The Unpleasantness

[rich4j]

QT

Seems your trying to do the right thing with MC. Line up the dates and work on things for your marriage to save it

Seems you have a choice. Get "sober" and don't smoke anymore is one of your choices and the other is to be committed to marriage counseling and making changes for you to be a better person. your W will see that....

[MoveFrwd]

I'll start by saying Im very sorry for the position you find yourself in. I think you are in the right place to save yourself.

-I am making her uncomfortable because I am raising my voice and yelling at her (if anything, I raised my voice but I was yelling at myself for being so stupid ‘Oh my god I can’t believe this is happening’)
-I ‘was standing in the bathroom door’ while i was talking to her. She felt that I might have been blocking her way and she felt threatened. (This is just unbelievable)
-I left my kid alone in the house (again. I am dumb. I made a huge mistake with this)

Here's my concern. You seem to be playing this game of collecting allies to try to say that you are right and your W is wrong. I am reading this like you want us to validate that you are "correct" or "justified" in your actions and that your wife is crazy. What you need to try to remember is that your wife has feelings and that they are not "wrong". If she feels cold, you cant say "no you dont"....that just doesnt make sense.

So if she says "I felt threatened", you cant possibly disagree. Just because you werent trying to be threatening doesnt mean she didnt feel threatened. I can see how she might feel that way; there was a larger, desperate, very loud, ranting person blocking the only exit to the room she was in.

For now, I will leave you with this:
Her perception is her reality.
There is no "right" or "wrong" with regards to feelings.

[qt4x11]

Here's my concern. You seem to be playing this game of collecting allies to try to say that you are right and your W is wrong. I am reading this like you want us to validate that you are "correct" or "justified" in your actions and that your wife is crazy. What you need to try to remember is that your wife has feelings and that they are not "wrong". If she feels cold, you cant say "no you dont"....that just doesnt make sense.

So if she says "I felt threatened", you cant possibly disagree. Just because you werent trying to be threatening doesnt mean she didnt feel threatened. I can see how she might feel that way; there was a larger, desperate, very loud, ranting person blocking the only exit to the room she was in.

For now, I will leave you with this:
Her perception is her reality.
There is no "right" or "wrong" with regards to feelings.

I guess all I can say to this is - I'm just trying to write my story right now. I understand what you are saying - and you have a very valid point. I guess I feel very hurt and scared myself right now, and that I don't have a voice to defend myself - other than writing my story on an internet forum. Certainly it seems like everything else going on, and the court system - is validating 'her perspective', I'm just trying to get my own perspective down somewhere, if only just to get it out of my system, because this is all I can do, and I know myself, and I feel unfairly treated in this situation.

[qt4x11]

June 1-3

The week before our court date, my wife informs my sister in law that she wants to work it out but she doesn’t want to talk to me about our marriage until we’re at a marriage counselor - so I need to make an appointment with a counselor asap. I make an appointment, and I tell my sister in law and brother to tell her. My wife then goes to visit her family for the weekend. When she comes back she seems to change her mind, she txts my brother that she won’t be able to go to counseling. On June 2 I go to our hearing at family court. My lawyer is there. I tell my lawyer - I don’t think my wife is here yet. My lawyer says - she is here. I say - how do you know. She says - because I have talked to her lawyer. My lawyer tells me - the good news is, she is vacating the temporary court order of protection so that case will be dropped. But the bad news is - my wife is planning to file for divorce. My heart drops. Our two lawyer go into a room to iron out a ‘temporary visitation agreement’ - basically the terms by which we will communicate and visit the kids in this temporary period until a petition of divorce is filed. I could not be lower. While our lawyers are talking, I see her on the other side of the hall way. I say to her ‘Hi why????’ That’s all I could think of to say, it was so quick. She looks at me then buries her face in her hands - then her lawyer appears out of nowhere and takes her away. I am not able to say anything to her the rest of the day.

Eventually the lawyers come out of the room and I agree and sign a ‘temporary visitation agreement’. It is a 3 page document full of legal jargon describing the terms by which we will communicate and visit the kids during this temporary period until a divorce is filed. The main points of this agreement are

-the agreement is in place until we decide to lift it
-my wife gets exclusive access to our house, basically I will continue to sleep on my brothers couch
-I get to see my kids - Wed and Thurs days every week, and Friday through Monday morning every other week
-I get to take the kids to school every morning
-All communication should be only about logistics concerning the kids - so basically *my hands are tied*, I am not able to talk to her about what is going on with us, or else I will be violating this agreement (I don’t know what that means, I don’t think I can get in legal trouble but certainly it will not help me right now to be pressing for marriage counseling)
-My wife gets to take my kids to visit her family out of state last week of the month
-I get to take my kids on a vacation to Cancun the first week of the next month


