WAS or what 7

[roist]

More of the same or turning point? Time will tell but anyone with comments opinions please feel free to share.

At the end of July/ start of August, we shared several weekends away in family and worked together s bit on our house. R was not strained but not connected either.

The more time we spent together,the less time I want to spend together. Essentially we are physically sharing the same space, sharing responsability for sons. I for one enjoy my time with sons more without her (at least like this).

Anyway the last two weeks I have an internal battle going on. I am certain this: s not how I want to live and so much so that if: cannot sleep I cannot stand being in bed with her. So I get up and watch TV or better still the stars. Man the sky is lovely on a clear night.

Sunday night I not only left the bed, but also the house in my car. It was 1 am. She heard the car which woke her. This was a risk and not deliberate but I didn't overly care.I don't think I was being passive aggressive,iI just wanted to get out of the house for me.

I went to a calm country road and parked. Watched the stars and then read some R/M stuff. I think by leaving I put myself in a position that would force me to decide my path.

I decided that my path was with my family and I would continue my work on self. I still have to determine how to be with W, but for now I am a bit too tired to care. I am not resentful or cold, but just not interested in how things are.

Just before going home that night I checked my phone and saw W had tried to contact me just after I left. Shortly after I got in she came to wonder what I was at. She found my action irrational, to which I validated. She was right.My W did not push to know what I did, why or where so I didn't say. I just said I wasn't sleepy and took some air.

If my W did the same I would not be happy. Shortly after we went back to bed she got up for an hour or so. I tried to sleep so I left her. The next morning I apologized for having woken her. I worked on a DIY project for the morning and we went to the beach for the afternoon.

Last night I had hassle with our youngest at bedtime. She stated I should pass the relay or ask for help in such circumstances, as I AM NOT ALONE . I really bit down hard not to react to that one. She is right about the relay/help part as I do tend to try to be as self sufficient as possible.

I could see my W trying, as I have many times before. Trying to what I don't know. To keep things as they are?

She asked about if I wanted to go to her sister's this weekend. I didn't for many reasons. I explained these with the exception of
Not wanting to play happy families. She asked if I minded her going. I said no but I would probably do something alone the following weekend with the boys. This was not vengeful but just how I felt.

Maybe we are building up to putting words on our woes. Maybe it is just another dip in the roller coaster. I am writing all of this to have views on my behaviour and path. I accept I cannot control this aspect of my life and I place faith in that this is leading to a better place.

Although I would prefer to spend the weekend with my boys, I am so looking forward to the weekend alone. It is exactly what I need.

I am very tired writing this so I hope it is coherent. I had a busy weekend with lots of socialising so the tiredness isn't all due to Sunday night.

[roist]

i Zephyr,

Thank you for your reply and for taking the time to think about my situation before sharing your appreciated thoughts. I will now reply to your points in the order you expressed them.

Yes there is pain and truth. Thank you for seeing that. I read somewhere that when we feel bad, that means that our path is not aligned with our destiny. I take light from that. I am meant to have a happy fulfilling life and R. I know this and this will be. I choose to give every opportunity that that R is with W but have decided to not force that. Garth Brooks sings a great song about unanswered prayers being often the best gifts. Time will tell.

I am not sure I love her anymore. I choose to love. I choose her. Is that the same? Isshe worth it? I think so, but not like this. At the moment NO. To be fair my W is carrying our family too. The disconnection between us, has pushed me towards a holding strong position for my boys. But my W has always been there doing what needs to be done, in the best interests of us THREE. So I am not carrying the family. The best I can claim is to not have exploded it despite personal pain.

Yes all the other stuff is just that "other stuff" and is part of my life and independent of my R with W. I fully accept that and work on them as such. They will be with me regardless of what the future holds. I still think it is healthier if the are balanced with a healthy R. I don't have a good R and have limited control over that but the rest is within me to improve.

My post seemed to be me outining my problem and then the solution.I followed my own advice and in the week that followed I did four sport activities, listened to self help videos (mostly gratitude, self talk) plus some music. I also organised some stuff for work, had good times with boys, got out of the house twice to meet people alone and twice socially as a family.

Am I letting go? I have let go trying to control the outcome. Have I dropped you famous rope. I don't think so. I think W is still on the other end too. I have given her enough space and slack to go whatever direction she wants. I am ready to cut the rope if it is somewhere I don't want to go. But if I tug on that rope or if I push on that rope, W remains constant. This is just an observation.

Hopefully the dynamics are changing.My distancing, lack of interest etc are not specifically to change the dynamics to improve us, more me moving away from what we have.

I am tempted to talk to W. To say this situation does not suit me. I am even tempted to say it without a backup plan. But I agree in general with the principal of talking by actions not words. That being said, not talking feels more like avoiding and avoidance is a past trait I want to remove. I don't want to hide or run away. I want to face this head on. Even Michelle talks about raising warning to: ultimate defcon before walking. But she was more so talking in terms of WAS and not LBS.

Thanks again Z

[Zephyr]

Even Michelle talks about raising warning to: ultimate defcon before walking. But she was more so talking in terms of WAS and not LBS.

Thanks again Z

I will respond more later, but I just wanted to acknowledge I've read and have one quick thing to say.

in your situation right now, do you really think there is an actual distinctly between LBS and WAH?

those feeling you are feeling now, your wife likely felt for a long time as she built her walls / creating distancw as you are doing now. you have help, you have knowledge and tools and you are aware.of this dynamic. maybe this is a look into what wife could have gone through idk.

food for thought and maybe some compassion for yourself and for your wife. you know I don't do short well, but really have to go...have meetings like crazy today. I will try ro elaborate my thoughts betteregarding when I get the chance.

