WW is onboard with trying to save the M

[JGuy]

Are you the emotional one, JGuy? My wife has always had issues expressing herself in a deep sense - while I always have been the one to want to have deep, meaningful conversations. She was always 'lets go out and get a few in us and see what happens!'.
I was the homebody who wanted to snuggle and talk about life.

Yes, exactly! I was always the one who was interested in deepening the emotional intimacy. Talking about our feelings, doing the real work of tending to the MR. I was often frustrated because I could sense there was a problem we needed to work through together, but my W would just always avoid it and sweep it under the carpet. Early on in our MR, before we were engaged, I was very frustrated by this feeling of "hitting the ball to her, but she would never hit it back". It's like she just always tried to manage everything on her own, without any real collaboration. It made for a lonely feeling, which I eventually accepted, stopped fighting against, and learned to focus on the other ways that I could connect with her and love her. I was the one who had read many self help books and who was more practiced in long term relationships in general, so in this sense I was always the stronger one.

Given this imbalance, it's ironic that she is the one who ended up cheating on me. It's significant, I think, that she never continued any affair with a single person. She just kept longing for something more and getting caught up in one fantasy after another by projecting her hopes on other guys. Many of them were just crushes that never went anywhere. Only two of them went further into mutual feelings, the PA 2 years ago and the more recent EA. She never did end up finding the real emotional intimacy she was looking for, but she did find her longing for it. I think this is good, since the longing is healthy, but she chose to respond to it in a very unhealthy and irresponsible way. What she longs for has been available right here, with me all this time, and she is only now just starting to look at how her own issues are a major reason why it is blocked. The IC is helping her see how she has deep habits of avoiding intimacy, which she is repeating with me in the same way she avoided being close with her parents.

I know I sound like I'm putting all the blame on her again, so for the record, I want to say that I'm not closed to seeing how I may have contributed in some ways to blocking the emotional intimacy as well. I was demanding and critical of her at times when I was frustrated and fed up with my own needs being ignored and I think this may have reinforced her own patterns because when I behave in demanding and critical ways, it is similar to her parents. It's confusing though, because it's very valid for me to feel frustrated when she is repeatedly unresponsive to more gentle requests to connect and talk through issues. I'm trying to think of what could be a better way of handling my frustration in that situation, instead of becoming demanding and critical. I want to do my part.

Have you started any new hobbies? Do you exercise?

Yeah, I have fulfilling hobbies. I am artistic, musical, and I enjoy working on the house. I am also a ski mountaineer and I just got out in the backcountry yesterday with some good friends. My face is sunburned today... ouch! I didn't think I'd need sunscreen in December!

[JGuy]

Really though, I think we have to take a wait and see approach. Patience. I am letting him initiate because if I am the one that has to push for this, i will never trust it. I am going to be friendly and open and work on validation but I feel he needs to want it enough to take lead. If he doesn't want me enough, the marriage is not going to work out for me in the long run and I am better off knowing now.

This is exactly how I'm feeling right now too, Julie. I am gradually getting more comfortable with taking a hands off approach (both figuratively and literally!) so that there's room for her to drive, for a change. I need to see that she really wants me if this is ever going to work!

I'll try and find time to read up on your sitch, Julie. Thanks for reaching out.

[trumpet]

JGuy,

Ha ha. Lots in common.

Please keep updating your progress. I'm interested to hear how you're doing.

My hope that my sitch. was going to get fixed in a month was LOL funny now that I look back. Going to take MONTHS, and I'm just starting the race.

[JGuy]

Time for an update. I have been continuing to have insomnia. Usually I fall asleep OK, but wake up at 5am and can't fall asleep again because of uncontrollable emotional pain and my mind won't stop racing and thinking about my sitch. I also have been struggling with deep tension in my neck that causes headaches. This morning was really bad.

My mind just keeps gravitating back to thinking about how my life has been ruined. All of my hopes and dreams, what I thought my M was, shattered. I find myself wanting to escape, walk away from it all, but because of our son I cannot, will not ever do that. I am trapped, in a bind... stuck in a nightmare that I cannot escape.

I am lucky, some of you must be thinking, that my W has ended all contact with the OM and is engaged in trying to work on the M. But something in my gut tells me that I'm not getting off that easy. You see, my W is not attracted to me. That has not changed. As long as that has not changed, there is no going backwards to how things were before. There is no easy out. Given this circumstance, I'm almost wondering if I'm UNlucky. The fact that my W is ending the EA and trying to work on the M gives me real hope, which puts a pause on the process of completely letting go which I would otherwise be forced to go through. So although I'm lucky, it also interferes with a process of letting go which I feel like I MUST go through if I am ever to win back her attraction.