I try to get them to include attending marriage counseling in the agreement - but it is shot down (‘the court can’t mandate someone attend counseling’ - oh but they can specify the type of communication we are to use in *text messages*???) Anyway, I feel I am railroaded into this agreement. And now - I am still sleeping on my brother’s couch. I *still* cannot talk to my wife about what is going on in our marriage, or I’ll be violating this ‘agreement’. But now I can see my kids again, part of the time. I am utterly heartbroken, I feel helpless. I feel like my life is falling apart around me and I can’t even do or say even one word about it. I have to see my kids for the first time on June 4 - on one hand I will be so happy to see them. On the other hand I know that part of me will feel a deep sadness to see them, because it will remind me that their world is about to change, and how much I love them but I can’t protect them. I don’t even have the words to express to them how sorry I am.

[J5K]

Qt

I am so sorry to hear about the recent news. Hang in there. You will get to spend time with your children. Let the emotions flow through you. I am praying for you to have strength to get through this sitch.

[MoveFrwd]

I guess all I can say to this is - I'm just trying to write my story right now. Thats fair. I was hesitant to jump in, but I wasnt sure how long it would take you to finish your background story, and I thought that these thoughts would be useful regardless of how the rest of the story played/plays out.


I understand what you are saying - and you have a very valid point. I guess I feel very hurt and scared myself right now, and that I don't have a voice to defend myself - other than writing my story on an internet forum. This is also fair. The term "defend myself" is always very difficult to use around here. I've never found that being defensive is a useful strategy. I am certainly interested to hear the rest of your story. While theres nothing to do to change the past, we can change your future.

Certainly it seems like everything else going on, and the court system - is validating 'her perspective', I'm just trying to get my own perspective down somewhere, if only just to get it out of my system, because this is all I can do, Perfect. Sometimes just journaling things to "get them out there" is extremely therapeutic. Nobody is going to judge you, look down on you, or treat you badly here. While the delivery may not always be great, we all have your best interests at heart.

and I know myself, and I feel unfairly treated in this situation. I'm sure that you do. So far, the story sounds very difficult. Im not saying that you WERENT treated unfairly. My only point was that this isnt a war that is "won" by having more supporters. Ultimately, it comes down to the relationship between you and the other person. All you can control is you and how you interact with her. It doesnt really matter how many people or counselors or internet guides you have on your "side".

Keep posting!

[qt4x11]

Qt

I am so sorry to hear about the recent news. Hang in there. You will get to spend time with your children. Let the emotions flow through you. I am praying for you to have strength to get through this sitch.

Thank you Jim. Every day I feel like i get punched in the gut in new and creative ways. Just trying to stay positive is taking everything that I have.

[qt4x11]

These are just random thoughts that I have. I am only writing them down because they are my feelings.

How can someone just walk away from a 10 year marriage with kids - without even bothering to try everything possible to save the marriage?

I feel like she is putting her own pain and anger ahead of the kids’ future, it seems very selfish to me.

For my part, I still feel a huge amount of guilt because I caused this whole situation due to my own selfishness, this feeling of guilt will not go away - even though my brothers and friends are telling me ‘I am doing all the right things and am trying to change so I shouldn’t feel guilty anymore’. I can’t shake these guilty thoughts.

I feel like we are in this situation because of all of the mistakes I’ve made - but I also feel like her reaction to them is unfair. And her reaction is way out of proportion to what actually happened. This is my feeling. Obviously it is not hers. I can’t even express this to her because our communication is now limited.

I am continuing to work on myself - 12 step meetings every day, no lying even about little things (that is my new policy in life). My experience with the first and second steps has helped me to realize how much my addiction has cost me over the years, even before my marriage. All the relationships, jobs and opportunities lost - and this is the worst ever.

I have already spent thousands of dollars on lawyers, therapists, counselors - and now, on DB coaching on this very site. At times I feel like there is no hope, and what I am really spending money on is to have a false sense of hope to get me through this really bad time.

I have to prepare for the worst and be realistic - I have an upcoming meeting with my lawyers. I want to tell them - I can’t just sit around and wait for ’the other shoe to drop’, and I don’t want to just rubber stamp a divorce agreement drafted by her lawyers that is highly favorable to her. I want to work with my lawyers to educate myself, and get ahead of the situation so that I’m in the best position get fair and equal child custody and financial arrangement if this goes south. I have my lawyer meeting Friday about this.

On the other hand - nothing is final yet, although I could have divorce papers on my door tomorrow. And while there is even the tiniest chance - even when the situation seems so bad, and now my family is throwing up their arms and telling me to just accept what is happening. The situation is very delicate - I need to think everything through every thing I do at this time, because if I make a mistake it will affect my family for the rest of our lives. I love my wife and my kids. While I still have time I will do everything I can do, so I will have no regrets. That’s all I can do.

