I don't know how much money is at stake... but something to consider, is to just let it go. Don't focus on it. Don't act upon your suspicion that your W will somehow screw you financially. Just live/act as the strong and reliable husband that you want to be. How much is saving your marriage worth to you, financially?
Not saying you must do it this way -- just consider the opposite of what you're doing before doing it. After all, it's only money.
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
She has to go sign the lease today or tomorrow as she finally got an agreement for a 6 month lease at an apartment. So, I suppose we will HAVE to talk about the separation of finances today.
I'm just going to add on my perspective about this along with some advice I got from my L plus advice from others who have gone down the path into divorce.
What I did was to leave everything completely(ish) as it was. W has full access to our joint finances. She has though blocked my access to the personal bank account that she always had for "mad money" where she had accumulated a couple of thousand before exiting. I did put alarms on the bank accounts and credit cards so I get a message within minutes of any transactions so that if she starts doing something stupid I can react. The day she walked out the door she started doing her own completely separate banking and only touched our joint finances to put in a few dollars to help with the mortgage. For me, I've opened a separate bank account which I believe has $20 in it to cover the fees. W is fully aware of this as she has access to our book-keeping software where this is all recorded. She can also see every penny I spend because I record it. In a note I wrote her when she left I told her that I would "be prudent with family resources" and that I expected her to be the same. I've been lucky (so far) - lots of people have been burned too. As ForGump suggests, how much risk are you willing to accept in order to not rock the boat.
From my L and others I have been advised to make no changes to banking or financial instruments that could look like I was pulling marital assets away from W. A friend who emptied his bank account and hid the money pre-D suffered quite badly from that in the judgement. If we ever go down this path W will not look good for some of the actions she's taken. I've chosen to not take notice of them.
It's a tricky balance between protecting yourself and not causing additional conflict. As they advertisements say - your milage may vary.
Good luck.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
We aren't talking a couple thousand dollars...we are talking well into the mid 6 figures....as of right now she is ok walking away from the majority of that and taking only half of savings and checking which is not too bad...I'm not at all concerned with that. Her taking half of the retirement accounts would easily set me back 7-10 years from retirement, which is what I've worked so hard our entire relationship to give us.
I am not talking about going and withdrawing money all willy nilly. I am stating that we should do it in a legal way by seeing the attorney to draw up the division of assets paperwork to file with the state. Then we are both protected financially from each other, and let's face it neither of us trusts each other so this only seems logical to me. Then if we come back together, this can easily be dissolved and our finances restored with each other.
That is a lot of money at stake. But it's not just about the amount at stake -- what might she do during this time of flux ... that is irreparable? She can't just "walk away" with your retirement during this time of separation.
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
Also, Thanks Coconut, ForGump, and AndrewP for your view points!
@ForGump: It's not about what she might do with it. It's about whether or not this remains amicable. At this point it is amicable, but I've seen far too many cases where it goes downhill rather quickly. So, with things amicable I have the best opportunity to keep my retirement on track...if I wait, there is no guarantee that will be the case in the (possibly very near) future. It's about protecting myself and my future IN CASE this does go to divorce.
I don't know enough about the legal separation of assets in divorce to know if it makes sense to separate funds now or later. The separation of funds started out being recommended just so you weren't financing her A, but with that kind of money I don't know that even splitting the money would really have any impact on that.
I do want to point something out though, all of the differing opinions are on whether or not to split funds now, NO one is recommending you have all the other R talk you were proposing in your original post.
As far as the R stuff goes, your best bet is to not discuss it, let her move out without giving her attitude or being mean, and get about improving lostasf... sounds like you've been having some good times with friends, just keep that up. It does get easier, and it seems like it's already improving a bit for you.
I remember when I was going through the stage you are currently in, I could not keep my mind off of all the goings on long enough to hold a conversation with anyone, I felt like I was in a fog when I was sitting around with friends or family and had absolutely no attention span. That attention span gradually increases and now I'm able to go days without even thinking about her or our sitch, I just go about doing things I want / need to do.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
Cnut, That was a point I made way earlier in my threads that when we separate finances it will have no impact on her lifestyle (a pro and a con of being super savers!).
I understand the R talk. I will not bring it up at all. I will simply state that since we will be living separate we should separate our finances.
I really appreciate you sharing your experience with the fog...I am definitely in that right now. I found myself sitting there with friends while they were talking for minutes at a time without hearing anything they said. I felt so bad about it, but luckily they understand the position I am in.
I haven't posted to you before and I have a few observations if I may.
It matters about Fins. Truly it does.
And in some sitches getting it right is vital, I think yours is one of those.
There is a difference between dividing the funds and taking safety measures until matters can be resolved and hiding or wasting assets.
Each M has its fairness and wanting the best for yourself going forward is wonderful. That is how it should be.
No matter how this ends it can be legal equitable and fair.
Using fins to punish your WW will backfire on you and is unlikely to give you clarity and the result you want.
I don't believe in the affair fog at all. Fear Obligation and Guilt are your territory not WW. She has no fog, she has determination to wayward play and in her playpen will be OM. You are an obstacle to that and Sandis view is an excellent one, OM is a symbol not a cause.
There is little you can do to prevent her headlong fall into wayward behaviour if that is her choice, you know of OM and thus there is nothing more for her to hide from you. It is part of her and her chosen path. OM is largely irrelevant at this point, her wayward thoughts are her own. You can no longer intercede to alter this course, it is her choice and your anger is unlikely to make any difference.
Often this makes no sense to us as non waywards. But it has sense to the wayward who feels entitled.
Protect yourself of course; and in my view use all fair and legal means to do so. I include the word fair and also the word legal deliberately in this.
There is an excellent book on the ten financial mistakes men make in D, and one of them is to be unfair, using fins to punish and to fight over trivia. It will cost you so play fair and legal. Hold your head up and remember the fin part of D is a business transaction. It is the breaking of the M contract, it's undoing and unravelling. Detach. Let her use and waste her resources to fund her A.
Obsession with OM should be WW not yours. We had a poster here who had such an Obsession with the OM it got in the way of detachment and caused him real damage.
There is much to manage in your sitch and a detatched stance will really help you I think so.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I am most certainly not using the finances to punish her. She will walk away with the same amount of liquid assets as I will which I feel is fair. I more so want to do the financial stuff now so that I can protect my retirement accounts just in case the D process goes as badly as some say it will. Obviously my hope is that we can reconcile and I won't have to deal with the D process, but I need to protect as much as I can just in case it goes that direction.
As for the fog: I don't know if I believe in it or not. A lot of the theory really lines up with what I am seeing on a daily basis, but I don't know if that necessarily proves anything.
