A WW?

[ForGump]

Your wife sounds deeply angry at you. What particular issues is she angry about? I wonder if there is a way for you to own up to your failings, and demonstrate that you've changed. I think there is a way to do this so it's not about caving in, or being a door-mat, but you simply owning up for your own integrity and betterment, and to enable you to move on. And leave her with no excuses for hanging on to her anger for you. Didn't the Divorce Remedy book say you should make a list of your faults and ways to fix them? (Maybe it's another self-help book I read.)

Just a thought. Open to what others think of this. There are so many things about your wife that seem similar to my wife.

[lt0402]

ForGump, there is a lot of anger there and a decent amount of it is probably deserved. There were times when I wasn't there for her in the past like I should have been, I haven't always been great at following through on commitments (i.e. Projects around the house, yard, etc) in a decent amount of time, and I lost focus on my D and put too much focus on work.

Those three things seem to be her largest and longest held sources of anger. Those are also the things I'm working the hardest on fixing. Being there for her is next to impossible right now though bc she won't give me the time of day. But the other two I'm hammering on, mainly for the benefit of D and myself.

Wife is not without fault either, but my focus there is not letting her use me as a doormat. I'm slowly gaining back my self respect at home and letting her know, sometimes subtlety and sometimes not so much, that she can't walk over me.

There are a multitude of other problems/issues the W has lobbed out post BD, but I think the 3 above are the core issues. I took the path of showing her how changed and great I was for about 4 weeks, but it only led to her moving further away from me.

Now I focus on D and myself and bettering those bonds and let W figure out her stuff. I can't control how she reacts or what she does, but I can make her see the mistake she's making for leaving a fixed version of the man she fell in love with. If she does leave then I need to be a rock for my D bc it'll get messier from here. Also, if I can fix myself then my next MR should only stand to benefit. W seems to want to be alone, but I'm wanting to be with someone who cares and wants a partnership going forward. Need to be fix my issues, regardless if W decides to follow this path with me.

Saw your thread, but not a lot of details. if your W is similar to mine, there's plenty of dos and donts laced throughout my thread. Happy to lend advice where I can brother. Biggest thing to realize with all this stuff is that you are doing it for yourself. If your W chooses to follow your path, all the better. But regardless of outcome you need to come out the other side as a stronger and better man than when you came in. Keep your head up bud!

[lt0402]

Really wish I could figure out how to break the cycle W and I are in w/ regards to our communication. At a loss of how to engage her when she continues to keep me at arms reach. The communications are no different than they have been over the past 8 months or so, unsure if there's a 180 I should be doing there.

I continue to focus on my issues and making myself better for my D. Just wondering if there's something I should be doing to at least get her to re-engage as far as dialogue goes. Am I over thinking it and should I ignore it and focus just on D and me?

Seems like there's a 180 to be made there, but not sure what it is.

Appreciate any thoughts/ideas!

[ForGump]

ForGump, there is a lot of anger there and a decent amount of it is probably deserved. (1) There were times when I wasn't there for her in the past like I should have been, (2) I haven't always been great at following through on commitments (i.e. Projects around the house, yard, etc) in a decent amount of time, and (3) I lost focus on my D and put too much focus on work.

(1) and (3) are important, but projects around the house ... IMHO that's unreasonable to get a divorce over, especially if you have a full time job outside the house.

Really wish I could figure out how to break the cycle W and I are in w/ regards to our communication.

Maybe it's not up to you....

[RSG]

I continue to focus on my issues and making myself better for my D. Just wondering if there's something I should be doing to at least get her to re-engage as far as dialogue goes. Am I over thinking it and should I ignore it and focus just on D and me?

Judging by your descriptions of the old lady, she's still fogged up and doesn't care. Until she starts to come back to the real world, you're just not going to get through. The waiting game really stinks, but that's what it is. The 180 here is to cut down on YOUR communication. It's difficult I know, especially since she's still at home. But, the less you shoot the bull, the more she'll wonder about you. Keep the dialogue to bare minimum, that's really all you can do for a while.

[PsySara]

Keep your conversations light and polite. If you are grumpy or angry, make yourself scarce until you can be more detached. Make yourself mysterious, keeps your answers a bit general when/if she asks about your whereabouts or your day.

[lt0402]

ForGump, agree with you on #2 not being something that would warrant a S or D. I've highlighted in the past that my job takes a lot out of me, but she typically views that as an excuse on why things aren't always taken care of immediately.

She always goes back to when she was working and how she was able to handle her house stuff plus our D. The only issue w/ that logic is she only worked for 3 mo's after our D was born and then became a stay at home mom. Combine that w/ my career now being in a much different place than we were in then and she just truly doesn't seem to understand that there's no real comparison. I feel like I'm penalized for having driven so hard to become successful to support our family. That's very frustrating for me and has been for some time.

RSG, I believe you're right, just finding myself holding out hope there may be something I haven't thought of yet that'd open up comms w/ her. We don't really converse on anything but D and finances, which is a continuation of the past 8 months. I find myself worrying that if it continues then I'm just throwing in the towel. I am realizing that I can't control when/if she wants to chat with me though, so you're right that it is a waiting game.

Sara, the week after she went to the lake to see OM I was very angry and avoided her, minus one R talk that she initiated. That did not end up well. Been working hard since to alleviate that anger and making some good progress I think, though it still pops up now and then. She never asks me about my whereabouts or day anymore though, so no problem there. Using my GAL activities to take my mind off things and not offering up details to W on what they are.

