And now we wait

[ForGump]

BPD or not, her A is going to blow up. I'm sure of it.

When I miss my W like crazy, and the thought of her w/ someone else feels like daggers ... I try to re-focus on what kind of a person she has become. What has she done to me. What is she doing to our kids and our family. That helps a tiny bit.

[AndrewP]

Well - while we're sitting here in the green room waiting for the next act I just wanted to chat a bit about "Why Do I Have Hope". No 2X4s please - just wasting the internet a bit and possibly trying to reinforce my resolve after a tough week. Tomorrow I go back to work and will be trying to spend only an "appropriate" amount of time here.

Fair warning though - this is a lot of rambling nonsense so please don't bother reading looking to pick it apart or get me to "see sense" or if you have something better to do like watch paint dry. This is mostly written for me.

What W has told me - let's pretend to believe it for now:
- On BD2 she said that OM was serious about her but she was unsure.
- She didn't "intend" to have an A - it was "accidental".
For a long time I didn't really pay much attention to this. I originally interpreted it as her getting drunk one day and falling on her back. I thought that she kept at it because of the rush and guilt and because she thought that it ended our marriage. I put a lot of blame on OM who I knew had been chasing after her. I also attributed WW with callous motives looking for a better situation because OM is wealthier. My current mind-reading on this is that she fell in love with a man who was showing sympathy and kindness to a vulnerable woman and who was more than willing to provide comfort. Not sure about the truth of any of this though. It's not a topic I pursued with W. This gives me two types of hope. The first one is a bit callous. If she goes to OM then I can possibly get off with a minimal divorce settlement. The second type of hope is that it could imply that she's not committed to the A or the WW lifestyle.

W has consistently and emphatically resisted any permanent changes I suggested that would pave the road out for her or add risk to our situation. This includes me thinking about managing our investments myself, suggesting canceling insurance policies that were over and above what would be necessary to clear the estate, me changing jobs to a more interesting but riskier one. Other things such as backing down when I threatened to remove my wedding ring, keeping the A a tightly guarded secret and being horrified of me filing for divorce with grounds of infidelity making that public knowledge also adds to the tally. She has also up until she moved out consistently kept wearing all of her rings beyond just the wedding band that would be required to fool the world. I presume she still is wearing them but can't say for sure.

Even though W has had a meeting with a L - nothing has come out of that (as of yet at least but it's been weeks). She would realize that once that train starts rolling that it would be tough to stop and that I have the power to drive it because I have grounds for divorce.

Even though she's had lots of opportunity I believe that she hasn't told S22/D24 about OM. As far as I can tell OM's children are also not aware although that is something that I can only guess from her not connecting to them on social media and the fact that she seems to have a distinct line between OM and his son who currently does the deliveries into W's store.

All of this leads me to believe that she's not sure that her future lies with OM - again I could be completely wrong here.

When the house was stripped now 3 1/2 weeks ago it was done in a bizarre mix of methodical and random. W has had lots of opportunities to come back when I'm not here and grab more stuff. There are a couple of items that stand out strongly mainly our files and the copy of her parent's will. Also still here are many of the pills and potions that made her beautiful and helped her get through the day. Nothing prescription and nothing irreplaceable but easy to just come back and toss into a box. The infamous boxes in our front porch that I so helpfully packed for her are also still there.

W loves her job and has a lot of pride in her standing in the community. Even though it would have been easy for her to move in with OM it would be a fair sized but not unreasonable commute. Also when communicating with my barber she made a point of referring to herself as AndrewP's wife as a way of identifying herself. There really was no reason for her to make that association.

W continues to be connected on Facebook to all of my relatives and while she didn't participate in any of the group chats around family events she was definitely monitoring them. It would be dead easy for her to just unfriend a whole block of people and remove that noise. On a related note I did tell her that my family would welcome her back on the night before she left. Oddly none of WW's relatives including her brother who was encouraging her have unfriended "me". One theory is that they're keeping an eye on me. I post updates often enough that it is noticeable noise on their news feed.

W appears to have shed the bulk of the enabling friends and they her. This could have multiple reasons and I'm not sure what's going on here. Her "cry for help" post a few days ago was only "liked" by one mutual friend (who has been very kind to me) and by my SIL that W likes and admires (at my request). The posts that the "friends" placed around move out day tagging her went unanswered / unliked by her as well. She has been pressing "like" on posts by people who weren't in the "echo ensemble" though so it's targeted.