[Coconut]

These are just random thoughts that I have. I am only writing them down because they are my feelings.

How can someone just walk away from a 10 year marriage with kids - without even bothering to try everything possible to save the marriage?

I'm sure she feels like she did everything she could and you just weren't hearing her. Your W was pretty forward in telling you what she didn't like, but you didn't really listen, you kept lying and smoking when you thought she wouldn't know.

I feel like she is putting her own pain and anger ahead of the kids’ future, it seems very selfish to me.

And smoking everyday wasn't selfish?


For my part, I still feel a huge amount of guilt because I caused this whole situation due to my own selfishness, this feeling of guilt will not go away - even though my brothers and friends are telling me ‘I am doing all the right things and am trying to change so I shouldn’t feel guilty anymore’. I can’t shake these guilty thoughts.

Bingo!

I feel like we are in this situation because of all of the mistakes I’ve made - but I also feel like her reaction to them is unfair. And her reaction is way out of proportion to what actually happened. This is my feeling. Obviously it is not hers. I can’t even express this to her because our communication is now limited.

You made your choices, she made hers, you don't get to make her choices for her. Now you made the choice to fix yourself and she will make the choice to come back to you or not. You can only control what you do, your choosing to be a better man, that's a good choice.

I have already spent thousands of dollars on lawyers, therapists, counselors - and now, on DB coaching on this very site. At times I feel like there is no hope, and what I am really spending money on is to have a false sense of hope to get me through this really bad time.

The money is being spent to make you better, wether you get back together or not, you will be a better man, money well spent.

I have to prepare for the worst and be realistic - I have an upcoming meeting with my lawyers. I want to tell them - I can’t just sit around and wait for ’the other shoe to drop’, and I don’t want to just rubber stamp a divorce agreement drafted by her lawyers that is highly favorable to her. I want to work with my lawyers to educate myself, and get ahead of the situation so that I’m in the best position get fair and equal child custody and financial arrangement if this goes south. I have my lawyer meeting Friday about this.

Being prepared is good, filing because you want to beat her to it isn't, I wouldn't file unless you want a D.

[sandi2]

but it is shot down (‘the court can’t mandate someone attend counseling’

Really! Maybe it depends on where you live, IDK. I know couples who were mandated to attend MC. Unless, they were lying about it.

It does seem that the courts still favor the wife in this sort of situation, and we have seen almost identical stories as yours. And, I'll go even further to say.......your W had every bit of it planned out. She was just waiting for you to give her an occasion to call the cops.

How can someone just walk away from a 10 year marriage with kids - without even bothering to try everything possible to save the marriage?

It may all come out later, or you may never know. Whatever her "real" reason is, she does not have any desire to work at saving the M. That is what you must let go of right now. You cannot force anyone to desire something they don't want. You cannot make another person love you. When you accept those two facts, you'll let go of a certain amount of need to control.

I feel like she is putting her own pain and anger ahead of the kids’ future, it seems very selfish to me.

You are probably correct. However, be prepared to "hear" her excuses be all about the kids' sake.

For my part, I still feel a huge amount of guilt because I caused this whole situation due to my own selfishness, this feeling of guilt will not go away

Know who can stop those guilt feelings? You! And only you. You are punishing yourself. I guess I am one of those prudes you mentioned, and I can see why your W was extremely upset over the smoking (if she has completely stopped and changed her ideas about it, too). I just have a little problem believing that EVERYTHING is your fault. Know why? When a woman no longer give the H a chance to talk to her and has no interest in him working to fix the problems.......and/or sees him trying, but she still doesn't care.....I think there is something deeper going on. Plus, when a woman calls the police and practically gives false statements about fearing her H.....I think it was planned out well before it ever happened. I suspect someone else instructed her what to tell the police.

I am continuing to work on myself - 12 step meetings every day, no lying even about little things (that is my new policy in life). My experience with the first and second steps has helped me to realize how much my addiction has cost me over the years, even before my marriage. All the relationships, jobs and opportunities lost - and this is the worst ever.

Good for you!

I have already spent thousands of dollars on lawyers, therapists, counselors - and now, on DB coaching on this very site. At times I feel like there is no hope, and what I am really spending money on is to have a false sense of hope to get me through this really bad time.

Well, sorry you feel that way. Although DB, or nothing else, can guarantee you won't get divorced......it has the best methods to use in giving it your best shot.

I want to work with my lawyers to educate myself, and get ahead of the situation so that I’m in the best position get fair and equal child custody and financial arrangement if this goes south. I have my lawyer meeting Friday about this.

Good, if you don't protect yourself, nobody else will.

Have you ever taken classes about effective communication? Maybe you need to consider it, since you tend to get frustrated and it leading to other means of escape. Learning how to cope......I suppose you discuss in this your counseling?

Hope you'll stick with us.