Thanks to you all for the confirmation that I'm on the right path. Patience seems to be key and will just keep focusing on D and myself.

Yesterday was another GAL activity. Took my work team out for bowling from 4:30 to 10:30. Highly competitive people so we had a pretty intense and fun time, though we found out none of us are great at bowling. Tried calling D via Ws cell phone multiple times before bed. W never picked up, but sent me a text saying "D doesn't feel like talking right now". I just responded back w/ "Ok, tell her I love her and I said goodnight. Thank you." Irked me, but was really the only black mark on an otherwise awesome evening.

On a sidenote, my windshield got cracked by a rock on the way to the bowling alley. I was surprised by my response, which was just a laugh about everything that's going on and how ridiculous the negative stuff has been. Made me realize I'm starting to shrug off the situation somewhat. I'm feeling more resilient as of late. Not fully detached, but not fully attached like I have been. Getting there.

Appreciate all your thoughts and comments. You all have been awesome and I truly appreciate it.

[lt0402]

ha, ok, so just had my longest interaction with W in a week or so. It was via email and then her hitting me w/ a text msg.

I got an email from the rental company about our upcoming beach trip in August. I forwarded it to W bc it had details about check in, etc that it seemed like we should both have. Backstory is my parents have a house near the beach and we've stayed there the day before our trip to cut out all the traffic. Those stays have typically been disasters bc my W and parents don't get along and W feels like my parents ignore my D (which I've noticed they have a tendency to do for some reason).

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Email went like this:

Me: Here are the details about our trip. We should chat on when we want to get down there. I'm off Friday if we want to go down early.

W: After the way your mom treated D and I last year there is 0 chance I'm staying with them.

Me: (attempting to validate) I can understand why you'd be upset about staying there again after last year. maybe we could find something to do Friday that's on the way, stay there overnight, and get up early Saturday to miss the traffic.

Then a large text msg comes across.

W: I ready your email. Last year you promised the same thing, remember? Then D and I woke up to a text that you were out w/ your dad and you left us w/ your mom for a LONG time. We spent the whole day there. And most of the day before. I am NOT sleeping in a house with <parents dog> and then having your mom b%tch at D for being scared of dog being in her face and jumping all over her. D shouldn't be punished for being scared of dog, she is a CHILD. I am NOT staying with your mom after the way she treats OUR D. If you're going to keep letting it happen time after time, even though you keep promising not to, you get no more chances. Sorry.

W: If you want to spend time with them you can whenever you want. Your mom treats D like crap and always has. Not my problem anymore.

Me: (attempting to validate) Your'e right. I totally understand how frustrating staying at my parents beach house has been for you and D. I'm sorry for the part I played in it and I can see how it's made you angry.

I think I didn't do a good job of writing my earlier email. what I meant was that we find something that's on the way down there that we can do Friday. after that, we find somewhere to stay close to there, not my parents, so we can get up to the beach before all the traffic.

Rereading what I wrote I can see how the thought of staying w/ my folks would upset you. Not my intention and I'm sorry.

W: Please stop talking like you're reading a therapist book. it's not helping.

W: It's phony and aggravating.

Me: It's how I feel. Looking back on things, I get where your anger is coming from. I just want you to know that I get it and am sorry for it.

I want her to have a good beach trip and if we can get there without the traffic hassle it's less stress on all of us. I don't want us to stay at my parents house bc that stress is worse on us than the traffic.

I'm thinking there's got to be another good option. I'm just not sure what it might be yet.

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So I post all that because I'm not sure if I should have approached that any differently. sure doesn't seem like it had a great outcome, so I'm assuming I'm doing something wrong.

It does highlight some of my failings of not being there for W w/ regards to issues b/t her and my family. I've worked to be more on her side for the past 5-6 years or so, but had spent the first few years of our M not trying to rock the boat w/ my family and her.

What my W chooses not to see here is that it was her idea to spend 1.5 days at my parents last year bc she didn't want to get stuck in the traffic late on Saturday and she chose to stay an extra day to miss it. Selective memory I guess.

Anyways, I'm open to feedback on how better to handle this type of stuff. These conversations continue to trip me up and any validating I'm doing must be coming off as fake for her to lob out the therapist comment she did.

[doodler]

It0402,

One thing that shouts at me is that you're in full-on pursuit mode. I think if I were your wife I'd be feeling smothered with more of the same old thing from It0402.

[lt0402]

got it doodler. is it because of the length of the responses, the content, or something else?

definitely not meaning to be in pursuit mode. that's absolutely the last thing I want. honestly, the thought of actively pursuing her makes me feel somewhat sick right now. I wonder w/ the lack of communication bt us if I didn't just dump a bunch of stuff on her after seeing the opening from her initial email.

am I correct in assuming this was better handled in conversation face to face so I could just cut it off? maybe say something like "we need to figure out when we're going to the beach. maybe we do x on Friday and stay at y so we can get there early." then left it at that?

the reason I say the thought of pursuing her makes me somewhat sick is I think I'm starting to get mixed emotions about her and this situation. one part of me wants to believe that the W I married is still there, but the other wants to severely dislike this version of my W for what she's doing. I purely want to validate, which is a 180 for me compared to past behavior (ie not listening), to see if that previous version of W could reappear. If the new version of W is here to stay, there's nothing that can be done to fix this.

Regardless, working on myself and D while I stumble through this validation stuff. Maybe less is more here and that's the issue. curious to get your feedback on that doodler if you have the time. Thanks bud!