My husband keeps breaking up with me. Basically now he's saying that he is most likely leaving unless I change and somehow he feels positively towards me. The date is 8/15.
I can follow the 180 suggestions but it's slightly different since he's basically got me on probation since I want it more. (He's the bigger offender than me) so do I act like we're not together? He does act nicer when I do nice things for him though not all the time. BIG URGENT QUESTION: The big pressing issue is he wants me to give our tenants notice on a house that I bought before we were married and then it became joint property. Tomorrow is the day I'd have to do it. How do I respond within the DB guidelines to him forcing me to do something major that I'm not ready to do? I feel really manipulated. The downpayment was an inheritance. Asking him to promise that I get back will anger him and refusing to give them notice will anger him.
We have two kids. I have ADHD and I'm always afraid I'll lose my job and I guess that's part of why I want to stay in the marriage but also I love a lot of things about the man he used to be. Please help!
Me: 48 Him: 50 Trying to focus on me but we have kids and he still wants to do stuff together sometimes.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Hello, I'm new to this and not always sure how to tell when or if I'm in the right place or how to see my messages or how to enable private messages.
So I've been married for 13 years, together for 16. My husband has always been quick to anger and I hold in my response until I react inappropriately but for the most part walk on egg shells fairly often. We have two children in middle school.
He's high critical, always has been. Then last fall he decided his true self was polyamorous though he said he hadn't acted on it. I know he tried to hook up with a gal at least once but was turned down.
Additionally he takes testosterone due to low levels, has pituitary issues and was taking antidepressants. So I wondered in the poly stuff was related to hormonal or medication--- I said I can't do the polyamory thing. He was pissed at my "possessiveness" and "tearing apart the family" over it. Then one night we fought so much that it got out of control, he broke a door and kicked me out, I called the police and they asked him to leave.
I wanted to be with my kids. At this point one would say "Why would you two want to stay together" I don't know - we have lots of wonderful experiences and adventures and have much in common as well and of course the children... I really don't know... but anyway, now he won't forgive me about the police and refuses to discuss any part he may have in what happened - now he says he's not polyamorous... he became so unpleasant that I found another place to live and then told him he could stay with us until he found another place to live.
Then he somehow turned it around into a power struggle where he's waiting for me to prove to me that he can trust me again - he never says how, only that he doesn't see that how that's possible... and that everyone says he should leave me and not put up with me (he's been arrested, fired, had social services called on him - AND thanked in a top psych best selling author's book, and is successful... and I'm generally a people pleaser, creative and spacey...
I have trouble rising in business though I'm generally quite likable, bubbly and outgoing) all that is to say I'm not the main offender in the relationship - I have my part of course... he's narcissistic I believe... anyway, he moved into the new place and built a fence (like he's staying awhile) and he keeps telling me that I need to change though he knows I won't. And we are now in separate rooms, not intimate, he doesn't wear a ring anymore and he no longer takes me on dates, and did not want to "celebrate" our anniversary a few days ago. He DOES want to do lots of family activities and extend this purgatory I guess. He keeps saying he will make a decision by 8/15. I get very confused about what do I want ... so since he leaves this narrow window of a possibility open I'm not sure if the 180 fully applies though it seems like it does.
He does respond favorably to nice things being done for him and tallies when things aren't nice though he no longer gives me gifts for special events (mothers day, birthday, anniversary) I think he just like holding this power over me and projecting the pain and anger on to me. He's constantly dumping negativity on to me and then telling me he doesn't want to be around my negativity and he's grown and I haven't.
It's gas-lighting. And as I write this I feel embarrassed that I would hope for a whole life made of the golden moments we've had. So I think I need to avoid him as much as possible without making it seem punitive or deliberate. We'll still go to things as a family but maybe when he comes into a room I'll find something to do in another room and not start conversations or try to please him... all the things that tell him he has power over me. What do you all think?
Last edited by Cadet; 07/03/1603:35 AM. Reason: Carriage returns for readability
Sorry you're here. This is about as hard as life gets. We have a great community and I'm confident you'll meet some good friends and people that can support and guide you through.
More comments below, but I'll quote your post and highlight what stood out. I put words in which you negatively discuss WAH's behavior in red, words in which you talk about behavior that lead to this in blue.
