Detachment and the end of limbo, sort of...too

[Phoebe]

And I'll be looking for it, SH.

Painter, you hit the nail on the head. The people that can hurt us the most, bar none, are those that we allow to get close to us. Speaking for myself, I've never let anyone as close as I let WH, and he was that close for 2 1/2 decades. I trusted him completely, therefore he was the only person that could possibly hurt me this deeply and also shake my very understanding of my own self. That's why I have had to reach out so much of others to help me sort through the remains.

Sometimes I wonder how my life became this surreal. Whenever anyone asks me some question about WH, they are pretty much always shocked by my answers. I am, too. It all makes me feel very powerless in my own life, that there has been so much change that was entirely outside of my control. It seems that WH felt he was powerless, and did everything he could to take back as much control as possible.

I am definitely not anywhere near anger again these days. Mostly, I'm just in the mode of sad acceptance, intermingled with a feeling that I just have to keep walking this path or I will never get off it. I long to be at the end of it, where I don't have to think about some aspect of it every day. If it weren't for the legal stuff, I can often simply forget about my whole M, beyond answering questions here and there. I like the spaces without WH.

Today I cut a small dog's toenails for the brother of a friend of mine, and I was reminded more and more how much I enjoy time with animals. This process has given that much back to me, at least. I so enjoy my farm cats and my flock of chickens. Today, for the very first time in a lot of years, I was actually thinking it might be nice to have a dog again. I haven't had one in quite a few years because I knew that I couldn't give a dog the time it needed and deserved, but I've been enjoying other peoples' dogs vicariously for years, and this year in particular.

I need to be careful. If I let myself, I might have a whole lot of animal responsibilities very quickly. As it is, I've doubled my flock this year, added a disabled toad to the menagerie, and I plan on adding bees next year. I don't want to get too crazy, especially because in the near future I am going to have to go back to work, and will have much less time for these pets.

Tonight I am off to an outdoor showing of the last Star Wars movie with L-friend. I think it will be a lot of fun. I spent a lot of my day so far with my parents, which is always a good thing, as well as emails to lawyers, which is less so...

Ah well. Walking, walking, walking this path is what I must do.

[Phoebe]

So, SH and I have been talking about my relationship with l-friend, and as it is part of my story that I want to be able to track as I move down this path, I decided I should get the essence of that conversation moved over here where I can keep track of it a bit better. I pulled out the bits and pieces from multiple posts.

From SH:

Do not become too dependent on temporary comfort or companionship to get through the pain. It can be like painkillers after surgery. They make you feel so good, but then you become addicted to something that is not good for you.
Slow down a bit.
Challenge yourself to take on some of the pain and chaos on your own.
This will prove that you can.
This will be the test to determine the level of healing you have achieved.
This is where you make big gains in strength and confidence.
Be cautious.
Get back to some basics of self love.
meditation, studying information that strengthens you, facing yourself.

I wrote back:

SH, I am working very hard on myself, and please know that I am not looking to another person to mask my pain or fill the void in my life, and certainly not to save me. I look to myself for all of those things. L-friend and I have an interesting way of interacting, and I can talk to him in a way that I haven't been able to talk to many others, except here on this forum. I am learning a lot from and with him about how to communicate effectively, something that I wasn't able to do with WH.

I'm not looking for happily ever after with this person. I am just letting things unfold without any expectation beyond being kind and supportive of each other. I am constantly monitoring to maintain a healthy, yet caring level of detachment. In fact, he is the person I know who struggles with depression. It is hard to watch, but I am not in any way forming a codependent relationship with him. I read my meditations on codependency daily, just in case, so I can recognize and nip in the bud any burgeoning tendencies I may be showing, and catch him when he shows any towards me. He will need to sink or swim on his own, just as I do, and he gets as many 2x4s as I give you.

SH replied:

It is good to hear some clarification on your sitch and your friends.
I trust that you are being cautious and observing what is needed to keep things in order.

I will say this simply out of concern for you as a friend and someone looking from the outside in and with some understanding of the struggles you are going through and the wild mix of emotions. Some of this I say for myself as well so as to stay out of a sticky relationship myself.

