Maybe there's such a thing as love - but the 'happily ever after' love we're sold on since we are kids, that just does not exist, it is a fairy tale. For sure marriage as an institution is a joke, it is a sham kept alive by the government, by religion, by jewelers and greeting card companies, what have you. It is a society sanctioned way to promote having babies and buying into lifestyle of being an obedient tax payer.
What about the vows we took? The vows were for when we had problems like this, so we would have to work out our problems and stay together. But when the going gets tough she is just out the door without even going to counseling, and I'm slapped with divorce papers and her lawyers are coming for half my money. I guess everything was just a joke to her. And it is so easy for her to make all these profound life changing decisions not just for herself, but for me, and for our two kids.
I disagree that the "happily ever after" love doesnt exist. It just takes a lot more continued work than any of us ever imagined.
I was married in my early 20s. I pictured that I was set for life with my partner. As long as I didnt do "the unmentionable" things, then we'd figure out a way. But the thing was that our definition of what was unacceptable in a marriage was different. I wasnt a drunk, I wasnt abusive, I was always employed, I never cheated, etc. But I wasnt as supportive as I should have been. I wasnt as present of a parent as I should have been. I didnt make my love for my ex clear. And, so, the rug got pulled out from under me.
With all of that, I dont think it was the "marriage" that was a sham. I dont think that because that marriage failed, I should never get married. I can think of many benefits that I had because of being married. The problem wasnt with society, it was with me...I didnt know HOW TO BE MARRIED. Yes, if it were more difficult to be divorced, I would probably still be married now. But I live in a no-fault state. Always have. So, if my ex woke up one day and didnt want to be married, there wasnt anything I could really do about it. I made the choice every day to remain married, but one day my ex didnt. Sure, there were factors out of my control, but I didnt do what I needed to in order to ensure that both of us were continuing to wake up every day choosing to maintain the marriage.
Bravo darknes for expressing this so well. Ditto to all you say here I have come to this same conclusion for myself. There is little value in lashing out at love, marriage, the WAS..... There is much to be gained from learning from our own inactions, our own opportunities to grow and our current belief system. Failure can only happen if we choose to stop trying. Love is not a thing. It is a choice and an action Marriage is not a cage meant to hold 2 people together. It is a societal or government or religious contract of sharing assets It is not required in order to have children or be intimate with someone.
Love and marriage are separate things. Marriage does not require love Love does not require marriage
One can still choose to love if they so desire. We all know that there is risk when we choose to love. A marriage certificate does not remove the risk, nor should we want it to. Understanding that love should not come with stipulations is a mature emotional place that if we can get to, we will then take back the power we thought to have over ourself. The things said about loving oneself first, is key to any potential for a future healthy relationship.
Do we choose to hold the power over ourself? Or do we continue to hand that over to someone else? This is where the risk of loving someone becomes an acceptable one.
Me 46 Former W 46 D19 D7 BD Feb 2016 WAW moves out 4/16/16 D final 6/1/2017
It's time for me to start changin' the way I look at the world......and at myself. ~James Howlett aka Wolverine
One thing they teach on this board is 'you can't control the actions of others'.
Now given that fact, is it an acceptable risk to enter into a marriage relationship - now that we know that people can lie, behave unpredictably, can be vindictive, or just flat out change over time? No amount of communication or empathy can prevent bad things from happening sometimes. Which is fine. But, given that children are involved, and your net worth and properties - that's a hell of a risk to take.
I'm still for marriage, but I realize now that you have to be a more hopeful and naive person to take that risk. As a young person, you never think it would happen to you and that your relationship is special.
Me-45, W-37, T-10 yrs, M-9 yrs D -7 yrs, S-5 yrs BD-5/3/16, D filed 6/8/16
If there's another marriage in my future, then I'll probably require a prenuptial agreement.
I talked to my lawyer friend from the divorce support group about prenups. He said - the best prenups can do is protect your assets that you had before your marriage. They can't protect any assets you acquire after the marriage.
