Here again after 9 years and struggling 2

[inpain]

H didn't text, call or come round yesterday. I can't say I was surprised. I should think it was some kind of reaction to the texting the day before.

Today, however, he woke me up with a text - which really annoyed me. Here I am, struggling to get enough sleep thanks to him, and then he wakes me up with texts too! He asked me to let him know what time he could come round later and that he'd be asleep until late afternoon (he is on night shift).

I sort of feel like I did well, because I didn't reply until gone 6pm! Previously I have texted after 10 minutes or so and told him that he can come round whenever he likes.

Possibly more MLC stuff - he has grown a beard! He has never had a beard in his life. He even felt the need to tell me that there was nothing in it other than that he just thought he'd see what it was like. Seemed like he was trying to reassure me about it or something. Why?! Yet again his visit consisted of him sitting watching S play on PS4 and H checking his phone regularly throughout. We were eating tea when he came and D was being difficult. She has been becoming more and more difficult about eating the last few weeks - a symptom of all that is going on I think. H, of course, doesn't see any of it. He said something to her about eating it and she had a major meltdown. She was crying and shouted at H that if he knew anything he'd know that she can't eat lately because he's left and that if he wants to be all nicey nicey then why doesn't he just come home, that would be being nice. H looked shocked and for a second he looked like he might cry. She is only 7 and has always been Daddy's little girl. He really is underestimating the damage he is doing to them both. They have been showered with love and affection from both of us their whole lives and he thinks that walking away and withdrawing the major share of his affection isn't going to affect them in any way? Crazy! She went upstairs to play for the remainder of his visit. He didn't make any attempt to go up and see her.

He left saying he would see them tomorrow.

This is an area I could do with help on. His access to the children. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing or what I should do. He is calling all the shots and just says, "See you tomorrow," every time he comes round. I don't know how long this should go on for, him coming round every day when it's convenient for him and then withdrawing for a few days because he's, quote, "Not in the mood, sorry." whenever he feels like it. If I made myself scarce every time he came round I would barely see them for quality time myself!

[Irish M]

Hi Inpain

So sorry for what you have to deal with and beinig the one parent to your kids.

It's good they tell their dad how they feel. Coming from them is better than your H hearing it from them. My girls told their mom and they get no empathy.
MLC is narcissist and no empathy. Don't try to understand it. Hug your daughter and remind her that it's not her the cause of this.

As for the visits when it's convienient to him. You need to set up a schedule. The kids don't need the disappointment of him not showing up. You don't need to me on call. He left, he needs to know and feel the consequeces of this. He shouldn't be able to come and go as he pleases. Boundaries are necessary for your sanity and the wellbeing of your kids.

Also, I turned off my phone at night so my W wouldn't wake me up.
Sleep is very important, get rested so you can be in a better state of mind.

Hugs to you , it does get better

[Irish M]

Hi Inpain
Coming from them is better than your H hearing it from them

I meant coming from them is better than your H hearing it from you

Sorry iPhone typo :-)

[Ancaire]

inpain - What to do about his access to the children? This depends on a couple of things. The most important is your motivation for changing anything.

I personally never really interfere when H wants so spend time with the kids. He used to spend so much more time with them than he does now. So I tend to just let him visit on the rare occasions they cross his mind - but my kids are older.

Is he interfering with bedtimes? Is he getting in the way? Your D is definitely suffering from his not being there as often. I don't know the answer for you, but I would advise that you make sure to proceed with caution, check your motivation, and make sure what you're putting in place is best for the children.

A schedule is great for establishing order and routine. On the other hand, if you have a WAS who misses his visits on scheduled days, and doesn't try to make it up - the kids ultimately are the ones hurt.

I'll support you either way. You've got to do what's best for you and the children.

[inpain]

So sorry for what you have to deal with and beinig the one parent to your kids.