I know all you typed is hard and it took real courage to say it out and get it out there. I applaud you!

gotta run, more later

[Zephyr]

*distinction, damned autocorrect

[roist]

I look forward to hearing your other thoughts. I have often pondered that. I feel like lbs and was. Yes this gives me insight into her world.I see her pain and understand it. This has helped me not be so hard on her.

I imagine her feeling like me and am impressed she is still here. Her reasons are her own, but she has stuck it out. It probably helps that she has mastered detachment!!

[Cadet]

I look forward to hearing your other thoughts. I have often pondered that. I feel like lbs and was. Yes this gives me insight into her world.I see her pain and understand it. This has helped me not be so hard on her.

I imagine her feeling like me and am impressed she is still here. Her reasons are her own, but she has stuck it out. It probably helps that she has mastered detachment!!

More than likely she mastered depression.

I agree that the LBS eventually becomes a WAS.
I sometimes think that when MWD writes, she is talking to the LBS when we really think she is talking to the WAS.

Just my .02

[roist]

Thanks cadet. That one line makes a huge impact. Having someone else notice she could be depressed is good. I avoid labelling and essentially that changes nothing in real terms, except somehow it does for me.

As for your other point,are you suggesting I should raise my warning to Max and let her know she is losing me? I imagine most of what Michelle wrote is for lbs as we are mostly her audience. The defcon alert was I think in relation to WAS who's lbs never knew because they never understood the messages/warnings.

[Cadet]

As for your other point,are you suggesting I should raise my warning to Max and let her know she is losing me?

No I am not really saying that, because I doubt she would listen or hear you.

That is why your comments about actions instead of words lets me know that you already know that point.

I wish their was an easy button but I have not come across it yet.

[roist]

I thought so, but never hurts to check. Thanks again.

[Zephyr]

good morning bro.

sorry so quiet, have had virtually no time to sit and type

when i read your post the other day i had lots of thoughts about what it meant to let go and what does giving up on this really look like.

I reread your post again this morning. something jumped out and maybe want to talk about that instead.

you highlighted a statement from your wife saying you are not alone in this. I am curious (because I have been guilty of this in the past) of how closed off from your wife you have really been, not just now but throughout your marriage.

how often have you just plowed through a task when it could have been easier to ask for help...when asking wasn't even an option in your head.

how often have you just gone and did something because you just felt it needed to be done, didn't wait and had wife say something like, oh I was going to do that or fix that or whatever.

how often have you held back your feelings from her, as opposed avoid a conflict or in order to not make a big deal about something.

these are just a few examples, but they show a pattern of you building an emotional wall up between you and your wife. we talk her all the time about the walk away spouse feeling hopeless and alone in the marriage for years and finally they build the walls.

when two people have these impediments and hold themselves back from more harm, there is little hope without a physical separation for this interaction to change, right.

so how does this ever change? well I'm glad u asked

one person has to make themselves vulnerable and start to open up, start to welcome intimacy otherwise the other will never try anymore, because they feel they've already tried all they could and all they will ever see is the stone wall, the unresponsiveness, the closed off attitude, the one or two word responses. They see us as unapproachable and MUCH THE SAME as it has always been. It just reinforces the ‘things (he) will never change’ sentiment that likely started the detachment for the WAS.

the fact that your wife opened up just a crack and told you roiste, you are not alone, that made me cry. not because of how alone you have felt all this time. no, that is something different, no...because your wife showed you a little bit of openness and honesty in an effort to connect with you / work with you / share with you. Maybe you could find a way to do the same, with asking for help or doing something together that you would have historically just done by yourself. We are building something new here, maybe try something different...can you do that?

It may have felt like a criticism of your behavior. It may have come off as a complaint. Did you feel angry when she said that to you? IMHO, Anger in this case would be a response of score keeping on your side. Maybe it is frustration or whatever. Those are your feelings and you should acknowledge them and allow yourself to feel them, right…just not control your actions unless it is constructive.

This is my take on this and yes there is some mind reading going on, and as always I could be way off base

The second piece that struck me was your comment that you don’t even know if you love her. This is something only you will ever be able to know. Maybe you could work it out by describing what you think love is, and how that differs from how you feel about her…or maybe even by describing what you think is missing in your feelings for her, for it not to constitute as love. I don’t know that you need to post this stuff back to us all, maybe as an exercise with yourself to help work out your feelings…or maybe a trip to the IC to help sort this out (This is exactly the kind of stuff I work out with my IC). It is very personal. Very deep stuff that I would not blame you if you needed to keep offline.

I do think that is something worth looking at, is it that you don’t feel IN LOVE where or you just don’t hold any feelings at all? I think this is something that the WAS deals with for a long time, emptiness…lack of longing or desire…lack of satisfaction with a relationship…lack of fulfillment, where finally they decide that they are no longer in love. If this is how you feel, and you are entitled to your feelings it might be worth looking at the why, and what you want to do about it. Is your wife losing you...are you ready to be done...is she actually ready to hear you. i don't think she is done 'cooking' but she is starting to look at things a little different than before. if now you start to push for more, she very well will get defensive and withdraw.

Ok, so I’ve gone on and on again and I have to get back to work

-----------------------------------------

so honestly i typed this a few days ago and it felt awkward. i have not had a chance to smooth it out. I do think there are two thoughts in there and i don't think they are necessarily contradicting themselves, i think both thoughts are worth looking at.

My biggest take-away from this...that i never got around to was that your focus on you needs to intensify. you finding a way to meet your own needs of companionship and fun should be a focus for you. i know you've gone out for beers a couple of times, what else have you been doing to work on forging, growing interpersonal relationships outside of the house and workplace...have you been making new friends or improving existing ones?

Again sorry for the lack of continuity in the thoughts....this was typed over multiple days when i had a few moments of alone / quiet time. (school started last week so schedules are extra full).

(((Roiste)))