She may be feeling the loss of S22/D24. She made an effort to reach out to them just before she left on Facebook and was met with silence. Additionally S22 backed out of a visit when she said she wanted to see him. WW did go to see him though. She would know though that her A will hurt her standing in their eyes.

W made a point of taking 3 documents that she could have just tossed / shredded. One was the letter I wrote her asking her to reconcile. Another was a list I had done up as an exercise on her positive and negative attributes. The third was the draft copy of the document I was working on that identifies the steps towards reconciliation. No clue as to what this means but it "hopeful".

It took "forever" for W to actually leave the house. There were multiple partial steps but it only came to a completion much later. Oddly W told me that she almost canceled leaving when she did because I had had a good day that day and she didn't want to spoil it for me (???)

Even though she could have been far more manipulative and led a more comfortable life W almost insisted on being a martyr making daily life difficult for her. A silly and simple example of this was her continued use of the master bath to clean her teeth. She could have easily just moved her toothbrush but instead would timidly knock on the MBR door, ask to be admitted and then rush through, clean her teeth and then rush out usually looking straight ahead.

One possible "advantage" of having W in the house for so long was that I think that I was able to shine in terms of what a great H I am and how well I did on my GAL and on being self-sufficient. She certainly noticed the almost complete cessation of drinking and the improvements in my appearance. She certainly noticed that I always treated her with courtesy and honesty and (which gave me my false hope at one point) did the same to me. We would also fairly often sit and chat just like in the "good old days". This means that when she left that I believe she had a positive image of me to carry with her. It may have been accidental but she also took a framed picture of me that used to be at her bedside while leaving behind other things from the same part of the room.

Speaking of my false hope day (June 4th) I can't help but think that the A must have at least cooled substantially. There were very few unaccounted absences. It was only just before she moved out that there were a few "dinner with friends" evenings otherwise she told me where she was and who she was with and it was all very plausible.

Finally when she left she was obviously terrified and perhaps torn. I did insist on her telling me if she did still love me and she said that yes she did.

So - what we may have here then is a woman who is in love with 2 men. The path to either of them is difficult in different ways.

Knowing W's likes and dislikes and the little I know about OM they have few compatible interests. If she goes to him she'll (very likely) lose her job that she loves and the respect of the community. Not so much because she'll be fired or shut out but the longer commute will be tough on her and the whispering and disdain from people will be tougher. She will be an intruder into an established family replacing a well loved mother and grandmother and also being a threat to the children's legacy of the family business. Relations with S22/D24 will be strained and she may actually not be able to keep even the historically tenuous contact she had with them. Her own family will on one hand probably crow to see me gone but very likely will not be welcoming of OM. Her mother certainly won't be. WW will also find herself the featured entry in the regular bashing her family does of people who have marital problems.

If she comes back to me she will have to swallow a lot of pride and do a lot of work to rebuild the trust that was abused. She will also be giving up on her dreams and will still have under it all the reasons she originally felt that she needed to leave.

The third path is for her to go off on her own. She knows that I would not keep the secret of her A if she does this. I stated it as a fact, not as a threat in that I only am protecting her because she is family. She would struggle to keep her place in the community and may be obliged to move and start over somewhere else fresh.

There is a fourth path that I need to acknowledge although I hope it doesn't come to that. In dark times WW has talked about suicide and there haven't been any times as dark as this.

So - why does this give me hope? Mainly because I think the ball is still in play and that WW hasn't decided.

[Raul]

Crap. I drove by WW's house to go and get groceries and OM was there walking in the back yard with her. I've not seen him before but know what he looks like. On my way back a short while later (don't need many groceries) WW was getting into OM's vehicle.

I knew in my head that she now has her little love nest even though I denied it at first. "IS" she still thinking and trying to make up her mind?

I feel like calling her and screaming at her.
I feel like blasting this all over Facebook.
I feel like giving up.
I feel like crying - sorry - already doing that.

Crap

Me and you AndrewP are in the same boat. My WW has a love nest herself. I only passed by her place once since she got her apartment two months ago. The other times to pick up our daughters. I highly suggest not pass her place, cause you are hurting yourself more. The first time I did it, my heart was racing and pounding. Not sure of myself of what would I do if I saw the OM. Much power to you for not confronting OM, cause I know at this time, I would have confronted the OM with a fist. Another reason why I stay away, I don't want my daughters to be taken away from me.

