When the goal is positivity

[JulieH]

Julie,

I am not a good Dber because I've never had to DB. Rather simple really. I never had a chance with Mr Ex. All my DBing has been towards myself and that seems like a crazy notion but all the same true. I guess my approach to being here is that I am good at waving the flag, I am good support. I add a piece here or there when I see someone struggling. But I don't have the courage or bravery it takes to really help someone through this. I don't have the courage to call someone out on their stuff. Stuff I can see getting in the way. I am coward Julie. I have been with you.

I am so sorry for the pain and hardship you had to endure at the end of your relationship with Mr. Ex I am so greatful you came to this site to heal. Your story touched me so much, and I always think Of the beauty and grace and generosity you showed Mr Ex's daughter. Unlike me, you seem to have set the example of what one should aspire to become like spiritually. You do not need these boards or this way of healing for the same reasons I do. But I think and I hope they have and continue to help you. I think perhaps we have to experience pain and suffering in life because it is the only way we grow and truly learn to empathize with others. When I first came on here, a poster (possibly Zelda?) told me that most people on here have a very minimal to nil chance at successfully busting their divorce. That the real purpose of these boards was to heal ourselves. You have a way of saying things that is kind, eloquent, insightful. Your responses are not only well thought out but of so much depth. I believe it was ancaire, who so brilliantly said the statements you write are to be saved and reread multiple times. I couldn't agree more. There is so much depth to what you say. I am greatful. (That being said, I would be open to 2 x 4s because I know they are meant from a good place)

So I am soooooo happy that you have Zues. And now you have found Swiggy.

You have all the bases covered now to DB the sh*t out of this sitch.

I feel like Squiggy will now support you through the more therapuetic steps of this journey with H. I am glad. My gut tells me you are ready.


You are incredibly responsive to men with high emotional intelligence and firm logical arguments Julie. that has been apparent for a long time. You are incredibly open to what they provide you. It seems to me that the way they engage you makes you so open to seeing things differently. It's a quality you are literally begging your H to have everytime you interact with him.

I wonder what it is about H and being in relationship to him that stops your from being so open. Sure there is the intimate nature of the relationship and we always struggle for asking for what we need from someone we are emotionally invested in. But there is something else here for what my opinion is worth.

What is the Zues and Squiggy do that opens you up, that makes you open to being critiqued, that allows you to express yourself with little to no anger. That allows you to communicate from a place I feel, rather than I think. Is it because they lead and you are happy to follow or is it something else they do that makes you feel safe.

You have referenced logical thinking and robust discussion as being innately something you need. Is this what they provide you.

. I am uncomfortable with my previous response, which was not very well thought out or respectful to the many, many brilliant and direct female posters who have helped me and who I wish I could just meet and befriend IRL!

Yes it is true, because I grew up with mostly boys and ( a tomboy mom )I get more intimidated with females So talking to and approaching men is easier for me. But I dont think that's what it's about. I am pretty open to criticism from any gender if it's respectfully discussed or at the very least done with good intention. My husband could not do this with me and I could not do this with him. Maybe because when I interact with my husband there are emotions involved. It is not objective and detached, like on these boards or with my friends. In our case, because there has been so much anger and resentment there is no logic to husbands anger and complaints and stone walling and actions. I feel like I'm on uneven playing ground. At least in my mind I am. I guess I am seeking someone to answer and interpret for him as well?

To note: I think H has the ability to meet this need. And I don't think he is having an affair either. I hope to be proven right.

Julie, I don't have the eloquancy or intellectual nouse to describe what either of these two gorgeous men Zues and Squiggy can. But listen to what they have to say. I have not missed a post on your threads in the last couple of months. There is nothing that either Zues or now Squiggy have said to you in the last 24-48 hours that I haven't been thinking and feeling about your sitch.

You are getting so close to where you need to be. And frankly I know it scares the bejeezes out of you.

yes. I feel so overwhelmed. My vitals are up. I am not sleeping well. My life can go in so many directions at this point and I am not even sure which direction I want it to go in. I see all these little webs of possibilities and positives and negatives of each decision and what ifs and I am just depressed and anxious.

There is also something I do know, you being emotionally vulnerable is going to change everything.

As I always say just because I don't post doesn't mean I don't care or not supporting you. I just think other's are giving you everything you need.


So much love for you Julie.

Jellyxxx

[JulieH]

Grlonfr

Thank you for sharing. What's great about each of us willing to tell our experiences is that others can learn from our mistakes and regrets.

I understand better what you mean about separating out thoughts of reconciliation from working in your own best interests. In the beginning of my situation, husband had told me he hadn't decided on whether he wanted to work for reconciliation. I held off on requesting CS because I was afraid it would affect our chances. Once he told me no reconciliation i filed. I accepted and was mentally moving on. Then he told me yes possible reconciliation. Now limbo again.

Right now husband has to make decision of whether he wants to move forward torwards divorce or move forward torwards reconciliation. If he says divorce, I am not going to engage the possibility of R. Mentally, I can't live like that. It would just extend this limbo period I so detest. I would move forward in any way I had to. My decisions will be made to best meet the needs of the kids. I will not make decisions based on the possibility that my decision and goodwill might make him change his mind about me. With him, it won't work....

In fact, I don't really see the sense in discussing the terms of a divorce settlement unless that is what he wants to do. It makes no sense to me. So I don't know why he even mentioned it.

