WW, My Addiction, Patience, and HOPE

[Mowgli]

So how Will you respond to this, Trumpet?

She said you can have access, then changes her password? pretty strong action there I would say.

Never Forget Rule #1

You can't reconcile until W goes NC with OM. Even then you have to give it time.

She says she needs time, but how much time are you willing to give?

She's fence sitting again which it sounds like she's pretty good at.

So what's your plan from here on out?

Do you push the issue to get a reaction or do you continue to GAL and do your thing?

Nice truth dart about asking her what she would think, BTW

here's the big thing to remember:

if she wants to continue to contact OM, there is nothing, NOTHING you can do about it. You can only decide how you will respond to it.

Here's what I would do:

don't have that conversation with her. She'll tell you when its over with him.

detach. YOU will not put up with her continuing to play you that way.

keep up the GAL.

detaching and GALing was working for you; do what works.

[sandi2]

As long as she fights transparency and claims you are snooping or spying on her, she's not ready. If she has nothing to hide, she should not have any problem with her H having access to her messages. To me, it's that simple, and until you have her 100% cooperation in the transparency.....she has another person in the M.

When a person is transparent, you aren't spying, right?

[trumpet]

Mowgli,

Thanks.

GAL'ing will be back for me. It never left, but I had been doing a few things to try to show the wife I was committed to reconciliation. I will interact with her a bit more than a full detachment - to show I'm in the relationship, but I'm not going to hang out with her. That was something I was considering - 'hey, let's watch some TV, let's go for a walk, let's go for a coffee'... but I think those things are on hold until I get proof, and consistent proof, that it's over.

[Mowgli]

good! and if she asks "what's up?" you need to be completely honest. You are protecting yourself here and I don't think there's anything wrong with telling her that you can't be fully committed to this if she isn't, either.

She asked for time, why shouldn't you need time as well? The paperwork is still in limbo; it's not like she retracted it or something.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

It's not snooping or spying on her .... it's holding her accountable.

If she doesn't want to be held accountable for her promises and assurances to you - then you're just left presuming she's still having her affair and you have no reason to snoop or spy because you know what you know.

As far as this her moving pictures around and acting like she needs to detach from OM slowly ---- that's kind of like an alcoholic saying he/she needs to just finish out the liquor in the liquor cabinet or hang out in a few bars drinking soda because they miss the camaraderie of the bar before they actually quit drinking.


I feel some of this all comes down to proper "framing". You aren't "pursuing" her when you check up on her and hold her accountable. Instead you are ATTEMPTING to team up with her and solve/work on a JOINT issue. The joint issue is - both of you aren't in love with each other but we have children together and we took forever vows so "WE" need to see if "WE" can make this work before throwing in the towel. As you told her AND the kids the other day ---- "it looks like we are divorcing". I'm not your keeper. The cage door is wide open. Go be with OM and continue making the biggest mistake of your life OR end it with OM once and for all (which you fully understand is a difficult thing to do), and commit to working with you (TOGETHER) to rebuild/build a marriage of extraordinary care.

The reframe the boundaries as a joint boundary around your seedling of a marriage recovery. No contact with OM is the foundation but you can frame that too as the three foundational pillars of initial recovery - honesty/truth/accountability.*

****edit to add - Stumbling through "no contact" is common. It's a mistake for her to have closure contact at all but they sometimes just can't help themselves - it's more important that she shares her stumbles with you - in a timely manner - before you even look for it or find it. You TRY to indicate that when the urge comes upon her to call you instead or some other way to avoid the trigger response but no matter what you won't hate her if she simply tells you immediately and works with you to tie up the "no contact" loose ends even better. Remember too - OM could break "no contact" himself - so she needs to strategize WITH YOU HER ACCOUNTABILITY PARTNER how to handle that appropriately as well.


There is an opportunity here to lead by example. There are websites that you can register with that will monitor your web/internet activity and send your wife an email if you search or visit XXX porn website and material. You could sign up at one of those website to let her hold you accountable. Maybe instead you just put a key logger on your devices and have her set up a passcode you don't know. The power of accountability is NOT that your wife is going to be watching you 24/7. The power is people behave better when they know the are being (or could be) watched and/or their behavior is being recorded.

Accountability is one of the most beneficial (for self and society) roles of marriage. As society bifurcates more and more, there remains less persons for us, as individuals to be accountable to. It used to be you were accountable to your spouse, parents, grandparents and entire extended family as well as your neighbors, church, village and clan. Now people are so disconnected they can do pretty much whatever they want and no one in their extended network ever has to know or find out about it unless they just happen to stumble upon it. I heard some pretty weird and very private stories from families cleaning out the homes after a tragic sudden death of their single 20'-30' something children. It's probably one of the biggest reasons married people outlive single people - someone is holding you accountable for your behavior to some degree.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

Mowgli,

Thanks.

GAL'ing will be back for me. It never left, but I had been doing a few things to try to show the wife I was committed to reconciliation. I will interact with her a bit more than a full detachment - to show I'm in the relationship, but I'm not going to hang out with her. That was something I was considering - 'hey, let's watch some TV, let's go for a walk, let's go for a coffee'... but I think those things are on hold until I get proof, and consistent proof, that it's over.

So it doesn't seem like pursuing and because you aren't absolutely sure of "no contact" yet....instead of being completely detached you might get the opportunity or feel like deploying a little trick I like to suggest in these situations.

Instead of asking her out on a date or anything you simply address it like this:

"The last few months have been super stressful for me and I'm sure you as well. I just need a night out. I need to escape this and just go and have some fun. Before all this heavy stuff we used to have fun together and I'd like to do that. No relationship talk or discussions about marriage - just a night out. Whatdaya say I get a sitter saturday night and we go downtown???"


