Thanks Mona, I know there are positives, but I've also been here with my W on a few occasions before we were M. It feels like it's very easy for her to take me from romantic partner to friend very quickly without concern for my experience of being downshifted. I've also been served and she's filed.
We did meet last night for the dog swap. She invited me in for a bit which was comforting and also uncomfortable as her apartment is furnished with all of our marital furniture. It pulled on me to see my old couch, and sit at the table where we had shared so many great meals and conversations. She was wearing the necklace I gave her on our wedding day as well.
Mostly we talked about Woofie, and watched him romp around the room. I think he was putting on a show to have us both in the same room together. I'm going to miss him like crazy over the next few weeks.
My W told me more her own life, how she feels like she's gone deeper into her spirituality and now sees how God has been trying to speak to her for her whole life. Although this isn't my experience, she feels that it is hers and I acknowledged that. A few months ago I probably would have laughed about it. We talked a lot about religion and both of our renewed connection to higher powers.
She shared with my how hard it was recently to be with her family since they have little kids and that was the point where we were at as well. I had to breathe through that as part of me feels like the decision to start a family was made together, but the decision to end that was made unilaterally and without me. Fair or not, that's how I feel. I acknowledged that it is hard for us both to be where we are.
I may have made a DB mistake of sorts when she told me that when she came home from a recent trip and drove to her new place that she had to pinch herself and laugh about how amazing her new life is. I know she is excited about new opportunities and loves her new apartment and town. I said, "Thanks" and had to turn my head because truthfully I was hurt.
DB'ing as I know it would have been to the blow the comment off or pretend that it didn't bother me, but it got me. Our history has a lot of occasions as I said to Mona above where I was left hurt because I had been dumped but then would get asked for advice about picking out a NYE dress for her two weeks later. Stuff like that. It felt insensitive to flaunt how amazing everything is to the person the person you just left.
She apologized, and I explained that I was more sensitive seeing all of our old stuff in combination with what I'm experiencing with the sale of my business. The old me would have gotten mad at her or ended the conversation right there, but her apology and my explanation let us move on to other topics.
Last night was weird DB'ers. On some level there was a shift where I could really see my W as something other than a mystical creature. I could see her as a human who was hurt, scared, vulnerable, and on some level sad. She's put on some weight and is insecure about it (she looked stunning), and is unsure of her future and having to rely on faith. I saw her humanity and not just my own desire to be with her, make her mine, and/or force her to do something she doesn't want to do. I just saw her as her.
The David Deida class was incredible. The talk about the masculine and the feminine is a lot of what we speak about here. About the masculine standing still, strong, and open, and letting the feminine move, change, and be fluid. We would stand face to face with a member of the opposite sex and look them directly in the eye to create polarity. With some people, there were sparks flying, with others you could tell that they were closed off, or trying to hard.
The teachers talked about the power that opposites have, and that often times those people who "get along" the best make for poor bedfellows. That there has to almost be an acting out of the masculine and feminine in the bedroom because there is a dulling of the polarity in our day to day lives since so much of the interaction happens on more equal footing. One of the teachers joked that until you've had sex with someone you actively dislike you haven't experienced the power in the oppositions!
It reminded me of something I've said since the first time I dated my W years ago - I never felt her overwhelming desire for me. I never thought she wanted to rip my shirt off and run her nails down my back no matter what I did for or to her. I've felt this with most other women I've been with and have even had that sense since with women after left - even without physical intimacy.
She and I were peas in a pod, we laughed and joked and talked for hours every day, but maybe for her that spark just wasn't there. Who knows. If it was, I can only tell you of a few times when I felt it.
Again last night my W asked why I was looking at her the way that I was, and I did joke this time that she's just not used to me looking at her with clear eyes. Maybe she feels more now in my eyes than she did before. Hopefully.
As always, my wish is for happiness to suddenly overtake everyone on this board and celebratory posts to sprout up left and right.
PP
Last edited by PigPen; 11/11/1509:18 PM.
M 39 W 36 T5 M3 BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day Served 9/15 D finalized 6/17
Interesting. Got a text photo of Woofie from my W for the first time in 5 months yesterday. She hasn't reached out to me without there being an underlying reason that was D related in that period.
I thanked her and she asked me about the David Deida class I'd taken. We exchanged a few messages and let it be.
As we crawl closer and closer to the actual D, she's opening up more and more. And as is probably pure DB fashion, the less interest I have in her on the deepest level, the more she is reaching out.
Here's a good Friday for everyone.
PP
M 39 W 36 T5 M3 BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day Served 9/15 D finalized 6/17
PP, I am amused at the image of women lining up to tear off your shirt and run their nails down your back. My wish for you is for that to happen again, you deserve that kind of passion. You are doing so well, keep detaching and moving forward.
PP...I am on such a learning journey. My childhood was chaos; my dad was an alcoholic from a long line of alcoholics. I was the eldest child, and the classic overachiever in hopes of being "good enough".
I've been exploring the topic of codependency lately, and have had my eyes opened in surprising ways. It's almost too much to deal with all at once. I've made an observation about myself...I am not an alcoholic...but I definitely have alcoholic traits. In my case, it manifested in overeating. The damage to my body and health has been extreme. I am getting a handle on this, but it is so darned hard!
I had an alcohol/depressive disorder related episode (first one ever) a couple of weeks ago that landed me in huge trouble. After learning that I should not drink with the depressive disorder, I vowed never to drink again. I never craved it before, so no problem, right?
