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roist #2709152 10/09/16 11:41 AM
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It does sound very difficult. I can sense your frustration and grief.

It's hard to know what advice to give though, because I still don't have a clear sense of the issue, or of what your typical interactions are like.

Your sig mentions an R chat in Feb. What did you learn from that? Is your wife suffering from a general depression, or does she seem fine except for the R?


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Rose888 #2709159 10/09/16 12:47 PM
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Hi roist, I have read your threads before and think you are very brave in standing for what you believe in.
I understand your pain when you are around her an do not feel any reciprocated love.
I wonder have you ever looked at counselling or therapy for W? It's not really a suggestion just more a question.
I hope you both manage to do something nice for your anniversary.


M 10, T 18
M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6
EA: Oct 12
ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: Aug 15
Separated: Sep 15
Miss you: Jun 16
Aug 16: Dating (!)
Oct 16: Selfishness returns...
currently: disgusted
srt #2709177 10/09/16 01:58 PM
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I haven't read your other threads, so maybe I am missing something and my following assessment is totally off the mark, but the sense I get from this thread is not so much that your wife is about to bolt or BD you, but that you are very insecure and worry that she will. And I get the impression you are timid or holding back from her out of fear that will happen. Are you creating a self-fulfilling prophesy? If there is something missing from the marriage, try putting it back in the marriage. She might surprise you.

2Lady #2709217 10/10/16 01:01 AM
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2lady,

Thank you for dropping by and giving me your opinion. I can understand your assessment and there could be some truth in it.

I am not very sure of myself and what to do and how. I am working on this with some success but not there yet. I have grown a lot and will achieve a fuller happier life. At the moment I am just making the best if it within my situation.
I can do better and I am figuring out how.

Tbh, I fear more about how long things will continue as is than.her leaving. Her parents live together but very much apart. Mine were not a super example either, but it was until death. I don't want to live an unhappy M and definitely don't like being with someone who doesn't want to be there (mindreading of course!!).


We both are unhappy in this M. We both want a better life. We both love our kids and what is best for them. For me the solution is to build a happy R together. For her idk. Reading my positives etc it should be easy to rebuild our connection and advance BUT it isn't. Maybe I am not capable of doing what it'll take but I am doing what I can. Maybe regardless what I do she is unreceptive to connecting fully with me. Maybe both.

I am aware of self fulfilling prophesies and am mindful of that. That is why I concentrate on the positives,
practice gratitude (especially about R) and keep working on me. I am here to see how I can tweak our: interactions and my behaviours to be sure I am not doing that.

I have spent a lot of time looking into cbt and find it helpful.
It has helped me change some thoughts beliefs and behaviours.Ann has tuned me into to noticing dynamics and irrational thinking that are not serving me.

If you have the time I would appreciate your feedback on my full story. If not just on this thread.

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
srt #2709218 10/10/16 01:28 AM
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Hello srt,

Thank you for your kind words.

For me the choice to stand was easy. Living it not so much. I am for the most part holding up well. I am only opening up here now to give as full a picture as I can so others can understand my situation better and offer specific guidance.

No my W has never had IC or any other kind of professional help. That will do no good unless she wants it. So for my part I have never suggested it.

I was depressed in the past and during that time I wanted W to save me. She didn't!.
Now I know it was not her place to do so. I want to help my W but I cannot drive that. I continue to have empathy, validate and support where I can.

When I was depressed I saw the degrading state of our M but could do nothing. Plus tbh I was numb.I didn't know what to do and not motivated to try alone. Imo W was also depressed back then too. But I sought help for my depression and started to work on M. I understand how she feels and it is awful. That helps me take it on the chin, but does not make it more enjoyable.


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
Rose888 #2709223 10/10/16 03:16 AM
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Thank you Rose.

Yes my situation is a hard one to get a grasp of and I have not really journalled our interactions. I will briefly try to outline them.now and maybe journal more about them going forward.

Tbh our interactions are mostly those of housemates that don't get along but still make the most of it. There are many silences and communication can be poor. frown Neither of us avoid the other. I tend to go do something else instead of
Staying in the same room.in silence or awkwardness. I do this to give her time and space but also I prefer doing stuff.

