Thanks & praises to MrBond and CaliGuy for their 2 cents...
Originally Posted By: MrBond
And despite her self destructive nature, you should try to reign in your anger. Calling the mother of your kids a slut is going to come out when you're with them. Don't put them in between you two.
I agree that I shouldn't put them in between us, and I don't believe I am. She is using them - she has gone so dark that she doesn't communicate about school activities. When something happens regarding school activities that requires my assistance, I ask why am I being asked to participate in this at the last minute only to provide relief or support that nobody else can? She just gets frustrated and says "well you should have asked me about this." That's right, ask about something I didn't know was occurring in the first place. Makes sense.
My derogatory comment about her is a reflection of her as a W, not a mother. It's an apt description for many and an honest expression of my feelings at this time: I think my W is a slut. This is why I am enraged and heartbroken at the same time. She wakes up one day and decides it would be more fulfilling to be a slut than be my wife. I'm not at the 'shrugging my shoulders' point of it yet.
Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
you do probably need a good dose of Boundaries. You can not control her, but you need to place some boundaries in to protect yourself. Her using you till she is set to jump into the other tree would not work for me TBH ... you may want to give this some thought. ... just my 2 cents.
I believe so, but I don't know how to create that. She doesn't know I know... 1) about the A 2) Her plans to become financially independent and then tell me to move out. This is all I've heard her tell friends while snooping. So I guess I have to create boundaries by backing off. Or is there something else I need to do? She's gone dark, she only contacts me to coordinate when I'll be home so she can leave. Maybe too much of this is just going on in my head.
M: 49, W: 45 T: 22 M: 15 S14, S11, S9 BD: Jan '16 W files: Oct '16 D final: June '18
Ok ... so just because its free I will give you some advice.
Snooping .... stop doing that, you have ample time and its driving you crazy and you start to get yourself all spun up and when that happens you start digging/snooping and looking right? Yup ... I have the killer T-Shirt from that tour. Here is the thing, what are you looking to find that you have not already imagined is happening? Who is it hurting more .... you. find a hobby and realize she will do what she will, its time you start doing something other than worry about what/where/who she is doing because at the moment she will continue to do those things regardless while you stress yourself silly about it ..... this is where GAL/PMA and all that comes with it comes into play. All the snooping in the world is not going to help your sitch, so why waste that energy there?
Reporting on GALing is boring but I'm criticized when I don't do it, so here goes: I've tried making pit stops at a bar I pass on my bicycle route home from work. I only did it twice and it was just to take a breather to be myself in between being the boss and being Dad. 2 pints of beer in 45 minutes. Being in a different environment is nice, but I haven't found a neighborhood bar for me, and pub regulars are kind of depressing for me. I started working harder at my appearance and I've enjoyed it more than I thought I would. I bought a diving watch I really like and I bought a skull ring to replace my wedding band.
I left last night to eat dinner alone. I hated leaving my sons, and they cried when I left, but I didn't want to cook. I went to a bar & grill that has open mics on Sunday nights. I sing around the house constantly, but I want to try singing in public. It's a big fear I want to overcome. I'm perfectly comfortable performing onstage with my guitar, but singing is so personal.
W did her first marathon Saturday morning. It was a 5K at the suggestion of MLC Friend #2. When she returned home from the race, I prompted the boys to clap when she entered the room. We all applauded and I shouted "Yay Mom! Congratulations!" She said it took less than an hour and she walked half of it, but she seemed glad she did it. She spent more time having breakfast afterwards.
I spoke with JEC Friday evening. She senses I am still trying to blame myself for the MLC because it creates a responsibility for me to fix it and somehow take control. She also said at the same time I am trying to convince myself that W is not really in MLC because I am in search of finding a reasonable explanation in a situation that has none. It's all crazy to begin with. I am refusing to acknowledge the craziness, because I have no control over it.
This is the self work that I struggle with. I am wound up because I feel she controls my future in the following way; I will have my identity altered against my will. I will become a part time father. My quality of life will be diminished because child support will keep me broke for many years to come. I feel like a D is just an inevitability, and because of her adultery, I want a D myself half the time.
Everybody assures me that I'm going to be okay, everybody says just to keep going strong for the boys, but I don't feel okay. Everything feels uncertain and while I don't expect certainty in everything I am certain that being a part time dad who will spend the next decade robbing Peter to pay Paul is going to taste like a never ending bucket of yuck. There was a time when I was just focusing on assuring myself that I wasn't to blame for all this, now I'm looking at my family and and thinking it doesn't matter if it's her fault, it's unpleasant for my sons and I.