Hah! Tell someone they cannot have something, and suddenly that is all they can think about. So, now I'm fighting a double whammy...fighting off food and booze cravings. Who knew that stirring the pot would bring up all this crap?
I'm going to start working a 12 step program from home until my car is repaired, then likely find a weekly Alanon meeting to attend. I wanted to reach out to you because I've been so impressed with your recovery. I so desperately want to be a success like you! I also wanted to let you know you weren't alone here. My self-esteem, never great to begin with, is really taking a beating with finding out all my areas of dysfunction. Like you, I am determined. I want a full, healthy, happy life. I'm determined to do whatever is needed to get where I want to be.
I've been so inspired by you. Thanks for being do honest.
She wore the necklace you gave her on her wedding day? WHAT!? I am a woman, and I can tell you with 90% certainty that she put on that necklace on purpose to get a response from you.
My suggestion, Don't read anything into it. Even though I spit my coffee out when I read it, dont YOU read anything into it. There are a million reasons why she put that necklace on, and you would be mind reading to guess.
The second thing is you have to stay above her craziness when she talks. Keep telling yourself to not believe ANYTHING she says. She told you how great her life is now (she had to pinch herself) to get a response from you.
How many people do you know have a great time going through a divorce? Unless someone was getting abused or drugs, a divorce is painful for everyone.
She is going through her own pain. She definitely does not want you to know this.
I see many positives when I look at how things might be leaning. Just focus on the baby steps, like her last text out of the blue. That is definitely a positive. It is a baby step that you are heading in the right direction.
It is like a very overweight person. Imagine your M as a person who weighs 700 lbs. Even doctors wont do things like stapling a tummy on a 700 lb person. That person has to go a few months with a consistent small weight loss to prove to the doc they are really changing their lifestyle.
If the person only loses 10 pounds in a month, does that mean failure? Heck no! Yes, we prefer a larger amount of progress, but any progress, consistently shown, is great work.
90 minute conversation, inviting you in for a while at the swap, and a text message out of the blue. Just keep moving forward with your life, don't believe a word she says and be proud of what you have accomplished so far.
Me: 42 H: 45 M: 18 yrs T: 20 yrs D: 17 D: 15 S: 12 I kicked him out 8/21/15 I will DB until March 21st 2017, that is it!
One more thing... I tried to remember the last time I made my H feel like I wanted to tear off his shirt and run my nails down his back...
I am guessing this would be the equivalent to me dreaming about getting some flowers from H??
What an eye opener for me. I can give all the reasons in the world why it is not my fault I did not make him feel this way, but the fact is, I did not make him feel this way.
Give us more PP! What else did I not make him feel??
Me: 42 H: 45 M: 18 yrs T: 20 yrs D: 17 D: 15 S: 12 I kicked him out 8/21/15 I will DB until March 21st 2017, that is it!
I guess running my nails down his face isn't the same kind of thing? But it excites me!
LOL - Thanks for getting my heart going today. I adore you, PP. You are all kinds of awesomeness, and a real inspiration to me.
I have to agree with Mona. No way the necklace was just "any old thing" she just happened to put on. I didn't even catch up on that the first time I read it. Unfortunately, just why she felt compelled to wear it...women are complicated. Sometimes I don't even understand why I do some of the things I do, and I'm pretty sure I've only got one person in residence in my brain.
One more thing... I tried to remember the last time I made my H feel like I wanted to tear off his shirt and run my nails down his back...
I am guessing this would be the equivalent to me dreaming about getting some flowers from H??
What an eye opener for me. I can give all the reasons in the world why it is not my fault I did not make him feel this way, but the fact is, I did not make him feel this way.
Give us more PP! What else did I not make him feel??
Thanks for posting here Mona, your posts always bring a smile to my face. I'm not a woman so I have no idea if the necklace was planned or not. I do know I'm not supposed to listen to anything my W says, but that's hard as it seems to be matching her actions. She may have switched impetus's a few times, but has never wavered from walking towards D.
The nails and flowers thing...I used to buy my W flowers all the time, such a simple gesture. Kindness like that shouldn't need to be planned IMO. As for the nails, well, there has to be desire, and from what I learned last week, polarity. Opposition almost. If not, it has to be designed in the bedroom, but I think it obviously helps if both parties are willing.
God bless my W, she was also experimental and creative in a role playing etc. That wasn't what I thought was lacking. It was the effect of it all. It's one thing to get turned on because there's a room full of gimmicks. It's another to catch a passing glance and subsequently feel like the room is going to explode. Sure that doesn't happen on a daily basis forever, but I'm not sure for her it ever happened because of anything I did - planned or otherwise.
A good part of that was my fault though, when we got together I was coming off a very unhealthy sex life. I've talked to other men this year in similar positions, when you're that scared of intimacy, it makes the physical intimacy nearly impossible. One man I spoke with at length said, "I've been with my girlfriend for 9 years now and we're having some problems. Sure I cheat on her a lot, but it's only because I can only have sex with someone that I don't like." Woah!
I wasn't quite that bad when I started dating my W prior to us getting M'd, but I was close. So a lot of this is on me. Intimacy was terrifying for a lot of reasons, one key one being that I didn't understand what it meant. She was asking me to speak Chinese, which was both scary as hell, and something I didn't know how to do.
That's probably a long way of saying, "Everyone needs to get their needs met Mona." You need flowers, more importantly you need what the flowers represent - recognition, appreciation, and a dash of spontaneous love. Who knows if your H needs nails run down his back. I know I do. At least every once in a while.
PP
M 39 W 36 T5 M3 BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day Served 9/15 D finalized 6/17