Then - follow through. She's in withdrawal so she'll be running late and unable to get ready, feed the kids and arrange a sitter so you just handle all that stuff up front for her without comment. Then you take her out and anytime she tries to talk relationship or be heavy you LISTEN for a bit (don't pass up an opportunity to plant some seeds) but then stop her and indicate this night is break night from marital strife for both of you.


Waywards LOVE to escape reality. Most jump at the chance to go out and escape thinking about their life and predicament. Then, once out, if you back off they can't help themselves pursuing relationship conversations anyway. She'll be more attracted to the husband that wants to have fun and be like he was years ago when they first met than a mopey husband who's all pressuring her to commit and talking so serious all the time.

Added bonus - it'll be a few hours she won't be thinking about, texting, emailing or otherwise obsessing about OM. IF they are continuing the affair in some manner - OM won't like you taking his girlfriend out on the town and he can be the one getting all nervous, obsessive and jealous about your relationship with your wife.


It's a difficult balancing act to undertake. Not pursuing but yet somehow always around. No contact is just so essential that you can't just leave your wife adrift in the fog by herself to find her way home - but you also can't drag her out of the fog kicking and screaming. You have to be like a magician, distracting with one hand while the other one is pulling a pulling a tow line you hooked up to her boat under the water line. So remain as present as you can in her life without pursuing. The more time you can do this ALONE and without the children around the better. Her idle time is her riskiest time.

[trumpet]

Georgia,

Awesome words of wisdom!

I use Covenant Eyes on my phone and PC... have since discovering the affair and quitting porn cold turkey. Day 76 for me - yay!

She knows this. She's getting reports. This did have an impact when she's willing and wanting to talk with me. Her interest in me was different - asking questions about me and abstaining from all sexual contact, including masturbation. My addiction is something I take seriously, but in the questions she asked, I could tell I moved up the respect ladder with her - and it got her thinking about intimacy with me. I repulsed her, as she always thought about me and porn.

She has her own issues with self-image, and very low libido. I'm working through my struggles, and praying that if God wants me to live in a sexless marriage, that I accept it, and continue to reconcile. It might just be that way - my wife sees no issue with zero intimacy. Yes, the Bible says this, that, all the marriage websites say to just do it, but to her, it's icky and gross, and she might not ever get over it. I have to accept that.

[npmyst]

She has her own issues with self-image, and very low libido. I'm working through my struggles, and praying that if God wants me to live in a sexless marriage, that I accept it, and continue to reconcile. It might just be that way - my wife sees no issue with zero intimacy. Yes, the Bible says this, that, all the marriage websites say to just do it, but to her, it's icky and gross, and she might not ever get over it. I have to accept that.

I don't believe one word of that and I don't think you should either. The bible talks about mutual submission to one another. Withholding sex because she feels its icky is not acceptable in my eyes when its your job as a spouse to put your spouses needs before yours....i.e. Mutual Submission to one another.

I wouldn't accept it and you shouldn't either. I'm not saying she should turn into a sex addict, but she should respect you as a man and respect your needs.

[gs9]

God does not want you to live in a sexless marriage.

1 Corinthians 7:5
Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely to prayer. Afterward, you should come together again so that Satan won't be able to tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Could be her "icky and gross" comments are her excuses for her low self esteem. These issues will take time to resolve but of course she will want to resolve them in order to be helped.

[trumpet]

npmyst,

In theory, yes, but to her, my needs have never been a priority.

Yes, I'd love to tell her that. It will come up in counseling, if we get there. But after lots of prayer, I realize that's my cross to bear to keep my vow, my word. Is her disregarding my emotional and physical needs a sin in my book? Yes. Did I disregard her needs for 15 years? Yes.

Her mom and dad have a 'wonderful' relationship, accord to my wife.
Her mom has been walking with a cane since she was 50. Never exercised. Did gastric bypass years ago, gained it all back. Worked part-time her whole life. Was emotionally abused as a kid by an alcoholic father. Lots of issues, including huge amounts of sarcasm and resentment.
My wife's father puts up with it all. Worked 2 jobs his whole life. Fixes a 150 year old queen-ann victorian house. Gets up 3 times a night to heat the house with a wood-burning stove. Drives her everywhere. He cooks, he cleans, he washes dishes, fixes the house, maintains the cars and house, works a full-time job after he retired. He does most of the laundry. He has always driven his mother and mother-in-law everywhere. His sister in law has never gotten her driving license - he drives her everywhere as well.

Do you know what she does? Spends money, watches tv, chats with my wife on facebook, and does a little charity work on the side. She does do some of the grociery shopping.

My wife sees this as the perfect relationship. The husband doing almost everything - the wife, doing what she wants. This is the desire for my wife - the perfect marriage, accord to her. That desire turned into expectations when we got married, and we had fireworks in our house in the first 3 months because of it. All her expectations not getting met meant she now has huge amounts of resentment towards me. I have told her she has unrealistic expectations... her comments point to 'So, I have high expectations? Shouldn't I? Shouldn't you be held to a high standard?'

Mutual submission isn't in my wife's vocabulary. It's sad, and if I want to have a fulfilling marriage, my wife would have to come around to thinking that she's 50% of the work behind getting us back to whole. I can't tell her that, and I know I have work to do on my side of the street.

So, I believe in marriage, and I believe keeping my vow. I also believe that I need to find happiness in my life, as I don't think my wife has the capability of providing it. But in a marriage, do you really want to rely on your spouse to provide all your happiness?

Maybe I'm a bit jaded and wallowing in a bit of pity today, but once I have a wife who's willing to work on us, then some of this can come out - in front of a counselor.