With kids my W tends to take over. I am slowly changing that but it is one of my.major projects that I am working on. My W works school hours so she is with our sons most of the time. She is good with them but they are a hatndful at times and she cracks. But due to her closeness and availability for boys, she tends to take over solving disputes etc. Sometimes I feel undermined and I let her know. This is one of my pet hates and triggers. I am.progressing in this domain but enough to my liking. I'll surely talk about parenting more as it is an important part of me.

It is sure that my W does not avoid me. She asks help for little things that she could. Haha. have done alone. When I get busy elsewhere she often comes to see me, even if at times it's to point out a better way of doing it. Haha. Got a lesson on digging a whole recently and filling it yesterday. wink I truly would be lost without her. Joking aside she does often come to where I am.

Same for our couch time. Before I hated this as it was filled with silence and resentment. Now I no longer harbor resentment and for the mostpart it is a shared moment of comfortable silence with better communication.But if W is closed to me and/or I have no interest in what is on, I won't sit there just to spend time alone together. Quality beats quantity. Anyway often when I express I don't want to watch the end of something, she suggests watching a series on DVD or other. Guess I am not so bad as TV buddy. grin

Every evening when I come home I offer to help with dinner.More often than not it is not wanted. If conversation is not easy, I go about my b siness. If talky we chat for a while.This is sporadic. My strategy is to capatilise on moments where communication is good and back off when it isn't. Same for interactions. However I do not let her moods determine my availability always. If I have something that needs doing, I will do it.

I have not the time to outline more now. Maybe I over highlight the positive but that is what I focus on. Overall interactions are poor, but there are positives. At times she is very chatty and open. Full of eye contact and smiles. Sometimes she is so intense with eye contact that I get uncomfortable. Really intense unbroken eye contact.I milk up these occasions, appreciate them but know now I cannot build on them. I can improve our interactions during such openness.

I got to go.

I outlined our full conversation back in February so that I would have a record of it, if anyone wants to dig back that far. She admitted being disconnected to me and when asked didn't know if she wanted to reconnect. Everything was talked about as a third person.The third person being our R. It was like that and that was it. But no honey that is not it. It is us that decide how R is, not it. It was a calm talk and I said stuff I wanted to say, including stuff I appreciated in the past. This was about having said it rather than influencing the R. It was good to chat. It released built up tension.

My W is unhappy in general. This helps me stay compassionate. Back in February I told her that I would prefer to see her happy with someone else than unhappy with me. I do want her to be happy. I prefer that to be here with me and believe it can be so. Unfortunately I don't think she sees this at the moment and maybe never will.I understand her unhappiness and her depression.

I think she has been in crisis about four years. I was depressed for the first two. I wanted to stand for at least the same amount of time. That is done now. But I am not done. I won't set any time limits but eventually will.


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,654
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Originally Posted By: ForeverYoung
Originally Posted By: roist

It may be coincidence but there appears to be slightly better interactions in the last few days. Not world changing but noticeable.More conversation more openness and slightly closer position on the couch.


It's weird, but sometimes even when our spouses aren't "into" us, they really don't want to lose us any more than we want to lose them. I think this is especially true in a MLC situation when there is no OP. Keep this in mind as you move forward. wink

That, and the power of positive thinking will take you a long way.


Thanks FY. Sometimes I am tempted to test that theory. wink


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2709254 10/10/16 07:41 AM
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Thank you for stopping by my thread earlier roist. I haven't cough up with your sitch yet, but the last post seems full of kindness and empathy, you should be proud of yourself


"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"

“There is freedom waiting for you,
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask "What if I fall?"
Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?”

-Erin Hanson





roist #2709265 10/10/16 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted By: roist
Back in February I told her that I would prefer to see her happy with someone else than unhappy with me.


It doesn't work like that. We all have to figure out how to be happy on our own, not counting on or waiting for someone else to make us happy. But I think you already know this.

Put another way, how long do you suppose your wife would be happy with some new schmuck?


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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But I do understand very well your frustration over the poor connection and sometimes tension between W and you. Been there, done that! And at two years, you're at about the worst time, when lots of folks grow tired and give up.

I believe you can save and remake your M if you choose to.


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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