Be very careful in trusting the logical side of your brain as you say trying to watch for codependent behaviors and setting so many stipulations in a new found relationship.
The emotional side of your brain is running wild and desperate for companionship, actions of affection and someone to validate you in the ways you feel vulnerable. You indicated that there has been intimacy but that neither are looking for anything long term. And the final thing you mentioned that raises a flag is the challenge of depression he faces.

Step back a couple of paces and look at that mix and be completely honest what it appears.
I say this without any judgement. But please be careful.
Famous last words are when one says, I don't want anything long term, lets see how it plays out and I won't get attached.
These are words that you can only say for yourself.
What about him?


Anyway, I perceive this to be a touchy subject in this community that few want to give advice on nor touch upon with each other, and I want to tread cautiously.

You are a dear friend now.
You were with me in some dark times and even though we have not met, I feel a special sort of bond as we shared things that very few others know about outside this community.
And I would share this advice with any close friend or family member so I feel inspired to do so for you.
Please be extremely cautious and take time regularly to step back and look at it from a purely factual and logical standpoint removing personal emotions and needs aside.
Once certain lines are crossed in any sort of relationships, the slope is slippery and there is not going back with out some rough spots.

today:

SH, I hear exactly what you are saying, and I think about that nearly every day regarding l-friend. After having been so thoroughly rejected, part of me really does crave all of the things you mentioned. I recognize that. I don't know where this new relationship is going, quite honestly, and I am doing my best to keep the lines of communication open and to monitor for red flags. Yes, his depression is a major flag, waving right in my face, and I get that and have been concerned about it since the beginning.

We have talked frankly about our attachment levels, but you are absolutely right, it is high time l-friend and I checked in with each other again on this front and talked about it frankly and openly. We have done so previously, on more than one occasion, but things are getting more muddled over time, as you so rightly surmised.

Please feel free to say anything you wish to me, SH. I won't take offense. I may not agree with everything you say, but I would still like to hear it. You don't have to tread carefully with me. You have earned your place at my advisor's table, and I value your perspective.

________________

Ok, now that that's all here, I hope that others will be as kind as SH has been to me. I am fully open to receipt of 2x4s, but I hope they come with a little padding. I've taken to calling some of my feedback to L-friend "pool floaties." They're a bit gentler to be hit with.

I've been seeing l-friend as more than friends, and have been for a couple months. I know that some here really frown on the formation of new relationships without full completion of the D process, or even without letting a year or more pass afterward, but I'm just a simple human. I don't think that I am substituting one person for another, I know that my M is over and I have dropped the rope, and came to this realization before I allowed anything to develop with l-friend. I gave my M everything I had, and WH very systematically made it clear to me that it was truly over. Frankly, him telling me that consenting to work on our marriage would be "giving up on himself" was quite an awakening.

I feel better these days, and it's not because i am ignoring the pain. I am facing it every single day, and having someone around doesn't mask that reality. In some ways, it makes the pain more obvious because this new R is so strongly touched by what I am going through. There's nothing quite like a trigger being set off by an unsuspecting person, and having to share the history and explanation behind your out-of-the-blue meltdown. It is very humbling, and yet also an opportunity to learn to express myself better. I am learning a lot, and I am working on bettering myself every single day.

I admit that I am spending a lot of time with L-friend, but I also spend time with many other people and will continue to do so. Sometimes I feel spread a bit thin, but I endeavor to come out of this a broader, more balanced person, with more connections and a broader base of support than when it was just me and WH against the world. Plainly that was too many eggs in one basket.

What future is there in this relationship? I don't know. I do know, however, that it is based on mutual respect and friendship, not dependance or limerence. I have no illusions that this won't be difficult and sticky in its own way. I just hope that we can navigate it with grace and compassion.

As an aside, I have to say that my parents, who often are reluctant to show approval of me, and were definitely suspicious of all of my new friends, including l-friend before they met him, have shown no lack of support for me now. My father even pointed out to my mom that I seem like Phoebe again lately for the first time since December. They know what's normal for me, and certainly they've known me longer than anyone else on the planet!

I am eating (to the point that I've regained 20 of the 34 pounds I lost!!!), I am sleeping (mostly), I am working through a lot of issues every day, I am dealing with some major legal wrangling, I am caring for my creatures, developing new or neglected interests, and I am making new friends.

It is what it is, and I'm OK with that. I read my mediations on letting go every day, and I am letting go of the idea that I need to know how things are gouging to turn out. I am learning to appreciate what I have today and live in this moment. There is a lot of good to be had in the here and now. The past is immutable, and the future is unknown, but I can focus on making today a good one.

