Deadline for Decision 8/15

[Chippie]

Zeus and Job, my assessment is that he lies between what you’re each saying. I’m not in fear of physical danger – the one time that happened I really taunted him and that is not at all typical of me.
He’s sensitive and quick to anger and snaps at the kids, yells too and is also extremely dedicated and engaged with them. He spends a lot of time with them.
Job, There has been a consistent ebb and flow of irritation, static, snapping at me, double standards, over-reaction to my part in our issues… combined with wonderful adventures, film festivals, travel around the world, meeting interesting successful people, many nights cuddling as a family of four watching movies together… today we are going biking, tomorrow, tubing…
Yesterday for the umpteenth time he asked me “how can I ever forgive you for calling the police? For putting my life at risk… by possibly getting me put in a mental institution or shot dead” (I called them because he separated me from my children, kicked me out, was mildly physically abusive for the first and only time by breaking a door, throwing water at me, throwing me computer across the room to me and a light swat to the head) His sister has hated him for much of her life and calls him a sociopath. He’s been fired, social services came because someone reported him cursing the children in the background and heard someone say “ow”. I wasn’t home. He’s been arrested a few times.
I enjoy so much of our lives together but I’ve lost respect for him for treating me this way and I’ve lost respect for myself for staying, living in fear of not doing so well on my own.
He was sexually abused as a child and is a sober alcoholic.
I go to Alanon so I understand all about keeping the focus on myself and yet OLD HABITS DIE HARD!
I have a part in all of this as well. I’m sometimes passive aggressiveness, I’m insecure, I have ADD so I’m impulsive and forgetful and put my foot in my mouth a lot.
This a wonderful the way my post is divided between focusing on him and focusing on myself.
What I’m wondering is how to handle myself when he is really baiting me and engaging with me.
Yesterday he wanted to talk about the relationship and I listened and used the stock phrases provided here “I can see how you might feel that way” “let me think about that”… but the blaming and shaming is relentless and he has to draw upon the same incident over and over again – that I called the police. He’s obsessive compulsive so I hear this over and over again “How will you fix this? I don’t think you can” I can focus on myself but I don’t know what to do when he’s dumping on me and this happens a lot. He doesn’t want to go to couples therapy and says that we can discuss things on our own. I told him we don’t have the skills to do that.
When I’m calm and rational in response to his accusations he is better than when I flip out of course but he still alters reality to fit his fears and his supposition. He’ll say I’m wrong. I say “I see things differently” I have a different take on things.
And on a positive note, it will be great to spend more time doing art instead of obsessing about him and essentially blaming him for my not doing art. It’s a great practice opportunity for my next relationship or our relationship if things turn around.
OK we are celebrating a delayed fathers day … finished a wonderful bike ride and we’re going to finish a movie from the other day and then go to a drive-in with the kids. A very nice day. Oh and earlier he glued my bed back together which took him a very long time and was unpleasant work.
Very different days from one day to the next.
I’m off to join them now… more soon.

[Cadet]

Threads are now merged together, like Job said stick to one thread from now on until you get to 100 posts.

I agree with Jobs assessment and will reiterate that people in crisis can sometime exhibit other personality disorders which can make diagnosis extremely difficult.
Keep focusing on yourself as you can not fix him as you did not break him.

[RosaLinda]

Yesterday for the umpteenth time he asked me “how can I ever forgive you for calling the police? For putting my life at risk… by possibly getting me put in a mental institution or shot dead” (I called them because he separated me from my children, kicked me out, was mildly physically abusive for the first and only time by breaking a door, throwing water at me, throwing me computer across the room to me and a light swat to the head) His sister has hated him for much of her life and calls him a sociopath. He’s been fired, social services came because someone reported him cursing the children in the background and heard someone say “ow”. I wasn’t home. He’s been arrested a few times.

Hey Chippie, hi, nice to meet you. I am not a veteran at all, just old , but think maybe your husband might be going thru a midlife crisis or as Job suggested, might have a narcissistic personality disorder. The two share a lot of traits, like being critical, self-absorbed liars, but I know of two husbands with true full-blown NPD (ex-husbands at this point) of women I've met on this forum, and they are both cruel, negative, scary dudes who lack a conscience and think the world revolves around them, and who like to give the appearance of being wonderful fathers and men, who had been abused and deserted by the wives they actually emotionally and physically abused for so long.

Please please be careful.

What I’m wondering is how to handle myself when he is really baiting me and engaging with me.