Quote:
Hello, I'm new to this and not always sure how to tell when or if I'm in the right place or how to see my messages or how to enable private messages.
So I've been married for 13 years, together for 16. My husband has always been quick to anger and I hold in my response until I react inappropriatelybut for the most part walk on egg shells fairly often. We have two children in middle school.
He's high critical, always has been. Then last fall he decided his true self was polyamorous though he said he hadn't acted on it. I know he tried to hook up with a gal at least once but was turned down.
Additionally he takes testosterone due to low levels, has pituitary issues and was taking antidepressants. So I wondered in the poly stuff was related to hormonal or medication--- I said I can't do the polyamory thing. He was pissed at my "possessiveness" and "tearing apart the family" over it. Then one night we fought so much that it got out of control, he broke a door and kicked me out, I called the police and they asked him to leave.
I wanted to be with my kids. At this point one would say "Why would you two want to stay together" I don't know - we have lots of wonderful experiences and adventures and have much in common as well and of course the children... I really don't know... but anyway, now he won't forgive me about the police and refuses to discuss any part he may have in what happened - now he says he's not polyamorous... he became so unpleasant that I found another place to live and then told him he could stay with us until he found another place to live.
Then he somehow turned it around into a power struggle where he's waiting for me to prove to me that he can trust me again - he never says how, only that he doesn't see that how that's possible... and that everyone says he should leave me and not put up with me (he's been arrested, fired, had social services called on him - AND thanked in a top psych best selling author's book, and is successful... and I'm generally a people pleaser, creative and spacey...
I have trouble rising in business though I'm generally quite likable, bubbly and outgoing) all that is to say I'm not the main offender in the relationship - I have my part of course... he's narcissistic I believe... anyway, he moved into the new place and built a fence (like he's staying awhile) and he keeps telling me that I need to change though he knows I won't. And we are now in separate rooms, not intimate, he doesn't wear a ring anymore and he no longer takes me on dates, and did not want to "celebrate" our anniversary a few days ago. He DOES want to do lots of family activities and extend this purgatory I guess. He keeps saying he will make a decision by 8/15. I get very confused about what do I want ... so since he leaves this narrow window of a possibility open I'm not sure if the 180 fully applies though it seems like it does.
He does respond favorably to nice things being done for him and tallies when things aren't nice though he no longer gives me gifts for special events (mothers day, birthday, anniversary) I think he just like holding this power over me and projecting the pain and anger on to me. He's constantly dumping negativity on to me and then telling me he doesn't want to be around my negativity and he's grown and I haven't.
It's gas-lighting. And as I write this I feel embarrassed that I would hope for a whole life made of the golden moments we've had. So I think I need to avoid him as much as possible without making it seem punitive or deliberate. We'll still go to things as a family but maybe when he comes into a room I'll find something to do in another room and not start conversations or try to please him... all the things that tell him he has power over me. What do you all think?
It's clear that in your mind you are a good person, and he has mental problems that is causing the issues. I don't know either of you so I'm not playing judge. But here's the thing. If this is true, then there isn't much you can do. Because you can't change him. If he is possessed by demons there isn't anything you can do to change the situation.
The bigger part that you've played in the breakdown of your marriage, the better your chances are of being able to make changes that could save your marriage.
My XW asked me to leave 2 years ago, filed D, and hasn't looked back. She told herself a story about me that would be just as red. It's too bad she didn't realize that every marriage is horrible during bad times, and there isn't a married person on this planet that couldn't build a case to a jury of friends and family about how wronged they were.
We often ask questions like "what was your role in this" and focus there, or "what would H's story be if her posted on a forum?" (odds are it would be equally weighted the other way! right or wrong...)
There is an old post I wrote for a former poster named Pyrite. I tried to explain to him as best I could how the behavior he was seeing wasn't reflective of who his partner was, and the role he played. It's a long one but please read it and let me know your thoughts.
PS- I don't believe that anyone is ever excused for causing pain. Everyone has their own decisions to make on how they choose to behave. I'm not suggesting you're to blame for him mistreating you. But the theme of DB is finding ways to change the dynamic of the marriage by changing your part of the dance. Keep posting and hang in.