I deactivated my facebook account for now. For me, I know I can ruin my dignity even more with her family members, military friends and former coworkers if I went on Facebook and express myself and trashed her there. So no Facebook for me until I know I have full control of my emotions.

In the last what almost 3 months, I gave up like 4 times. Eventually I decided to fully go dark. Doing this for me now.

Cry brother, let it out. Trust me, you will feel better. I can count the many times I went home for lunch just to scream and cry hard. Don't hold it in. I recall once pulling over in a secluded area and screaming.

We are here for you. I care about you, so you keep going cause you are not the only one doing this. We might know each other but remember you got friends here, myself included offering each other support. I know you supported me too and I really appreciated that.

[AndrewP]

I dug this up from my thread a couple weeks ago. A piece of my mind-reading gone wrong and darknes being right.

Its interesting to me that you think your W has gone dark to OM. Frankly, I have a hard time believing that is the case.

Im pretty sure the "noise" she references is all of the people that are telling her that her R with OM is wrong.

Ignoring what this means about WW and OM it does help me feel a bit better in that I may have more support and sympathy from my neighbours and friends than I thought I did. No clue if this also means that W's isolation might be more involuntary that I thought or if that is having an impact on her. The place she is in is both an isolated house on the edge of the village with no internet access and a house that stands naked by itself with her unique and well known vehicle next to it.

I'm still recovering from seeing them together yesterday. I have to fight the "give up" feeling and get back to the "detach". A good friend of mine here at work was really pushing his "give up" message to me today. It was tough to not break down in the face of his "certainty".

P.S. - if CT1118 happens by I did have a chance to respond to your question. If you'd like to give me your thoughts I'd appreciate it. Unfortunately my answer was buried on a previous page by my drama and ramblings
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2696683#Post2696683

[lt0402]

AP, completely get what you're going through. It's much tougher than I'd thought to truly detach. Besides the incident the other day though it sounds like you're on the right track (mind reading post from last night aside ).

Keep at it brother, you'll get through seeing her and the OM together just like you've gotten through everything else so far!

[AndrewP]

Minor update. I think I'm overall getting better at detaching.
- A few days ago when I pulled out of the drive WW was in her car opposite. I was tempted to wave but ignored her. She drove off quickly in a random direction (to hide where she was living I think) She would certainly know that I saw her and that I didn't do anything.
- On Sunday when driving past WW's house while she and OM were getting into his vehicle I (hope I didn't) slow down or anything as I drove past. WW did look up but might not have seen/recognized the car. It "is" a small village though. Again a lack of response at seeing her just as if she were another neighbour.

Now for the over-analyzing and mind-reading portion of the program.

Last night was a weird one. A few days ago on our anniversary WW had posted a (now incredibly rare) posting on Facebook that was essentially a cry for help and got pretty much no response. I can certainly understand the angst she may have been feeling that day. Last night she posted a few things the first of which a picture that was a definite cry for help I am a strong person but once in a while I would like someone to take my hand and tell me that everything is going to be alright. "Of course" I immediately melted and felt that I needed to reach out to her and comfort her but then I didn't. Instead I got on the SIL messenger group and asked them to also not pay any attention to it either. Then I replied to an email from a female (platonic) friend confirming dinner on Friday and went to bed. I was also tempted to fill another couple of boxes - I'm still feeling ticked about seeing her with OM.

I don't know how many of you remember the old TV show "Get Smart". Just like "The Chief" I should have no business running a secret conspiracy. WW had also posted a couple of other things on FB and one of the SIL team replied back that she didn't press like on the used car ad that WW had shared from a friend but that she had pressed "like" on the call for help - sigh. One of the things she had posted as well was something that when she was in the house I would have been all over but again I ignored it and went to work.

This morning WW had received only 4 response comments to her call, 3 of which were from people who know she's moved out. One was her boss who just said "take care". The other two responses made me go "er?" because in my "trying to make sense of things" world - they didn't make sense. I suppose it depends on the narrative that she's been feeding them. The responses were for her to "be patient - things will work out". They believe they are waiting for something to happen to/for WW? Maybe they think the ball is in my lap? I'm pretty sure that one of them does not know directly about OM. I was tempted (but didn't) reach out to them to ask WTF? The last response was of strong support and love from a very sweet and very religious lady that has been a great friend to WW for many years who has no clue as to any problems. Probably made WW twitch a bit.

WW dutifully pressed "like" on each of the responses EXCEPT the one from her boss which again was just weird.