It's good they tell their dad how they feel. Coming from them is better than your H hearing it from them. My girls told their mom and they get no empathy.
MLC is narcissist and no empathy. Don't try to understand it. Hug your daughter and remind her that it's not her the cause of this.

Hi IrishM and thank you again for posting. I began to read your situation last night but haven't finished yet. I cannot begin to imagine how you and your girls feel, cannot believe the things your W has said and done, I'm so sorry.

As for the visits when it's convienient to him. You need to set up a schedule. The kids don't need the disappointment of him not showing up. You don't need to me on call. He left, he needs to know and feel the consequeces of this. He shouldn't be able to come and go as he pleases. Boundaries are necessary for your sanity and the wellbeing of your kids.

This is pretty much the way I'm feeling. Why should he just be able to call in whenever he wants - if he wants that then he should move back home and build a better M with me. I know it's possible, just needs him to wake up and smell the coffee.

Also, I turned off my phone at night so my W wouldn't wake me up.
Sleep is very important, get rested so you can be in a better state of mind.

Hugs to you , it does get better

It's reassuring to know it gets better, thank you. I use my phone as my alarm, that is why he manages to wake me up - maybe I should rethink that and get myself an alarm clock.

[inpain]

inpain - What to do about his access to the children? This depends on a couple of things. The most important is your motivation for changing anything.

Hi Ancaire. Well, that's the million dollar question isn't it, my motivation. I don't really know.

There are so many conflicting thoughts I have about it:

1. Why should H get to walk away and then come and go as he pleases to see the kids. If he wants that with them then he should move back in and work on M.

2. When I've tentatively broached the subject with S11 his answer is that he wants to see Dad every day.

3. Every time he comes round I have to make myself scarce like I don't exist, in my own home. It upsets me to see H so loving with them and cold with me. Every time he comes round I get my hopes up that he will decide to come home.

4. I don't know any divorced parents where the parent that the children don't live with see the children every day. Therefore, this situation is not likely to continue if H does D me.

5. Coming round every day means he isn't missing them or me as much as he could, which isn't likely to bring him home.

6. Yes, he is interfering with bedtimes. His visits are half hearted, he comes in and sits on his phone most of the time. He comes round at what he knows is there bedtime, so then I end up letting them stay up as he's only just arrived, then they're cranky the next day. He doesn't even stay to put them to bed: walks out as soon as I tell them it is time for bed.

I don't know the answer for you, but I would advise that you make sure to proceed with caution, check your motivation, and make sure what you're putting in place is best for the children.

I cannot decide what is best for them in this situation. Best for them is clearly to have their Dad living under the same roof but he's taken that away from them. I don't know if best for them now is to see him every day or see him a couple of times a week so they get used to how it would be once he has his own home etc. I feel like I hate him for putting me in this position where I have to decide between the devil and the deep blue sea. There is no best for them anymore thanks to him, it's gone Help!

[ciluzen]

Hi, IP! Okay. So, I have some thoughts...please don't think I'm being mean as I express them. Totally not my intent. I just want you to get through your pain so much and be the strong woman and mother I know you are.

There are so many conflicting thoughts I have about it:

1. Why should H get to walk away and then come and go as he pleases to see the kids. If he wants that with them then he should move back in and work on M.
His wanting to see his children has nothing to do with how you feel or what YOU think he should do. He is their father and he is trying to still show them that he loves them and wants to be a part of their lives. This is COMMENDABLE. He is their FATHER. Period. You can set boundaries that are more appropriate (times and days that he can come over, FI.)but you are steering very close to using your children in an attempt to control your H. This is NOT about them. It is between you and H. YOU CAN NOT USE THEM TO CONTROL HOW HE FEELS. He left because he could not handle another second of pain in his R. No, he should not come home to work on his M. He needs the space. If you really love him, give him that gift.