Therefore, prenups are great for say, a millionaire who marries a stripper. If they divorce, his millions that he acquired before the divorce are protected.
But say a guy like me, I have some assets, I marry a woman - we get married and 10 years later she wants to divorce. In that 10 years we probably bought a home together and contributed to our retirement plan. I didn't have millions in the bank going into this - and the 10 years we were together are when I acquired a huge chunk of my net worth. Even with a prenup I'd still be screwed.
Me-45, W-37, T-10 yrs, M-9 yrs D -7 yrs, S-5 yrs BD-5/3/16, D filed 6/8/16
"Now given that fact, is it an acceptable risk to enter into a marriage relationship - now that we know that people can lie, behave unpredictably, can be vindictive, or just flat out change over time? No amount of communication or empathy can prevent bad things from happening sometimes. Which is fine. But, given that children are involved, and your net worth and properties - that's a hell of a risk to take."
That's just called 'LIFE'. The same thing can be said about a career, your health, etc. There are no guarantees in life. Does that make you stop living? Of course not. Is everything always going to be perfect? Of course not. If you walked outside and got mugged. Would you stop going outside? Hopefully not. But you take that chance. You start a new job that you rely on for health insurance and income to live. Will you have it forever? Maybe, maybe not. Does that make you stop working? You buy a home to live in with everything you own. What if it catches fire? Does that mean you stop looking for places to live?
Everything has risk. You have a choice. You can either avoid risk by hiding or avoiding, or you can face it head on and just live and adapt to the changes that come.
The way you're questioning things is normal. Many of us have gone through that. But it's up to each individual to determine how to adapt to the situation they're in based on what they can control themselves.
One of the best things I ever did was to work in the children's cancer ward at the hospital. These kids are fighting for their lives, but they had a great attitude and didn't stop fighting. Some of them had inoperable cancers. Did that stop them from hoping? No. You'll get to that point.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Absolutely! Divorce is a huge money making machine for lawyers and judges. Successful divorce lawyers can make several million dollars each year and Judges as well get paid based on the number of cases they see. Why would they want to break this money making machine? Why would they want to make it cheap to divorce? Why would they want to make it hard or impossible to divorce? Children get scarred and become divorce seeking individuals as well as adults. Why would they want to stop this cycle?
Did that stop them from hoping? No. You'll get to that point.
I know, I think I'm just shooting the bull with you guys right now, and I'm just playing devils advocate.
So, the difference is
-you don't choose to get cancer. Or rather, someone doesn't have the power to choose cancer on you.
-you can't control if you'll be laid off from a job. But everyone has to work to live, you have no choice, marriage is optional.
Likewise, I don't think I'd compare getting laid off to an unexpected divorce of a long time marriage with children. Getting laid off is tough but it's not that bad.
Me-45, W-37, T-10 yrs, M-9 yrs D -7 yrs, S-5 yrs BD-5/3/16, D filed 6/8/16
Likewise, I don't think I'd compare getting laid off to an unexpected divorce of a long time marriage with children. Getting laid off is tough but it's not that bad.
You do realize how many of us here have been EXACTLY where you are right now, right?
Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
"-you don't choose to get cancer. Or rather, someone doesn't have the power to choose cancer on you."
The point is that like your sitch, it's not something that's in your control. But what is, is how you choose to confront the issue.
"-you can't control if you'll be laid off from a job. But everyone has to work to live, you have no choice, marriage is optional."
Not really. Look how many homeless guys there are. Work is optional also.
"Likewise, I don't think I'd compare getting laid off to an unexpected divorce of a long time marriage with children. Getting laid off is tough but it's not that bad."
Maybe in your profession or what you do, but I know many people who are living paycheck to paycheck. If they were laid off, they'd be living in their car with their kids.
Thing is you can go round and round debating what things are worse or not as worse as a D, and you can choose to stay on that merry go round if you want and live in fear. The ones who heal are the ones who get off and start a new path.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
I'm still for marriage, but I realize now that you have to be a more hopeful and naive person to take that risk. As a young person, you never think it would happen to you and that your relationship is special.