My anxiety is returning - that problem of "living in the future". I try to prepare myself for the worst by imagining various difficult scenarios. I suppose this is part of my control problem, I am creating things to fix by telling myself how I would navigate through them even though they haven't happened yet. I guess I am not letting go, when I don't even know what the hell it is I am holding on to. Why am I always trying to scare myself?
Without any choice, I've had to snoop less, and it has reduced the stress a bit. Since going back to work, I am not able to listen to her daytime conversations. What little I am still able to see or hear makes me very angry or very sad, because it's just more lies or exaggerations about my behavior.
M: 49, W: 45 T: 22 M: 15 S14, S11, S9 BD: Jan '16 W files: Oct '16 D final: June '18
Well done for GALling, I bet you felt better after your 45 minute pit stop. I recently bought my first ever bottle of red wine (one that was purchased just for me that is) and enjoy the occasional glass here and there. The first day H gave me his "brutal truth" lecture I drunk two glasses just to get through the phone conversation with my MIL, but obviously since then I didn't drink again, hangovers when you have kids are a different kind of hell, one that I cannot handle!
I can only say one thing about anxiety that proves how useles it is. I spent most of my adult life anxious about all those possible catastrophes that could happen, worrying about this and that, and stressing over everything. My therapist thought that my depression was a result of my high levels of anxiety, that's how bad I was. Did I ever think H would do this to me? Did all those days of worry prepare me of help me in any way? No. I'm still struggling with it, but trying to not let it take over my life.
Take care
"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"
“There is freedom waiting for you, On the breezes of the sky, And you ask "What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, What if you fly?”
Evidence of her MLC have started to spread within W's family, appearing as "marriage problems". This morning I received an unexpected call from W's closest cousin E.M. He lives 2 blocks up from us. We meet every morning to take our eldest sons to school together. We've always gotten along great. I've never said anything to anyone in W's family about her MLC or any "marriage problems". I still haven't told my mother.
Do you remember the scene in 'Goodfellas' where Pauly goes to see Henry over at his OW's house and gives him the you're not gonna get a divorce speech? It was kind of like that.
E.M. said months ago my W had spoken briefly about troubles at home and in a vague manner. He didn't know what was going on other than receiving a general vibe of tension. I have a solid reputation with W's family, it's going to be some work for her to convince them that I am Satan himself, so she hasn't bothered with telling them anything. According to E.M. what she told him sounds to me like her safe narrative used elsewhere; we've been having a tough time lately but she wants to work things out. Of course, with her 3 MLC Friends and the OM, I am the "f#king idiot/moron/a$$hole" or "evil bastard" that she can't wait to kick out of the house once she's financially independent.
He gave me the "start dating her again" speech. I tried to explain her sitch without MLC jargon... She's evaluated her life and is unhappy with most of it. She wants to have fun and party. Whatever she does with her marriage - stay or go - is not on her mind right now. She doesn't see herself as a wife. She loves our children and she is committed to keeping the house (so her mother has a place to live in her senior years), but she wants a life opposite of the one she has. She's not interested in the responsibilities of marriage, parenting or owning a home. She wants to be 18 again.
E.M. persisted with the "start dating again" and "work it out" strategy. I tried to explain what her rationale is and there's no one conversation with anyone that's going to 'snap her out of it'. She's actually stuck in a sickness that doesn't go away overnight. He says that she might have "something like a midlife crisis." I said that's exactly what's going on. This is a guy who spent 5 years in prison. For him, his marriage and his 4 kids are all a new lease on life. He said she's got to move on and grow up. I had no reply for that one.
He persisted, I caved in. I told him to brace himself for a BD, then I told him the problem was so bad for her that she was having an A. He only paused for a moment about it, but I could tell he was very surprised to hear it. The last thing anyone would suspect my W of getting into is an A. I left out the other essentials; burning through $6000 in 8 months, rewriting the history of the entire MR, and MASSIVE amounts of lying to everyone. He agreed not to mention our conversation to anyone, and that he would try to find a way to talk to her, but I warned him not to and that if she sensed he spoke with me that it will push her further towards a D.
I was doing well this week before getting this call. I realized the silliness of her plan to turn her life into Sex and the City... with Three Kids... on Minimum Wage. I was telling myself if worse comes to pass and I wind up a weekend father I will have an easier time adjusting to that than whatever "Fabulous at Forty Single Mom" movie she has playing in her head. I had resigned myself to dealing with a D, I realized I can live through that, that I underestimate my ability to adapt. I wasn't thinking about her or the R, I was thinking about other things I was planning. Mentioning the A to W's cousin brought all those awful feelings back. I feel now like I should have kept my mouth shut, but E.M. came to me out of the blue and with great empathy.