2. When I've tentatively broached the subject with S11 his answer is that he wants to see Dad every day.

Of course he does! That is his FATHER! But again, it has no bearing on the R between you and your H. It is hard on the children, but if you want to have H home you have to stop concentrating on how much it hurts them and work on YOU. Their father is making an effort to see them. Set some boundaries, but do not get in the way of this. If you constantly show that you feel it is hurting them, THAT is what will damage their R with their father, not his visiting and affecting how YOU feel. Be pleasant and upbeat and busy doing something else. Show how happy you are that HE CAME TO SEE THEM..

3. Every time he comes round I have to make myself scarce like I don't exist, in my own home. It upsets me to see H so loving with them and cold with me. Every time he comes round I get my hopes up that he will decide to come home.
This is you talking about how you REALLY feel. It is very painful, you're right. But he needs to see the strong you, the cheerful, beautiful, fun you that he won't get to have if he stays away. I haven't heard you speak of what you have learned about why he left? Try to flip things around and see his POV. What became so painful to him that he couldn't stay in the house? Figure it out and try to base your 180's on it, if you are willing to change. But, again, understand that your feelings about him being cold to you while visiting the kids are because it is your R is damaged and needs work, and your feelings about this should not affect his R with his kids.


4. I don't know any divorced parents where the parent that the children don't live with see the children every day. Therefore, this situation is not likely to continue if H does D me.
Please don't compare your R with anyone else's. You will never know what goes on behind closed doors. And you are not D yet. Cross that bridge when and if it comes. Don't worry about it now. Concentrate on DB.

5. Coming round every day means he isn't missing them or me as much as he could, which isn't likely to bring him home.
Again, you are throwing his visits with his children into YOUR DB efforts. They are SEPARATE. His R with his kids is SEPARATE from the R between YOU and HIM. He has left YOU. Not THEM. He is showing you this every time he visits. It hurts. Use it. But don't use THEM. Leave their relationship alone. If you can't be cheerful and upbeat when he comes over, leave. Go for a bike ride. Go for a walk. Arrange to have him babysit and use his car to go do something fun. SHOW him you UNDERSTAND that he needs his space ...and his children.

6. Yes, he is interfering with bedtimes. His visits are half hearted, he comes in and sits on his phone most of the time. He comes round at what he knows is there bedtime, so then I end up letting them stay up as he's only just arrived, then they're cranky the next day. He doesn't even stay to put them to bed: walks out as soon as I tell them it is time for bed.
You don't have to do this. Set the boundaries; nicely with a smile and an explanation. Kiddos need their sleep. Deadbolt your door so he has to knock. If he shows up past his time, tell him at the door that he is late and that he will have to wait til tomorrow. You can do this. You are their mother and you are strong.

I don't know the answer for you, but I would advise that you make sure to proceed with caution, check your motivation, and make sure what you're putting in place is best for the children.

I cannot decide what is best for them in this situation. Best for them is clearly to have their Dad living under the same roof but he's taken that away from them. I don't know if best for them now is to see him every day or see him a couple of times a week so they get used to how it would be once he has his own home etc. I feel like I hate him for putting me in this position where I have to decide between the devil and the deep blue sea. There is no best for them anymore thanks to him, it's gone Help!
[/quote]
Now I would like you to substitute "me" for the word "them" in all of the bolded statements. I know it is hard on the children, but it seems that this is more about you and your pain, your hurt, and your anger at H leaving. It is a horrible thing to be discarded. It seems that we need to grab at ANYTHING to make them realize that they are wrong wrong wrong to leave. But what if they are right? What if they simply could not be around us, their loving S, for another second? Do we keep parading the children and their pain and confusion in front of them and say "STAY" or you'll hurt them forever? What if that's the only reason they come back to stay, and we, satisfied that he's back, NEVER CHANGE? The kids will grow up, and then they leave for good.
Leave the children out of it. Work on you. Solve the mystery. Go through the pain, not past it. DB. BE STRONG! Know there are those of us here who care enough for you that we want to see you bust this wide open.