****This is the card game I put together for my old buddy Pyrite:
There were two people, you and your W. Let's pretend there's a game being played. You have 10 cards you can choose from, A low, 10 high. Each time either of you interact with each other you have to decide to play a card symbolizing how you treat each other. A 10 means you choose to be extremely loving, selfless, generous, noble, and operate from your highest spiritual self. A 5 means you're having an average day, you're on auto pilot, you may do some things for your mate but aren't really engaged. A 3 is negative, critical, impatient. Below that is the red zone where it becomes destructive, controlling, and potentially abusive.
In the beginning each of you plays a 10 card. You both feel good about the love you're feeling, and feel good about the love you're getting. Somehow that's hard to maintain with life getting in the way. Eventually you notice the cards she's playing are 5s and 6s. This is frustrating. You came to really like 10s. In fact, when she was playing 10 cards you felt really good. When she plays 5s and 6s you feel dissatisfied. You get frustrated that she won't play the 10s like she used to.
Disappointment leads to frustration. Frustration leads to hurt. Hurt leads to anger. Anger that isn't addressed builds into resentment. Next thing you know, you don't feel loving. You don't feel like playing 10s much either. In fact, you start to resent even having to play 5s and 6s yourself. It's not fair! Why should she get everything she wants and needs and for her to neglect you with a series of 5s? You can't be happy with 5s, and you would be with 10s, so really it's her failure to do her job that is the cause for your unhappiness. You start to play lower and lower cards. Partly because you are so resentful you can't stand the thought of giving her what she wants while you're not getting what you want. Partly to try to "get her attention", or show her that something is wrong. And partly because you just don't have the loving feelings that generate bigger loving numbers.
You NEED big numbers to be happy. She's failing. You must force her to play bigger numbers. There's only one strategy left. Time to play some 2s and A's. Put the hammer down. Make it clear this is unacceptable. Either you give me what I want and deserve or I will make things absolutely unbearable. Verbal abuse. Withholding affection. Critical comments. Bullying. Whatever.
***OK, STOP THE GAME A MINUTE***
I described how it felt to play this game. If someone asked "what type of guy are you, are you the kind of guy that plays A's or 10's or what?", you'd respond "I'm a GREAT guy, I'll play 10s or at least pretty big cards most of the time". If someone asked "why did you play so many A's and 2's the last couple of years? That looked borderline abusive", you'd reply "WHOA! That's NOT ME. That's not who I am! I only played those cards because SHE left me no choice! She was playing 3's and 4's and not loving me the way I need to be loved! If she had done HER JOB right I would've been HAPPY to respond with 7s, 9s, and a 10 now and then!"
So the whole issue in your mind was the way she treated you, and how it caused you to respond. You don't identify with you behavior because you see it as a reflection of her failure.
BUT THERE ARE SOME TRUTHS -YOU ARE THE CARDS YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY. If you play A's and 2's, you are abusive. Doesn't matter why. If you kill someone you're a murderer. If you rob a bank you're a bank robber. And when you choose to treat someone poorly, then you are a BAD H. PERIOD.
-IT'S NOT HER JOB TO PLAY 10S AND MAKE YOU HAPPY. Yes, 10s feel great. It's a nice treat in life to experience. But that's not life. Life isn't a series of sexual adventures, passionate date nights, back rubs, and sharing poetry. Why? I don't know. We build a tolerance to things and quickly expect them and take them for granted. Heck, even if she kept playing 10s they would start to feel like 7s to you quickly as you got used to it. Eventually people get to a level they can maintain (such as 5s through 8s with an occasional 10) and it starts to feel like a disappointment. AND IF YOU USED THE 10S TO MAKE YOURSELF FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOUR LIFE YOU WILL SUDDENLY FEEL DISCONTENT AND FEEL YOUR PARTNER IS TO BLAME. SHE'S NOT. You have to be happy on your own, and take what you get as a bonus.
-ONLY YOU GET TO DECIDE WHAT CARDS YOU PLAY. It doesn't matter if she plays 10s or 1s. *YOU* decide each day what type of person you are, how you want to respond. It's YOUR choice, not hers. She can play a 3 and you can STILL CHOOSE to respond with a 10.
CONCLUSION-
So, the funny part about all of this is that SHE FEELS THE SAME WAY. She thinks you didn't play the cards she needed to feel happy. She excuses all of her poor behavior as the "natural" reaction to being treated so poorly from you. She thinks what you did is far worse. This extends all the way to the "cheating". In her mind she would've never cheated had you not emotionally abused her for years, and it was only because of your actions that she was forced to take refuge in someone else to preserve herself. Then she remembered what a 10 felt like and decided that you were just an Ahole that played 1s-3s, and she can't have that in her life, and she found someone that plays 10s, so see ya later.
