Well I'm sorry you had to go through that. I tried to give you a heads up. Did you expect to be totally different than every other WW? She would just open up and tell you the truth? You need to decide what you want and stick with it betterm. If you don't your head will keep spinning round and round like you described earlier I want you to know I've been right where you are. The bourbon will help temporarily only:)
M 37 W 30 S 7 Together 10 years Married 9 years BD: 12/12/12(W filed same day) I moved to apartment 1/11/13 W and S moved to MIL 1/11/13 Peicing: 6/3/13 Reconciled: 7/2013 BD2: 4/20/16 still working on it
cbt, thanks. and no, I did not expect anything different from disclosing EA to any other WW, but I'd been carrying that around with me for 2 months and now I feel like it should be 'off my chest' a little bit. I'm not teetering day to day on whether to tell her, how to tell her, etc. It's done. Regardless of her admitting anything other than garbage-talk, my part is done. I can move on to clearer goals than that one, which was only weighing me down. I'm done for the night. You all have a good one.
I've realised that true love is about being selfless, understanding that there is a right action, even if it's the hardest - such as disciplining your child with a spanking.
If true love is selfless, then the opposite is selfish. I am selfish because I do not want to let go of my STBXWW. I love her too much to imagine a future without her. BUT I HAVE TO.
Now being selfless is seeing the woods for the trees, who's toxic in your life and deciding to just drop them. Being selfless is seeing that this is the best decision for you and your child and even though it hurts, you are doing the RIGHT thing.
Hope my context is correct - any of your thoughts?
Just cos things are going right, doesn't mean that they were always wrong.
I've realised that true love is about being selfless, understanding that there is a right action, even if it's the hardest - such as disciplining your child with a spanking.
If true love is selfless, then the opposite is selfish. I am selfish because I do not want to let go of my STBXWW. I love her too much to imagine a future without her. BUT I HAVE TO.
Now being selfless is seeing the woods for the trees, who's toxic in your life and deciding to just drop them. Being selfless is seeing that this is the best decision for you and your child and even though it hurts, you are doing the RIGHT thing.
Hope my context is correct - any of your thoughts?
Well spoken DDJ. I think you're thoughts and verbiage are proper, in that true love and compassion for someone, would mean to accept their decisions with full respect and grace. It's hard for an LBS to understand that for the exact reasons you said. In my mind, "I know I can provide the best future for my spouse", all I need to do is make/get her to understand that our situation is solvable and able to make better...
And I'm not in support of divorce ever (except maybe cases where there has been continuing, chronic issues with the 3 A's), there is true meaning behind the cliche phrase of 'if you love them, let them go.'
It sounds like fear of our selfish outlook on our own future is clouding up what true love is really about, and that's being there for someone, accepting them, and supporting them in any way possible to give them what they need to be authentic in their life. I'm not saying it's always right, and that sometimes people give up too quickly or easily, but you're right. It's the forest for the trees mentality that we typically fail to see through our emotions and fears.
An extremely spiritual, buddhist-mentality-type, close friend of mine who spent a lot of time in the Eastern-culture countries (Japan, Thailand) recently recommended two books to me who's familiar with what we are going through. It's probably not the material that most DBr's on this site are looking for, but I glanced over them and they are next on my list to read, just because I'm looking for ways to see my thoughts/emotions/fears from another perspective... 1. "When Things Fall Apart" by Pema Chodronand 2. "The Storms Can't Hurt the Sky" by Gabriel Cohen
The first is about hard times in life, in general. And the second is a buddhist outlook on divorce specifically. I'm not a Buddhist, and I'm not spiritual in the terms of "God", but I think these will be good reads for helping find that true love and compassion you are talking about in your post.
Selfless people do things for others, regardless of the pain it may cause them. I AM a fan of philosophy, and one of my favorites, Nietzsche, would argue that even the "selfless" actions are carried through by our own selfish identities of ourselves, as that's they way (he) views our mind to work. You know that one guy/gal, who's always boasting about how much charity they do, how much they always go out of their way to help others, that guy/gal is the perfect example of this. A lot of times it's not truly about being compassionate of others, but that inside us, we want others to view us as the compassionate people we like to portray ourselves as.