Yesterday he wanted to talk about the relationship and I listened and used the stock phrases provided here “I can see how you might feel that way” “let me think about that”… but the blaming and shaming is relentless and he has to draw upon the same incident over and over again – that I called the police. He’s obsessive compulsive so I hear this over and over again “How will you fix this? I don’t think you can”

I can focus on myself but I don’t know what to do when he’s dumping on me and this happens a lot.

Those phrases are great for validating his statements. I also told my own ex "I'm sorry you feel like that" a lot; it deflected a lot of his nastiness. And after a couple of years (I'm a slow learner LOL) finally started walking away when I'd had enough of him. You can try that when he is dumping on you. Tell him something like "I'm sorry you feel like that but I am not going to stand here and listen to you blame and shame me" and leave the room. Do NOT leave the house.

And on a positive note, it will be great to spend more time doing art instead of obsessing about him and essentially blaming him for my not doing art. It’s a great practice opportunity for my next relationship or our relationship if things turn around.

Anything that will keep you from obsessing about him and having fun is a great GAL (get a life) activity. Go do some art!

Also, in addition to Job's advice about sticking to one thread, you might want to make your own thread a "watched topic." That way, you will get an email when someone posts on it. In the top heading, click on "topic options" then "add topic to your watched topics."

Hang in there!

[Chippie]

RosaLinda,
Thank you.

Why did you say "Do NOT leave the house?"

and the other thing is that I can't say "Sorry you feel that way..." because it's a flag of insincerity for him. Instead I have to say things like "I'm disappointed you feel that way..." a linguistic mind field.

We do a lot of family activities together. Is that OK? We went to a potluck and I made an effort to always find other people to chat with and never go stand next to him and let him come stand next to me. I didn't leave immediately but after awhile I would go and talk to someone else.

I'm trying to find activities in any room other than the one he's in. This is hard since he basically camps out with his computer at the kitchen table. I have to spend some time in the kitchen. Tonight as a family we went to a drive-in movie. We each had one child to cuddle with. Today was a rather superb day - but this was never the issue - having a great day, the issue is consistency and overall calm rather than so many highs and lows and such frequent changeover.

[job]

I think what RosaLinda meant when she said "do NOT leave the house" is that you do not move out. You can move into another bedroom, i.e., not share the space w/him, but you do not move out. Why? Because it can be seen as abandonment in the eyes of the court in some states. Don't give him that advantage. The only time you move out is if he gets physical and you feel that you and your children are in physical danger from him...but also be sure to call the police and advise them of the situation as well.

[RosaLinda]

Oh I'm sorry Chippie, yes Job is right. I meant not to move out of your house again. It's a mistake lots of LBSs make, but with potential dire legal and emotional consequences.

Actually that whole scenario perplexes me! You got a new place and moved out, and then your H moved into your new place? What happened to your original home, that you shared?

I'm also sorry that you cannot say you're sorry because he thinks that indicates insincerity. LOL Is he eastern European? One of my ex's OW was Lithuanian, and was always accusing me of insincerity if I said I was sorry about something or even asked about her health. Why I cared I really cannot say.

Sure it's okay to do stuff as a family. My DB coach told me to be pleasant when my ex spoke to me, but not to pursue him or pester him or initiate conversations about our relationship.

And to take a good long hard look at myself and change the things that need fixing. And to forgive myself for the things I'd done that contributed to the demise of my marriage, and to resolve to be and do better.

What kind of art do you do? Is it related to your job?

[Chippie]

OK So he kicked me out one night and I wasn't in danger (out of the house) but he wouldn't let me take the kids so I called the police. I'm not sure that I was wrong to do that. But I have told him now that I'm sorry that I called them. I guess my reaction was extreme? I really don't know.

Our lease ended at the last place and since he kept breaking up with me repeatedly (never stating we were back together again but then breaking up again) so that it's hard to believe him now. At that time I thought we were done done so I found my own place then told him that he could stay with me while looking for his own place but I guess since he initiated the break up he just without telling me was not broken up and now we're all here in the new place. He keeps saying he's not sure and will decide by 8/15. He randomly chose that date. We now have separate rooms. I will be careful about not leaving the house. We are co-existing now and not arguing much since we're mostly not discussing issues. I can say "sorry" just not "sorry you feel that way" because then it can be seen that I'M not sorry about MY actions just sorry HE feels the way he does.

I do photography and painting and collages on wood. It's not related to work.