M: 49, W: 45 T: 22 M: 15 S14, S11, S9 BD: Jan '16 W files: Oct '16 D final: June '18
Sometimes that stuff is pulled out of us by people who have good intentions (Fixers) and think in some way they can help ... which was why this board was so vital for me during that time as only the people here could relate when I would say my W went monster and I luckily wore the spew jacket.
I was point blank asked by BIL1 if she was having an A, I looked him dead in the eye and told him, she is your sister, feel free to ask her any question you would like. He knew but was not me who said anything ..... the SIL spilled the beans after what I would call a Twin MLC Monster Meltdown of epic proportions.
My advice ... she is in crisis, not your circus not your monkey and you really don't want to be the one letting the cat out the bag, take the high road and be above that stuff, friends and family will think what they will, sift through the lies or believe them its really dependent on the individual, I rose above it ... and I am thankful I did, back in the heat of it I wanted the A exposed to all just to shame her, that was out of hurt and fear, I decided I wanted to be stronger than that and went all Clint Eastwood on it.
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
(ericmsant2 - what I learned is that while I am still having trouble internalizing all this, you can always shut up. It was just so validating to have someone from her side approach me with concern about her and/or us. I was wishing for this to happen.)
Elsewhere... Monster came to spew Friday night. I was putting away laundry in the MBR when she came in and bluntly asked "So have you thought about our separation?" I said I hadn't. "Well, I want a separation." She sat on the bed, looking at the wall. I said that's OK. "I want child support, that's 32 percent." I asked "32 percent of what?" "Of what you have, we have to make arrangements so we can live like room mates." I told her we were already living that way. "We have to make it legal."
I asked if she meant that she's expecting to receive 32% on top of what I already pay for (which is everything) damn near all of my paycheck. She said yes. Um, ok...I am supposed to fork over 32% on top of the 80% - 90% that goes towards covering the family bills.
I continue to try and DB - to shut up and validate. There is still part of my brain that won't accept this when we get into budget disputes. Money is math and I can't help but speak up when she starts talking like Radiohead lyrics (2+2=5). I tried pointing out that this doesn't make any sense. She immediately starts screaming "I don't f&*king care! God, I wanna punch you in the god damn face!" I leave the room.
She follows me into the darkened living room. "It's over! We're done." I keep my cool. She stands in the front of me wiggling three fingers a hair away from my eyes. "I've talked to 3 lawyers! Three! Do you know what they're telling me to do! They're telling me to bleed you dry! They're telling me to take everything!" I tell her to do what she feels is best, but I am not agreeing to some vague percentage of my income when I still live there and am already paying for everything. She has not received her first paycheck nor has she indicated what she's going to be paying for.
She switches topics yet again and tells me once more that the house is only 25% mine because her name is on the mortgage and the deed (not true, I have both) - all the while jabbing her index finger so she's almost touching my face. She wants me to say "get your finger out of my face", she wants me to escalate everything. I stay still and silent and speak up only when her logic fails. I tell her that I am paying the mortgage and that means more than any title. If she can't pay the mortgage, what is she going to say to the mortgage company? "My name's on the title." They don't care who's name is on the title - the bills must be paid.
I point out at her pay rate and with a weekly deduction of $125 to her mother for child care, she's still has an expendable income of $800 - $1000 per month, depending on taxes. She was visibly annoyed when I shared that I made this calculation for myself, and switched the topic.
Following me back to the MBR, I'm laying in bed with S4 and S3. She regurgitates more of what I've heard before - "my friends can't stand you, and neither can my family, when I told them this year how much I hate you, they all agreed..." "you don't treat me like an equal, you treat me like a teenager..." More of the same. I don't know why she wanted to pick a fight that night, but she pressed on "I'm trying to do this nicely, so we don't get lawyers involved. I don't want this to be a big mess." She's rambling, switching from accusation to threat and back again. "You're an excellent father, I don't want you to hate me forever. Everyone says you're gonna hate me forever." "You know, the courts are gonna give me the kids!" She asks if I have consulted any lawyers "What do you care?" I reply.
She asks why do I want to keep going on. I say "because we're worth it. All of us. You, me, the kids. When it's great, it's the best. You don't throw in the towel at the first roadblock." She looks away and mutters "Uh, well I need time alone." Well sure, I can see that. I notice her time alone doesn't involve asking me to move out, because she'd lose her f$%king mind watching 3 boys by herself when she just wants to disappear into her phone.