You see, I have been reading up on detachment again. I have been reading others' threads and I am hearing about how people finally reached a breaking point where they detached, often because they realized there was nothing they could do. In my sitch, I feel very much like there are things I can do. This keeps me holding on, hesitating to let go completely. As a result, I continue to find myself getting stuck in a weird limbo state, where nothing is getting worse but it's not getting better either.

I'm guessing this is probably a good time to go back and revisit my goals. I think I'll do that now...

[JGuy]

One more thing. I have been experiencing some moments of clarity where I can see how detachment is the way forward. When I see this, it feels like freedom, expansion. I feel happy and genuinely OK with whatever happens.

However, something causes me to slip backwards and lose touch with this inspired state of mind. It never seems to last long enough to take hold. I'm not sure why, and this has been really frustrating. It's like some unconscious part of me is still attached and I keep getting hooked and pulled back in to needing to control the outcome. Then I feel empty, depressed, exhausted.

Has anyone gone through this phase of feeling detached but slipping backwards, over and over again? Any advice on how to make it hold? How to recognize why I keep getting pulled back into the desire to control?

[tl2]

Has anyone gone through this phase of feeling detached but slipping backwards, over and over again? Any advice on how to make it hold? How to recognize why I keep getting pulled back into the desire to control?

Yes, sort of.

Take heart. You're not a light and this isn't about flipping a switch; it's about changing long-term patterns of behavior in yourself. It's a process, and you're human, so it will be a little up and down as you get going. Just keep it as your goal, keep pushing forward, and keep doing it.

[JulieH]

Hi JGUY

I bounce back between being extremely angry and having tons of contempt for my husband (95% of the time) and then rare states of peace, when i feel empathetic and wish the best for him. When i am having fun and when I am happy and hopeful about my own life I wish the best for him. I find most of the time I think about all the things I am mad at him for. And for some crazy reason I get really mad at his mom too, (and she wants us back together, so go figure.) I don't understand this either and it has always made me feel like I cannot trust my feelings.

You worded those states of peace I experience well... as moments of clarity. I feel good at those times and wish they lasted longer.

I had been detaching until he brought up reconciliation. Now I feel hooked and pulled back in as well. Hope made things more difficult for me.

I was advised to meditate and use imagery to get away from the anger, but I have only tried it a few times I almost feel like I am addicted to my anger and to my constant and I mean constant thoughts about husband. ITs so unhealthy.

[trumpet]

One more thing. I have been experiencing some moments of clarity where I can see how detachment is the way forward. When I see this, it feels like freedom, expansion. I feel happy and genuinely OK with whatever happens.

However, something causes me to slip backwards and lose touch with this inspired state of mind. It never seems to last long enough to take hold. I'm not sure why, and this has been really frustrating. It's like some unconscious part of me is still attached and I keep getting hooked and pulled back in to needing to control the outcome. Then I feel empty, depressed, exhausted.

JGuy, you and I are two peas in a pod! Same exact thing happening. W is NC with OM, going through withdrawls. She is the non-emotional one; I am. I did detach a bit in the first month, did well, wife started to come around, still in the fog, I got my hopes up, dove into the pool, not realizing it was very shallow right now, and got hurt.

I'm doing the 'two steps forward, two steps back' dance. Trying to control the situation. Then letting go, and taking a couple steps forward. Then, getting lonely, getting anxious, losing sleep, and then crap comes out of my mouth, and then my foot gets jammed in there. Ugh.

Feeling like I'm detached today. I credit Sandi and TL2 for the '2x4 across the face' technique.

[Azzork]

Time for an update. I have been continuing to have insomnia. Usually I fall asleep OK, but wake up at 5am and can't fall asleep again because of uncontrollable emotional pain and my mind won't stop racing and thinking about my sitch.
Uncontrollable emotional pain, huh? Well what is your plan to deal with this? You cant live the rest of your life with this. When youjr mind starts to get revved up, what can you do to combat it? How can you start to think of something else? How can you prevent yourself from going down a rabbit hole which you know only ends in hurting yourself?

I also have been struggling with deep tension in my neck that causes headaches. This morning was really bad.
That sounds bad. Can you get a massage? Ice pack? Heating pad?