Selfish people will do wonderful things for others too, and probably more likely to not be the ones to boast about their great deeds to others. But when you factor LOVE into the equation, it becomes very difficult to determine a true 'formula' for what's really better for each person involved.
thank you for posting that, as more 'thoughtful' posts are always taken with great appreciation (for me anyways, not sure about doodler - he may just box up your thoughts and toss them in the yard, ha!). I have some more to say about your post, but meeting someone in 10 minutes.
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As for me, today, even though things went bad yesterday with the EA confrontation, I've found some calmness within me all day long. I haven't had the urges to do the things I've been doing the last few weeks (snoop, text, call, etc), and I've actually had good feelings and thoughts about myself in directions that I haven't found in the past few weeks. I'll be back later tonight for some more. Until then, cheers!
betterm, I actually enjoy thoughtful posts. I also have an affinity for boxes. And, I'm spent.
Haha, Just givin' you a hard time, doodler. You know that's just what we all need around here? a little good 'ole fashion ball bustin' (joe pesci voice).
DDJ - I've been thinking about 'love' and 'compassion' a lot today in my attempts to find a way to relieve some stress, anger, resentment, remorse... (the list goes on), and had a long conversation with my weirdo Buddhist friend (kidding). Your post earlier goes hand in hand with things I've been thinking about. I think that's why I've been able to find some calmness before/during/after the storm.
The truth is, I do love my W like crazy. More than anything I could ever imagine loving again. With no kids, and only "things" to worry about on the legal side, there was a lot of "fear-based" reasons I didn't want the D. As I reflected, those fear-based things became intelligent life-goals I wanted to share and experience with my W. (build safe, foundation to grow farmily, etc), and while I know I could be the one to make her happier than anyone else, if it's something else she has decided to choose in life, I will let her go. I don't want to, it's going to be hard, but as you said 'I have to."
You all have been asking me "what do you want", "what do you care about", etc.... and it's just coming around that it's not just that I want "her back". Because "her back", without significant changes in my life, and hers, will only lead us back to where we are now. I need to chart my path out, and I want to do it with less stress, less anxiety, less contempt.
I was able to not get lured in 3 different times today when my W was trying to stir up trouble. I told her again, 'I'm done fighting, that doesn't mean you can step all over me however you want, but I'm not going to fight back anymore." There was a little more, but you get the point. I'm going to love her through this, regardless of her actions, and regardless of her decision. Hell, I haven't said it out loud yet, but I was even bouncing the idea around of leaving the house for a few days, or a week, and letting her come stay here... not to try and win her back, or anything other than giving her a few days of peace so she can heal a little. I'm not acting on any of this at the moment. It's only been running through my head for half the day. It's just something that sounds like something for me.
My life has turned into a fast-paced, high-stress, business-first, chores-second system. I don't want that for the rest of my future. I know there are a hundred things I can do to fix one, or two, or more of these without making drastic changes, so I'm giving it more thought and going to see what I can come up with.
Well betterm, check out my thread for my latest updates. It is true what you say about selfless also being selfish, at times. My mother always says, never tell people what you have or what you do, people will see it for themselves. Heck, i've always done the opposite.
I think it's about being grounded in who you are and what you stand for. i am finding God, better yet, I think he's finding me. Part of this journey is to give the toxic things to your higher power. You're not truly able to let go if you still hanging on. Counter-intuitive, but then what isn't nowadays.
Like my W used to say, her apple is red, and mine is green - even though its the same apple. Make the most of your apple.
Just cos things are going right, doesn't mean that they were always wrong.
The truth is, I do love my W like crazy. More than anything I could ever imagine loving again. With no kids, and only "things" to worry about on the legal side, there was a lot of "fear-based" reasons I didn't want the D. As I reflected, those fear-based things became intelligent life-goals I wanted to share and experience with my W. (build safe, foundation to grow family, etc), and while I know I could be the one to make her happier than anyone else, if it's something else she has decided to choose in life, I will let her go. I don't want to, it's going to be hard, but as you said 'I have to."
betterm,
I think the quoted paragraph above summarizes the core of the divorce busting mentality. We love our spouses so much that we'd do almost anything to keep them, but that's not what they want given their current mindset. That's what makes a true 180 so difficult; it's unnerving and difficult to do something that is seemingly going to pull you further away from your spouse.
The fear thing (and sometimes stupidity) is the reason that Sandi has to run around the forum doing the whack-a-mole thing. Someone has to wake us up to the fact that cleaning the house and buying gifts isn't going to fix the marriage.