Now you're not playing the game anymore. There's no more interaction. SO YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH THE DIFFICULTY OF BEING DISAPPOINTED OR RESENTFUL. You start to find it easier to act like a fine and upstanding citizen. This further proves to you that it must've been her driving you crazy. WRONG. It's easier to conduct yourself well on your own. You're not better! If you were in a relationship again tomorrow you'd be back on the downward spiral again, and you'd be dropping 2's and A's on people in a controlling way until they left you as well. Why? Because you haven't learned another way yet!
For you to judge her on the cards she was playing and excuse your cards because they were the only possible reaction is not going to get you anywhere.
Step one is acknowledging the truths above, taking ownership for your behavior REGARDLESS of the context, and deciding what type of man you want to be. Step two is forgiving her for the cards she's played because now you see how she's done nothing you haven't also done. Step three is learning how to take responsibility for your own happiness so you don't resent your future partner for not being able to chemically maintain euphoria in your life. And step four is learning coping mechanisms so that you are able to maintain responses between 5-10 even when you feel hurt, threatened, or rejected.
When you reach that point where you can be truly ok without a woman's love to make you feel ok, then you can be free to choose to respond lovingly much more often. Oh, and that cheater that just dumped you? Maybe if you had the strength before to treat her differently she would've responded differently. That's the whole DB/DR idea- control your half of the dance and you'd be surprised at what you see in exchange. Of course, it will never be all 10s, that's why you have to grow a bit first. And if you do, people will take notice and you'll be ready for a truly successful M. Who knows...maybe she'll even notice...maybe she'll learn these things on her own after her fling dies down...you can't control that, but if YOU can't learn it how can you expect her to? I say lead by example and act with the character you wish she was utilizing. Maybe if you become the spiritual leader and walk this path she'll notice, and maybe follow suit. If not, you'll know you did your best to save the M, and more importantly you'll need an M to make you happy LESS, and be prepared to have a happy M MORE.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Chippie, Since you are very new to the forum, I thought I would let you know that you can't enable the private messages. The system has never been activated. Also, stick to one thread at a time in each forum until you receive 100 postings/replies. Cadet may come along later and merge the two threads you have here. The reason for sticking to one thread at a time, it allows the readers to follow your situation and provide advice and when you have more than one thread going, posters do not know which one to post to. Also, one thread at a time is good for you so that you can go back and re-read the advice versus trying to find all of the threads, etc.
So, let's begin...your h has a quick trigger for anger. Can you tell us a bit about his parents and childhood? Has he ever had an issue w/alcohol or drugs? Is he an only child?
I can see why you are walking on eggshells around him. The anger is enough to put you on edge all of the time. He sounds like he's abusive and the only way he thinks that he can keep you in line is to exhibit the anger. If you were to express your opinions/decisions in a civil tone at the time of the incident, how would he react? Does he get angry or does he actually listen to you? Does he say you don't know what you are talking about or does he think you've got some good ideas? How does he interact w/the children? Does he treat them the same way that he does you?
This behavior isn't helping your self esteem one bit. Have you considered seeing an IC about it or talking to someone, i.e., a friend, co-worker, a family member? You are a people pleaser and a fixer and you don't deserve to be treated this way by anyone. You are a human being who deserves to be recognized for her contributions in this world and you have two beautiful children that are witnessing how their father treats their mother. The changes I see that need to be made is that you need to find a way to become stronger, more confident and self-reliant. You need to believe in yourself and know that whether he stays or goes, you are going to be just fine.
Of course, he responds favorably to nice things being done for him. He's expecting you to jump thru hoops for him and when something isn't done the way he thinks it should be or at the snap of his fingers, he marks it on his list of your faults. You need to own only 50% of the breakdown of your marriage and work on this things that need to be repaired. You can't fix him because he doesn't think that there is anything wrong w/him. If he does have the NPD, there's no fixing him and he will continue to make his checklist and punish you each and every time you don't measure up to his expectations.