My mind just keeps gravitating back to thinking about how my life has been ruined.
Seriously? RUINED? I'd accept "changed", "affected", even "worsened"....but RUINED? Why are you giving her that much power over your life? Your life is not hers to dictate. You are 39....even if you get divorced today, wait 10 years and get married again, you could have an incredible, lasting, fulfilling marriage. I will NOT accept that your life is ruined.

All of my hopes and dreams, what I thought my M was, shattered.
So, all of your hopes and dreams were revolving around your marriage? Maybe thats part of your problem. What did you hope or dream for JGuy?

I find myself wanting to escape, walk away from it all, but because of our son I cannot, will not ever do that. I am trapped, in a bind... stuck in a nightmare that I cannot escape.
Im sorry for what youre going through. I really am. But, this is a little melodramatic, no? The way out is to stop worrying so much about her, and the "family unit" and focus on you and your relationship with your son. How will you do that today?

I am lucky, some of you must be thinking, that my W has ended all contact with the OM and is engaged in trying to work on the M. But something in my gut tells me that I'm not getting off that easy. You see, my W is not attracted to me. That has not changed.
Heres a very serious question - how attractive do you feel?

As long as that has not changed, there is no going backwards to how things were before.
Why would you want to go BACKWARDS to a marriage that wasnt working?

There is no easy out.
Nope. Theres no easy way out for ANY of us here? The way out is forward....Andy Dufresne-style.

Given this circumstance, I'm almost wondering if I'm UNlucky. The fact that my W is ending the EA and trying to work on the M gives me real hope, which puts a pause on the process of completely letting go which I would otherwise be forced to go through.
Seriously? We all have the same work to do either way. Maybe its a little harder for you, but the possibility to resurrect your marriage was MUCH higher than most when you arrived.

Ultimately, theres no point in comparing your situations. Find some that are fairly similar and keep good tabs on what works and doesnt work for them. For me, it was Defacto and Ripken8. How about you?

So although I'm lucky, it also interferes with a process of letting go which I feel like I MUST go through if I am ever to win back her attraction.
Stop thinking about it like you need to WIN her back. You need to BECOME attractive. Then, she will be attracted to you. Its not as complicated as you are making it out to be.

You see, I have been reading up on detachment again. I have been reading others' threads and I am hearing about how people finally reached a breaking point where they detached, often because they realized there was nothing they could do.
It's not about there being "nothing to do". It's realizing that there is nothing that can be done for the WS. Thats INCREDIBLY different.

In my sitch, I feel very much like there are things I can do.
There are. But the things to do are not to "win back your wife". They are to become the JGuy you want and deserve to be. As long as you keep treating your W as if she is on a pedestal, you cannot progress.

This keeps me holding on, hesitating to let go completely. As a result, I continue to find myself getting stuck in a weird limbo state, where nothing is getting worse but it's not getting better either.
So, you can see that holding on is not helpig you. What more do you need to convince you to let go?

I'm guessing this is probably a good time to go back and revisit my goals. I think I'll do that now...
It is ALWAYS a good time for that.

One more thing. I have been experiencing some moments of clarity where I can see how detachment is the way forward. When I see this, it feels like freedom, expansion. I feel happy and genuinely OK with whatever happens.
So, how do you keep that concept in your head?

However, something causes me to slip backwards and lose touch with this inspired state of mind.
Well....what is it that causes this? Next time you feel this "clarity', identify what might be causing it to end.

It never seems to last long enough to take hold. I'm not sure why, and this has been really frustrating. It's like some unconscious part of me is still attached and I keep getting hooked and pulled back in to needing to control the outcome. Then I feel empty, depressed, exhausted.
Yeah, holding on to that rope is tiring...

Has anyone gone through this phase of feeling detached but slipping backwards, over and over again? Any advice on how to make it hold? How to recognize why I keep getting pulled back into the desire to control?
Detachment is a process. Not an event. So there will be ebbs and flows, forwards and backwards. Dont worry so much about the linearity of moving forward. Just keep doing the best you can to fight towards it.

[JGuy]

You worded those states of peace I experience well... as moments of clarity. I feel good at those times and wish they lasted longer.

I had been detaching until he brought up reconciliation. Now I feel hooked and pulled back in as well. Hope made things more difficult for me.

JulieH, I am trying to find your thread to read about your sitch, but I cannot find it. You seem to post a lot on everyone else's thread but I can't seem to find yours... can you share a link to it?