[Ancaire]

Hello, IP - I see your struggle. Let's take a look at what's best for you and the kids.

1. He shouldn't get to come and go as he pleases. That's rude, and not very courteous of the children's needs.
2. Of course, the kids want to see dad every day - but that doesn't give you much time to yourself.
3. You shouldn't make yourself scarce in your own home.
4. I do know D parents who allow the NC parent to see the kids once a day, but that is a very unusual circumstance.
5. Coming round everyday does mean he's not missing them (let's take you out of the situation for now, so that we can make the best decision.)
6. Interfering with bedtimes is a BIG no-no. He knows better than that - or he should. If they're not getting enough sleep, it's bad for their health.

Dad won't be living under the same roof; not until he wakes up or you decide you're tired of this. I know you can't fathom that right now, but you'll be surprised what time and GAL does for the way you view the situation.

Let's try something like this:

H, I've been doing a lot of thinking about our present circumstances. I want to do what's best for the children, for me, and for you.

The children go to be at *. I feel it would be best for them to have as much of a regular schedule as can be, under the present circumstances. I could use some time for myself in the evenings, too. When you arrive late, and they stay up late, they are cranky and tired the following day. It's not good for them to have too little sleep, and I want to make decisions that are in their best interests.

Since you've decided to move out of the home, let's see how we do with a regular visiting schedule. You can come visit the children M, W, and F from * to *. If you are running late, and get here at their bedtime, please count on only having time to put them to bed and then you'll need to go home. You can come get the children and have them every other weekend.

This way, the kids will get used to a new routine, both you and I will have time in the evenings with the children, and you'll have a couple of nights during the week to yourself.

We can discuss any other times you'd like access to them that is not part of the schedule ahead of time. I'm more than willing to let you have access to the children. You and I both know that children do best with a regular routine. I know you love them and want the best for them, so let's start doing this and help them become accustomed to our new reality.

Expect a negative reaction. WAS never like it when the LBS begins putting up boundaries and enforcing them. The WAS is selfish, selfish, selfish - everything is all about them. Since H is out of his mind presently, you're going to have to look out for the kids' best interests.

That's really what you're doing. The fact that you get a couple of nights to yourself without hiding in your room is a bonus. You also need some time with the kids at night. He's basically taking up all the evening "hanging out" time.

Don't hide away in your room if you don't want to. You live there. I tend to take myself out of any room H is in, but that's because I don't want to see him. It doesn't bother me to go read for a bit, or play on the computer while he's here. He can entertain the kids while I get some time to myself.

There is a best for the kids. The best situation, under the circumstances, is for them to have a regular schedule, and time with both parents. The situation is awful, I agree - but you have to make it as good for them as you can. He's just not capable of putting their interests first right now.

I know you're hurting, and not quite capable of seeing the big picture right now. Please let me help you see from the outside? I'll let you help me anytime you want.

[inpain]

Hi, IP! Okay. So, I have some thoughts...please don't think I'm being mean as I express them. Totally not my intent. I just want you to get through your pain so much and be the strong woman and mother I know you are.

Hi Ciluzen, I have to be totally honest, your post left me in floods of tears. I know you are right in what you have put and I know that you have done it with my best interests at heart. It is very painful to read though as it seems as though I have to accept that basically, my feelings don't count in this situation, to anyone but myself. I know I needed this 2x4 and I do thank you for caring enough to give it.

His wanting to see his children has nothing to do with how you feel or what YOU think he should do. He is their father and he is trying to still show them that he loves them and wants to be a part of their lives. This is COMMENDABLE.

Hadn't seen it like that, you are right, I'm too wrapped up in my pain and anger to think good of him I suppose.

but you are steering very close to using your children in an attempt to control your H. This is NOT about them. It is between you and H. YOU CAN NOT USE THEM TO CONTROL HOW HE FEELS. He left because he could not handle another second of pain in his R. No, he should not come home to work on his M. He needs the space. If you really love him, give him that gift.