Now if he says reconciliation is where he wants to move to it is a bit more complicated cause it's essentially still a limbo period. Like you, i will worry that His goal is to set me up in a position that he can gain a better legal advantage in. This mutual suspicion will hinder reconciliation. How could it not? but I have to wait and see what is said.

[JulieH]

Julie

Just to let you know I keep up with your thread, and although I don't post, I read up.


I know you sense us silent beings lurking.

V

Vanilla, thank you always. you helped me so much! I like to lurk on your FOO thread. Great stuff. Quite brilliant actually.

[ARose]

Julie, when you say that H has to make a decision, do you mean that you are asking him for this decision? I am reaching a point where I can't remain in limbo. Not today, not next week, but within a few months I believe I need to get out of limbo. Just wondering what this looks like for you. If you ask, is it an ultimatum? If you ask and he says R, but then continues to act the same way as he is now, then what?

[JulieH]

Hi Fo

Basically I called my husband out on him giving me mixed messages regarding recomciliation. Why? Because I am horrible at divorce busting and have no patience and because my personality does not handle limbo very well.

So we agreed to have discussion in person exploring the pros and cons of each and mapping out a plan. (I would not be willing to map out a plan regarding divorce unless I spoke with attorney. He is obviously afraid of what type of demands I make and understandably wants no surprises).

I am hoping he has a decision as to what he wants to do. I am not going to give ultimatum, but decison can't be endless either. It's not fair to me. I will tell him i am willing to work on reconciliation and I hope he is too, but if he is unable to do so, I will be able to survive.

So the way I will prepare. ( be prepared for my future posts agonizing over this )

1. Pros/ cons of divorce
2. Reconciliation...major question for me is do you make demands? Is it fair for him to demand that I get 2nd job? Jellyb mad brilliant point that reconciliation is typically more about connecting, communicating, and validating. This makes sense to me. The demands sound like a way to control. I find them to be a narrow line between boundaries.
What would reconciliation entail? Date night once a week? Does that become a demand?
3. Find list of counselors
4. I will try not to voice any of my complaints. I have to remember I can't get through to him anyhow. I will just complain here.
5. I will do more listening then anything. ask questions to clarify
6. He mentioned recording and putting things in writing so there is no confusion, and we can go back and listen.

Any other suggestions?

[JulieH]

In the mean time, I am taking online defensive driving course as he is one paying car insurance. He yelled about this the other day, especially since I am the reason the rates are up. He didn't tell me to take this course, but it is the right thing for me to do.

I know it's not the same as landing a second job but I hope he sees the effort.

It's actually easy to take course and write on these forums

[ARose]

Julie, I am watching this with a lot of interest.

I would not make demands. Maybe ask "what would a reconciled marriage look like" to each of you? And work slowly towards reaching those goals. See how that is a more positive statement than "what are our demands?"

Date night. I would not make this a "demand". If H is open to this conversation, I would say "I would like to spend quality time together on a regular basis. What kinds of activities do you think would be enjoyable for us to do without the kids?" And brainstorm together. So its more of a mutual collaboration rather than "I need a date night once a week." Together you might come up with a weekly date night, but it won't be a "demand."

I am really curious to see how this works for you. I think if you can keep things positive and collaborative, this could be a positive thing. Another thing I would suggest is that if you do have this conversation with H, that you don't tackle ALL of your expectations and issues at once. Maybe take it one step at a time.

[JulieH]

Fo
Yes. Great advise. I agree with everything you have said.

I wish I was able to word things like you do. I will reread your post before I go. Those are great suggestions and I will be using them.

Do you have any ideas how to handle it when he says he wants me to take on second job?

This meeting isn't until next weekend. I am worried that he is going to say he never agreed to it or something like that. Ok let me not think like that.

[JellyB]

Julie the reconcilation process is like figuring out the meaning of life.

You may actually miss the point of it because you were focussed on the destination and not the journey.

Reconcilation is process of coming together. Like life it requires an open attitude and heart and curious and enquiring mind, an ability to be in the now and to take the good and leave the bad. Be prepared to be surprised the other person may not have the same thoughts, feelings and beliefs they once had. A beginners mind is required.


FO has given you some great advice. Collaboration with no agenda on a certain outcome.

I guarantee you Julie if you push for answers from H he will give them to you and likely they will catch in your throat.

If explore conversations and curiosities you might well be surprised. I feel that your H is more open than you think.

PS; Read back over your posts and watch how H responds to your emotional tone and energy. You might find a pattern. And more "I feel - It feels good when, it doesn't feel good when, I would like to feel, I don't want to feel " from you. He seems to like it when you are bit more in your heart than your head. Just an observation. I could be wrong!! Other Fo's statements are awesome and impressive!

Jellyxxx

[Painter]

I think you could take some things off the table until you see a counselor. Especially if it is a high-conflict issue, you could say, 'Hey, this is something we have discussed and argued about before, how about we put this in front of the counselor and get help to work through it - both to actually solve it and as an exercise in learning how to communicate better?'

It looks like financials are a hot button issue for both of you. How about meeting with a financial planner/adviser? (I would recommend a CPA or similar, someone who doesn't want to sell you a product.) That way you would ensure that there's no yelling or emotion involved, but rational thought. Also, you would both be looking at unbiased numbers.

I think it is validating if you say to your H, 'I really want to resolve these issues because I understand how important they are to you, and they are to me, too, but I think we need help to figure it out and find a compromise.' However, it also puts the ball back in his court a little when it comes to what he thinks is important.

My IC (formerly our MC until H wouldn't go anymore) just talked about men's and women's communication styles - it's definitely not odd that we need help.