"I'm trying to do this with doing as little damage as possible. But, I've made up my mind...between doing this for the kids and me, I choose me." Yes, I kid you not - she actually said that out loud to me.
I don't know what motivated her demand. I just emptied our savings account that day. I don't know if she's noticed. I moved our savings out of our joint account. It's been moved to a single account at a different bank. I built up that savings account by myself storing tax refunds over several years. She's spent 1/3 of our savings in the past 8 months.
I didn't even recapitulate the conversation very well here. It was kernels of truth here & there buried in MLC fog. I can't remember all of it, other than she couldn't account for what our monthly budget is and just replied with screaming "I don't care!" over and over.
Saturday she took S8 and S4 to visit MLC Friend #1 for most of the day. She actually said goodbye to me when she left (and in a pleasant tone of voice). It was cold & rainy. S3 and I took a 3 hour nap, snuggling together. I had the window cracked enough to hear the rain, it was so relaxing. Afterwards, I did some yard work with S3 happily running around. W came home with S8 and S4 around 9:30 PM. S8 was disappointed in the evening, being stuck in some kid's bedroom playing video games he didn't like. I had to console him a bit.
Last night I'm settling in for bed with S4 and S3. S4 and I are having some 'whisper talk' which I always do at bedtime to quiet him down. S4 suddenly asks me "Do you hate Mom?" I was so thrown off I asked him to repeat the question, but I heard right. "No, I love Mommy!" S4 countered with "I hate Mom." I knew right away these were not his own words. I asked where he heard that - "from S8. S8 hates Mom." I asked why and he said "because Mom is always yelling at us and telling us to clean up."
I assured S4 that S8 doesn't hate Mommy, that he was just mad and it's okay to be mad because everyone gets mad. I re-iterated that S8 loves Mommy and so does S3 and so do I and that Mommy loves all of us. S4 smiled, gave me the thumbs up and we went on to talk about something else.
Since mid-July, this has grown progressively true. W does have great moments of affection with our sons (usually when she arrives home or is leaving), but by and large her cell phone remains her constant focus and she engages the boys most when she yells at them to clean up - quite ferociously. She tries to earn favor by always buying them a lot of sweets, but that can only go so far.
I can talk about W with great enthusiasm & encouragement towards our sons, but they are sensing for themselves her detachment and they gravitate towards me more and more. I can't do anything about that but be the best dad I can be.
I loaded up all my Mary J. Blige albums on the mp3. Damn, I forgot about her!
M: 49, W: 45 T: 22 M: 15 S14, S11, S9 BD: Jan '16 W files: Oct '16 D final: June '18
Reading all that .... man ... yup ... I could have written much of that a couple years ago. I think you handled it well not taking the bait and even thought you did not verbalize it I think you see it for what it is .. Baiting. She needs to demonize you in her mind, you are the sole reason she is not happy and, well everyone hates you... her family told her not to marry you, blah blah blah anything to tarnish your image and you did well. Took me a bit not to take bait in these situations then I discovered the STFU smoothie and I would just look at her in silence as she monstered and more information came out, this would give me a little idea of the things she was telling herself to get all worked up.
The kids will need you more now than ever, even young they know something isn't right with mom so you will have to be the rock for some time. They will look to you for stability because a woman who is yelling at them to clean up one minute then giving them a candy bar the next is confusing .... she will later on most likely do much to repair the damage she is causing to the relationship between her and the kids but this will take time. My W is still trying but often reverts back to this very thing with my son and we are 3 years past BD .... though I think she is better with him now than back in the high conflict years so it does get better.
One thing I would say .. you did well moving the money. They have this fairy tale image going on on how wonderful life will be once they get what they want. 32% over what you are already shelling out ... sounds like a killer deal. When she does start to monster about this its not always back to drink a bit of the STFU smoothie so you know what she THINKS will happen and then go ahead and calmly fire the truth darts laced with what ACTUALLY will happen. Life after separation/Divorce is not what is realistically going to happen and its not a bad thing to educate them on this sometimes. Other times may be best for you to continue the way you have handled this and let her figure it out the hard way (This is what I did ... and continue to do)
Hats off in an extreme situation. The land of fairies and endless supplies of money must be such a happy place to live. As usual, when the mean separation, they want you to do the moving out, so that they don't have to be inconvenienced.
Sadly, I have also had variations of this spew, more so at the start. Sadly, I ended up not recognising who the woman I married actually was.
M 45 W 52 SD22 S9 D8 BD 6 April 2015 Not living together 4 Dec 2015