My own FB review today was tough. There's a feature "on this date" which for the last while has been nothing but happy memories of WW and I together. She's probably seeing the same thing. I did a couple of semi-random things that didn't involve WW to appear to GAL and moved on with my day.

I "know" I'm doing the right thing by not reaching out when WW posts these calls for help online. Or am I? I gave this a lot of thought last night because if this is the beginning of a trend of WW having bad days and reaching out to the world inside me I feel that I should be the one responding and showing love and support. But that's pursuing and might drive her away.

Are these "temp checks"? The addition of the other share that would have been very attractive to me and she knows it adds to that (mind reading!). If I understand the "plan" that I should be following it's that I need to wait for her to reach out directly to me before responding, otherwise move on without her.

I do worry that she might be heading into a downward spiral with no one to catch her. One other thing that crossed my mind is that NEVER in over 50 years of life has WW been as truly alone as she is now. Sure there's OM around but it's not every day. She moved from her parent's house into a flat where she spent her time visiting with her landlady and friends. From there in with me. Now she's in a house by herself at the edge of town with no "real" internet connection (she must be blowing through her mobile data plan), scared, lonely and confused. I hurt for her.

Sigh - this DB thing is hard and confusing.

P.S. "Better at detaching" doesn't mean I'm good at it yet. Now 2 weeks since last contact. And yes I should stop looking at Facebook I suppose. I did "unfollow" her but for some reason Facebook finds it necessary to send me an alert when WW posts / shares content directly rather than just "liking". It's pretty minimal these days and gives me an anonymous "temp check" of hers that's how I justify it in my own mind. If I start getting too wrapped up in it then I'll need to find a way to switch that off too.

[Rose888]

You weren't kidding when you labeled it "over-analyzing."

You are giving way too much weight to the liking or not liking of comments. My behavior on Facebook is much less logical and prone to momentary distractions (holding coffee, working on my phone, watching TV, etc).

Also, you seem to think that your wife won't like living alone. Not sure why. A very common theme in books and convos by and about middle-age women is the freedom of living alone. She might be loving the solitude.

[AndrewP]

Rose888 - that's why I unfollowed her to get rid of the "less logical" noise that was driving me even more mad than I am now. The "cry for help" was very specific (again mind-reading) and there's a "protocol" around those sorts of things (in my mind anyway and I believe in WW) just like when people give you birthday greetings. We're from a land where "thank you cards" are still considered essential and kindnesses are acknowledged.

About living alone - You could be right - WW did comment at one point that she'd like living alone. She just never has in over 50 years. She has always seemed to crave company and conversation. Not really a big issue though long term. It was more a concern that as she struggles with all of "this" that her safety net seems to have largely fallen apart. I know from past experience that OM very much cannot be relied on to be there for her. There have been some big crisis where he been "not available". What I don't know is how far I should let her fall before trying to catch her which is where I was going with my rambling nonsense.

Rose888 - I know we've butted heads multiple times (and I still think my chest is pretty manly and my GAL while not great isn't "pathetic" as you've called it) and you push fairly hard the heavy duty detachment and moving on. I am very worried about WW though and want to be sure that I do the "right" thing to be ready if she turns my way which is why I'm watching and waiting.

[Rose888]

Andrew, please allow me to apologize again for using the word "pathetic." It was a very poor choice of words.

Because I share my computer with kids, I only access this board on my iPad or phone. Because I hate typing with my thumbs, this means my posts are shorter than they would otherwise be, and I tend to get right to the point. I don't sound terse in my head, so I don't always realize how my posts sound to others.

There is something about your situation that I find compelling. You seem to be a great guy who is making this situation harder on yourself than it needs to be. I post in the hope of helping you avoid pain.

That said, it seems I'm hurting more than helping, so I'm going to bow out.

I wish you the very best of luck.

[ForGump]

AndrewP -- please consider taking a break from social media. Like any addiction, it will be hard the first couple of days, but then you'll get used to it. I'm working on weaning myself of FB also. The first baby step I took was to delete the app from my phone. That helped cut down quite a bit of FB use. And I'm avoiding it at work. One thing that helps me do that is realizing that all your friends can see how recently you've been on, and I really don't want to be a 40-something guy who checks FB 20 times a day.

More importantly, I'd like to ask you something: if everything went south and you really have to move on ... can you see yourself dating again? What type of a woman would you like to date? Would you seek any quality that your W does not have? Do you have any acquaintances currently that, just hypothetically, you'd be willing to date?