but spending cash. I moved the money so I don't see more of it disappear. She's spent $6000 in 8 months. She has upwards of $700 a month in spending cash.

She accused me during our Friday morning argument of trying to be her father and expecting her to cower to me in every way. I know for myself that this is not true. One of the reasons she married me is because I always deferred to her wishes. She's picked our furniture, vacation spots, etc.

I am genuinely torn here. I'm not planning to get down on my knees and proclaim my undying devotion, but I don't know if staying dark/dim is working - even though she continues to act two-faced with me. She's the beleaguered martyr in my presence and the no-bullsh!t, me-first woman taking charge of her life in the presence of others.

I don't know if I really need to put a good foot forward. She still sounds confused, but she seems intent on trying to figure out how to file.