Me 48, him 50
M 13 y
daughter 10 & 11
separate rooms since April
Called police in Feb

[Cadet]

Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.

[Coconut]

Chippie, I'll leave the advice to the vets, I don't feel I have the knowledge to offer any.

However, I want to address him constantly reverting back negatively to you calling the police. It makes me think that he is trying to make you think that calling the police to protect yourself is the wrong thing to do. Positive reinforcement is the way to show kids, or train dogs, to do the right thing. I think he is doing the opposite and trying to train you not to get the police involved, because they interfere with his being able to control the situation.

Don't allow him to sway what you know is the right thing to do.

[Zues126]

Regarding the resentment about the police call...I've seen this pattern a lot. It reminds me of juju's WAH who was angry at her for getting the courts involved to get child support. Whether these actions were necessary or not isn't really the point. It's not hard to understand his point of view. It ties in to the card game from my first post.

It's 2016. What are some of the worst things people can say about a man? He's abusive, I'm not safe around him, he's a deadbeat dad...those words paint the picture of a guy straight out of the 50's wearing a wife beater, drinking too much beer, insulting his wife and bullying her around, and ignoring the kids. These days that's considered not just a deal breaker, but a deal breaker that leaves the woman talking to her friends about what a jerk her guy was, and setting him up to be the villain in her personal narrative, where the next guy that jumps in gets to be the white knight, the good guy who isn't like that. So when he sees you talking about him like you think he's abusive or a deadbeat, that is going to provoke a reaction.

XW did this to me. She called me abusive, said she was walking on eggshells, that she couldn't be herself when I was around. She couldn't feel safe. And much more. I was nothing like the guy in the description above. I certainly never laid hands on her, I've never been abused or abusive. But I know. "Not all abuse is physical". These days any time a woman is in emotional pain the husband is thought to be abusive. I don't know, I spent three years in a soul torturing painful sexless marriage, that's not abuse, in fact it always comes back to "she had a reason, probably because YOU were a bad husband..."

Yes, there is abuse out there, it is extremely serious, and I'm not dismissing that. What I was though was more of the "Nice guy" type. If you look at the forum here you'll see that applies to like 90% of guys. It's because for decades we've been saying the guy from the 50's is a monster, so we're all trying to be the opposite. Sensitive, thoughtful, respectful, anything you say dear. All with the expectation that the wife will reciprocate, appreciate him for not being a 'bad guy', and that she'll meet his needs. When this doesn't happen he becomes hurt, then resentful, and often passive aggressive. What the husband wants more than anything else is for the wife to love and respect him, and to meet his needs. His behavior, be it guilting, punishing, avoiding, different forms of control, is often a desperation attempt to communicate what he needs from her. But instead of her saying "oh, love of my life, I can see you were in great pain because I wasn't doing xxxxx and you need that from me", she says "you are abusive, I don't feel safe with you, you need to leave!"

So calling the cops, getting the courts involved, all of these things...it is the most grievous character attack that can be made on a man, coming from the person who's viewpoint he cares about the most. I think it's a good thing he is so upset about the cops, that means he cares what you think. What I'm guessing he wants to hear is something along the lines of "H, you're a good guy. There are a lot of bad guys out there, you've always made sure to take care of me and the kids, and I was lucky to find you. I was upset when you did a/b/c, but in retrospect I can see that was a reaction to something else, and that you were really wounded by x/y/z and simply doing everything you could to communicate that to me. I'm sorry that x/y/z ever hurt you that much, and that instead of hearing you I blamed you and your reaction."

Maybe you can't say that. Maybe he is an abusive dangerous animal. Maybe you can't provide x/y/z, or he's unreasonable for expecting it, maybe he's carrying open wounds and no matter what you do he is in pain and blaming you. I can't speak to any of that. But the bottom line is this. Validate both that he's a good guy, and the wounds you inflicted that he feels drove him to behave this way. Do that and he'll follow you around like a puppy dog.

What would he say drove him to that escalated state? Why did he feel he had to raise his voice? What weren't you hearing?

***REMINDER, I'm not suggesting that abuse is the victim's fault. Somewhere there's a line between abuse and normal pain/anger. If it's abuse, it's abuse, and you at some point walk away and protect yourself. Only thing is that you can't save a marriage if that's your call. So while we don't want to rug sweep or be in harm's way, we also don't want to jump the gun on that label when this dynamic plays out in many normal relationships.