This upset me the most. I absolutely do not want to use them as a tool in this and can see what you mean that I am almost doing so. It isn't my conscious intention. I guess I'm being guided by how I feel and thinking they feel the same.


2. When I've tentatively broached the subject with S11 his answer is that he wants to see Dad every day.

This is you talking about how you REALLY feel. It is very painful, you're right. But he needs to see the strong you, the cheerful, beautiful, fun you that he won't get to have if he stays away. I haven't heard you speak of what you have learned about why he left? Try to flip things around and see his POV. What became so painful to him that he couldn't stay in the house? Figure it out and try to base your 180's on it, if you are willing to change.

Despite what I put in my previous post I am being cheerful and upbeat when he comes round. I am making sure I look my best and I make jokes and am happy and playful with the children. I have made him laugh most visits. What I have learned about why he left...he doesn't love me anymore because, in his words, I have 'beaten' it out of him. Not literally, I have never touched him or beaten him. He means with words. I struggled for a long time to be receptive to him and not be angry with him after the discovery of him contacting OW again for several years behind my back. In his own way he tried to make it right but it wasn't the way I needed and by his own admission he gave up. We have also argued a lot about S11. H is very strict and we have disagreed about this a lot. He has also said I don't show an interest in what he has to say about his job. Since he has left, when he comes round I have done the following 180s: showed keen interest in everything he talks to me about and asked questions about his job, wished him a good shift whenever he leaves if he is going to work that day; stayed out of any times he's disciplined S11; shown love in the only way I can when he's sacked me as his wife, by making him feel welcome and attending to needs such as drinks/snacks.


[quote=Ciluzen]
Again, you are throwing his visits with his children into YOUR DB efforts. They are SEPARATE. His R with his kids is SEPARATE from the R between YOU and HIM. He has left YOU. Not THEM. He is showing you this every time he visits. It hurts. Use it. But don't use THEM. Leave their relationship alone. If you can't be cheerful and upbeat when he comes over, leave. Go for a bike ride. Go for a walk. Arrange to have him babysit and use his car to go do something fun. SHOW him you UNDERSTAND that he needs his space ...and his children.

This made me cry a lot too :/, especially the bit he has left YOU not THEM. You're right and it does hurt. It is excruciatingly painful. You say USE IT. How? What do you mean? How do I use it?

[quote=Ciluzen]
You don't have to do this. Set the boundaries; nicely with a smile and an explanation. Kiddos need their sleep. Deadbolt your door so he has to knock. If he shows up past his time, tell him at the door that he is late and that he will have to wait til tomorrow. You can do this. You are their mother and you are strong.

I am afraid to do this in case it angers him and hampers my DBing efforts.

I know it is hard on the children, but it seems that this is more about you and your pain, your hurt, and your anger at H leaving. It is a horrible thing to be discarded. It seems that we need to grab at ANYTHING to make them realize that they are wrong wrong wrong to leave. But what if they are right? What if they simply could not be around us, their loving S, for another second? Do we keep parading the children and their pain and confusion in front of them and say "STAY" or you'll hurt them forever? What if that's the only reason they come back to stay, and we, satisfied that he's back, NEVER CHANGE? The kids will grow up, and then they leave for good.
Leave the children out of it. Work on you. Solve the mystery. Go through the pain, not past it. DB. BE STRONG! Know there are those of us here who care enough for you that we want to see you bust this wide open.

I don't see how they can be right to leave rather than working on the M. I understand what you mean about what if that was the only reason they came back. I can see that. I do not intend to not change if he comes back though. I want him to come back so that I can show him I am changing/have changed/ will continue to be different and attentive. I want to build a happy M with him, not have him stay for the kids. However, the children are being hurt A LOT by this. My D7 is complaining of tummy aches all the time and saying she doesn't want to go to school (she loved school prior to H leaving) and she cannot get to sleep because she misses Daddy tucking her in. S11 is in tears every day and asks constantly why Daddy isn't coming home and is always asking H why.