You need to put some distance between you and try to get stronger and healthier and come to realize that you are the prize and you a wonderful person who does not need to be abused by his anger and his high expectations. Just leave him alone. If he contacts you, be civil, but I will warn you. He will use any method possible to get you back into his game. If he's nice, you can be nice too...but keep those expectations at zero at all times. If he's nasty, just tell him that you are sorry he feels that way and hang up the phone or walk away or find something else to do. You do not need to be his punching bag.
I'm very worried about you. Please be careful. NP's can be dangerous if they think they are losing their victims and they will do whatever it takes to get them back into web until they can locate a new victim.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Job, I defer to your position, experience, and wisdom. Maybe I can learn from you.
Your last post speaks as though it's been established that her husband is narcissistic and abusive. There are certainly narcissists out there. And abuse is unfortunately more common than I wish it were. But what she posted was that he was "quick to anger" and during an incident in which things got out of control he "broke a door".
I broke a door a year ago. My son did something way out of line, he defiantly slammed the door and locked it, I demanded he opened it, he didn't, I threw my shoulder against it and burst it open. If you followed me through my 10 year marriage I probably have 3 incidents like this. Yet my home with my children is peaceful, they feel safe and loved, and if tensions do rise they die down just as quickly and they are not a big deal. I'm not afraid of living in a world where things get tense on occasion.
But XW did what so many do. She labelled me as angry and abusive, diagnosed me with several personality disorders, and looked at my parents and my childhood and knowingly put together how someone as problematic as me could have come around.
There's only one problem. She's a single mother and has lost a great man and the only shot at a lifelong partnership with the father of her children she'll have.
Job, I'm not defending this man. I don't know him, or what he's done. I understand that not all abuse has to be physical. But I didn't get the impression here that her situation was abusive. It seemed to me that they had a really destructive cycle going on. I absolutely agree she shouldn't be in a destructive cycle. But in my mind the entire point of DB was breaking the cycle by changing your own behavior. I always kneejerk when people go down the road of focusing on the spouse's behavior and diagnosing them as the problem spouse. Doesn't mean there aren't destructive situations that trump saving the marriage. I guess I just didn't see the signs of it that would lead you to agree that he's a dangerous narcissist looking for his victim.
I'll close my mouth and listen to others. I want Chippie safe and don't want to cause harm by rugsweeping. I really am interested in hearing more. Thank you.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I do understand where you are coming from and yes, we all have spurts of anger, let loose, get over it and move on. However, my concern is that from what Chippie has described, he could very well be exhibiting some narcissistic behaviors. When people are dealing with a crisis some low level personality disorders can possibly come out. In this case, Chippie even suspects he may be narcissistic...again, it's not been established because he's not seen a professional and most likely doesn't think that there is anything going on w/him. In fact, he doesn't see anything wrong w/being a "controller". This is one of the reasons that I asked about his childhood, etc. I wanted to know if this type of behavior took place in his childhood home, etc. and if it's been ongoing and just got worse over time.
Based on the description of the other things that Chippie's husband has done and continues to do could be considered emotional/mental abuse. The way he keeps the naughty/nice listing and then withholding things from her can fit into the emotional/mental abuse category. She's walking on eggshells around him because she's afraid of the way he's going to react, etc. This is not normal behavior, nor should anyone have to live/walk on eggshells a large majority of the time for fear that you aren't living up to your spouse's expectations and than he/she punishes you for not doing so.
If a person is a true blue narcissistic, and I do mean if, that person could be very vindictive and use any method to punish his "victim" if the "victim" should go against their expectations and/or leave. This is stated over and over again in literature on this type of personality. Again, I want to emphasize, her husband may be demonstrating certain traits of the NPD, if he's in crisis and they may go away once the crisis is over, but that doesn't excuse his behavior nor should she be his punching bag.
I would like to see Chippie get into a support group and/or see an IC to help her better understand how this destructive cycle is affecting her and her children. Also, she may be able to pick up some useful tips on how to better interact w/this man.
I also would like to see what Vanilla has to say about the situation.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I truly want to see Chippie in a healthy and happy relationship that is fulfilling and one that has both partners working together to raise their children to adulthood.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Wow, chippie, you have two very respected veterans here really trying to understand the root cause of these issues and help you. I would suggest that you provide as much detail information as you can, it will help them gain insight and provide you with the best recommendations in moving forward.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