Today I am going to go see a movie in the great outdoors, and what could be better than that?

[Cherry]

I love to read your posts and see how good you are doing.

You have been on such a journey, and the success of it is down to the fact you've worked on you, focused on you. I truly admire you strength. You're doing it and continue to spread the positivity and support to the rest of us. I'm proud of you.

[SH_]

Good evening my bestie!
Swinging by to see how your weekend is going.
It's late and I have some thoughts to get down on my thread and yours, but I am tired, have an early morning, so will commit to dropping by with some substantial pondering and updates tomorrow for sure.

Sleep tight and don't let the bed bugs bite.

[Painter]

As an aside, I have to say that my parents, who often are reluctant to show approval of me, and were definitely suspicious of all of my new friends, including l-friend before they met him, have shown no lack of support for me now. My father even pointed out to my mom that I seem like Phoebe again lately for the first time since December. They know what's normal for me, and certainly they've known me longer than anyone else on the planet!

I am eating (to the point that I've regained 20 of the 34 pounds I lost!!!), I am sleeping (mostly), I am working through a lot of issues every day, I am dealing with some major legal wrangling, I am caring for my creatures, developing new or neglected interests, and I am making new friends.

These are really, really great things!

I can't imagine why your parents would be reluctant to approve of you. I hope you realize that's on them looking at the world with suspicion and not about you. You are a caring and compassionate, intelligent and highly accomplished person, who is also humble and undemanding and extremely hard working. There's nothing there to not approve of!

I hope your weekend is lovely and that the outdoor movie is fun! I've never been to one but I hear there is one not far from here, so I may go one of these days.

[SH_]

Good evening Phoebe.

There is a neighbor here the you might be able to help.
Coly23 is struggling with the waterworks and anxiety with a WAH and they are separated.
Thought you might have some wise advice from the things you have gone through.

I'll swing back in a bit.
Hope your weekend is going well.

[SH_]

How's my gal and all of her crazy GALing doing?

My goodness it's hard to believe that not so many months ago, you may have lead me to believe that you were not really of the skill set to GAL like you be doing now. Lol

I need to really put into practice some of what u are doing as I know I am sliding backwards and shying away from it all.
Not good for me if I'm gonna break on through to the other side.

Keep up the fun times, because why not eh?
Life is to short to just sit around doing nothing.

I hope you are doing well my dear friend.

(((((Phoebe)))))

[Phoebe]

Well, actially today has not been a good day. At all. I have been feeling disempowered and sad and crying and just plain crappy. I said something dumb (responded to a question about who I went to Europe with on my last trip truthfully, and it led to me having to tell a near-stranger the barest hint of my story. Just that H left inDecember, gone for good, etc.

The day just proceeded to tank from there. It ended up with my crying in l-friend's office, him being tired. Me saying I wasn't safe to drive home and him replying that it was a "school night" and he had to get home to bed. WTF? What part of not safe didn't get across? I actually wasn't sure I was safe in a much larger sense, I was so messed up, and about 2/3 of the way home I was hyperventilating and sobbing. Awesome. Really. His sleep was more important than my safety. that is going to be very hard to forget and forgive.

I don't understand people. At all.

More later. I desperately need to sleep.

[Sotto]

Hi Phoebe, I'm sorry you had a rough day. I always think they are important days though because it is only by feeling lousy and letting out some grief that we can ultimately heal.

I'm sorry your L friend wasn't able to help when you asked for it. Sometimes it is hard to be there for other people when we are tired and busy.

Thinking back, I can recall another instance where you were upset and wanted to talk and he didn't. Do you think you are trying to rely on him for something he doesn't have to offer? Let me ask you - if L friend wasn't in the picture at all, would you still be okay?

Often I find that a poor day is followed by some good ones. I think because we feel calmer and have released some emotion. I hope that's the case for you.

Take care Phoebe and hope today is a better one. Xx

[Phoebe]

Thanks, Sotto, for checking in on me. And to answer your question, yes, i would be ok if l-friend wasn't in the picture.

Today already feels like a better day. I got a ton of sleep, and I always wake up feeling happier. Sleep is the best mood reset button I know!

Time to go out and play with my critters.