[inpain]

Hi Ancaire, thank you for helping me with this, I really appreciate it. I know I need a 2 x 4 with it!

Hello, IP - I see your struggle. Let's take a look at what's best for you and the kids.

1. He shouldn't get to come and go as he pleases. That's rude, and not very courteous of the children's needs.
2. Of course, the kids want to see dad every day - but that doesn't give you much time to yourself.
3. You shouldn't make yourself scarce in your own home.
4. I do know D parents who allow the NC parent to see the kids once a day, but that is a very unusual circumstance.
5. Coming round everyday does mean he's not missing them (let's take you out of the situation for now, so that we can make the best decision.)
6. Interfering with bedtimes is a BIG no-no. He knows better than that - or he should. If they're not getting enough sleep, it's bad for their health.

I really feel like you understand how I feel about this. I do feel like I don't matter at all and I just have to vanish into thin air when he comes round. Which is OK if it is for an hour but it isn't, it's almost every day for hours! Do I not get to have a life? A life with my children? It is basically meaning that I get to do all the tough stuff like getting them ready for school, helping with homework, bathing and getting them to bad and then I have to make myself scarce for all the good times in between!

Dad won't be living under the same roof; not until he wakes up or you decide you're tired of this. I know you can't fathom that right now, but you'll be surprised what time and GAL does for the way you view the situation.

You're right, I am struggling to accept this so much. It isn't what I want, it isn't what I want for my children. Ever. I don't want them to have to be shipped from one house to another several times a week like a parcel. They are not parcels they are people. I say this to everyone who talks to me about it - ask yourself if you'd want to have to stay in two different houses several times a week and keep chopping and changing who you're with. I know I wouldn't. I can't imagine anyone would. Yet this is the reality of what is inflicted on children when parents divorce. I hate the very idea of it and always have even before I found myself here. I think it is appalling for children to have to live like it. (Sorry, going off on a tangent here, I have always felt very strongly against this).

Let's try something like this:

[i]H, I've been doing a lot of thinking about our present circumstances. I want to do what's best for the children, for me, and for you.

The children go to bed at *. I feel it would be best for them to have as much of a regular schedule as can be, under the present circumstances. I could use some time for myself in the evenings, too. When you arrive late, and they stay up late, they are cranky and tired the following day. It's not good for them to have too little sleep, and I want to make decisions that are in their best interests.

Since you've decided to move out of the home, let's see how we do with a regular visiting schedule. You can come visit the children M, W, and F from * to *. If you are running late, and get here at their bedtime, please count on only having time to put them to bed and then you'll need to go home. You can come get the children and have them every other weekend.

I love this, thank you! Only problem being that because of H's shifts we cannot set a schedule as regular as this. He cannot even do every other weekend and there is no same day each week he can see them either, hence the current situation of him coming and going when he pleases He misses out on so much of their lives because of his shifts and I feel like I've almost brought them up single handedly to this point!

Expect a negative reaction. WAS never like it when the LBS begins putting up boundaries and enforcing them. The WAS is selfish, selfish, selfish - everything is all about them. Since H is out of his mind presently, you're going to have to look out for the kids' best interests.

That's really what you're doing. The fact that you get a couple of nights to yourself without hiding in your room is a bonus. You also need some time with the kids at night. He's basically taking up all the evening "hanging out" time.

Yes! He is, you are so right! I feel like he is getting the perfect deal here.

There is a best for the kids. The best situation, under the circumstances, is for them to have a regular schedule, and time with both parents. The situation is awful, I agree - but you have to make it as good for them as you can. He's just not capable of putting their interests first right now.

I know you're hurting, and not quite capable of seeing the big picture right now. Please let me help you see from the outside? I'll let you help me anytime you want.

I am more than willing to let you help me. I am so incredibly grateful for yours and everyone else's help on here. I would be lost without you! Thank you again!