And I Do Believe It Could Be; Something Good Has Begun

[HaWho]

He will not ask a single question when I return. I am pretty sure he will ignore me completely.

He may probe the kids so I will be very careful in what I divulge there. But they are kids, it is easy to say: who cares about me, how have you been the last 2 days?

The question is: will he tit for tat me. I can see him going away the next week!!!

[job]

If he does go away, wish him a nice time away and leave it at that. They do have a way of wanting to "one up us". They can become very competitive at times.

Find the humor in it and that will help you in the days ahead.

[AJM]

I see what you're getting at HW. I think you're on the right path, for what it's worth. I recall feeling much the same way you do when I went through it. I described it as paying the price for somebody else's sins. Was it her FOO? Was it her new friends? Her new husband? Somebody else? In the end, that wasn't important to figure out and just kept me from seeing the rest of the Monet.

Something that tends to be important for dealing with a MLCr's - consistency. They tend to put us under a microscope while ignoring their own actions. It's kind of odd, but it seems logical in that they focus on themselves.

To that end, keep your answers as minimal and straight to the point as you can about what you're doing. Even an honest mistake is a means for starting a fight and it's just not worth it. Additionally, it gives them a sense of "mystery" about us if they don't really know. Just note, as job mentioned, he'll sulk for some time after.

It seems to me that it's fairly logical that they take out their FOO issues on those closest. They feel safe to do so or just can't hold it in any longer. Either way, they do tend to do that. I see that as a badge of honor, if not an unpleasant one. Because it means they are comfortable enough with us to do so. And I have seen where it is what they need to do in order to resolve those FOO issues.

That said, you may come through this and decide that you don't want anything to do with him any longer. That's a risk he needed to take. And one that you took whether you asked for it or not.

You can wait it out and see what he becomes, if he becomes something else, or you can leave. You always have that choice and therefore the power in the relationship. Try not to forget that in your journey because you are nowhere near powerless. That's important to remember and see. However, what you do with that power is your choice and one you won't make lightly (I can see that already.)

You are right, he has to do the work. Let him. Give him the space and time to do so. If he comes through, and decides he'd like to make amends, he will go to great lengths to do so. That'll be harder than what you are doing now, for perspective. If he doesn't, and you end up walking away, consider this practice for that eventuality. No time wasted either way.

Do they remember? In my case, my ex seems to still be remembering all these years later. I stopped really listening years ago when she remarried, but there have been indications as recently as today. I wouldn't trade places with them. Not for all the rice in China.

Can they be mean? And then some. Can they forget that? On the outside perhaps, and to some degree yes. For them, it can be like a different person said it. But they do remember the painful looks they received, the feeling they had when they said it, and how it impacted you. It's just that it's a delayed reaction, sometimes for many years. 10, 20, and then some. Often, by the time they assimilate the feelings and resolve the issues, if they do, it's so many years later that we are long gone and not listening. I think that's why there is so little information for scientists to study. It happens on such a long continuum, that it is next to impossible to do so in one career.

The big difference between MLC and general marital problems is timing. For instance, I was told by the MC that most of her clients come to her with 10+ years of problems. In my case, and many others, things were good, by both our admission, a few months prior to BD. Most here are a few years of discord that seem relatively minor.

I agree with job. If he wants to do tit for tat, then let him. Set a high bar though. You'll get back a mirror of what you've done, albeit a fun house mirror I used that in how I treated the kids. At first. Because she was absent from them. But then I let that go and started just doing things for me regardless of what she did. She didn't deal with it well, but I wasn't interested by then. I stopped watching the comings and goings of her life and just made sure the kids were ok. She still tries, I notice, but it's not important to me. It's more important that the kids have a mom and I have my sanity and life.

In the end, I wouldn't trade the experience. I wish it had turned out differently, HW. But I am also much more present in my life because of it. I am grateful for it. I am happy and able to do what my grandmother always advised - I am able to be alone with my thoughts and be content with that. That's worth a gold mine if you ask me. Because you can't save everyone

Peace,
AJ

[HaWho]

The thing is, he already spent sooooo many months running all around. BORING!! He is playing MLC whack-a-mole trying to make himself happy. He has beaten "the run around like a maniac mole" to death. What else does he have in that MLC bag of tricks?!?

And he knows I am over all that. That all ended the Saturday morning I smiled, turned to him and said: "you should go out tonight and have fun!"

That took the wind right out of his sails. And the look of shock on his face was priceless. That was the last Saturday he ran around like he was 18. He deduced that was a cheeseless tunnel.

Now he is onto watching Woody Allen movies--just what you want your H in MLC doing. He used to hate Woody Allen--refused to watch even one of his movies. Talk about the opposite personality coming out to play. Obviously those themes now resonate with him these days; I am quite certain.

[AJM]

Eek. I'm still hate Woody Allen movies. Never saw why people liked them.

What else does he have in that MLC bag of tricks?!?

be careful what you wish for, HW. He is compelled to follow this path for a while and will find ways to try and find his "happiness" or ask Oprah to 'splain it to him

AJ

[mleigh4]

I agree with Job, what your H said about impacting the boys is just PA BS. He wants to know your plans and because you are not telling him, he lashes back with guilt. Don't bite, you would only be letting the PA behavior win.

You and your boys know you are doing nothing wrong and that you are there for them and always have been. That is what counts!

[HaWho]

Thanks Mleigh. I see the pattern, for sure. He has the PA playbook down pat.

AJ - Ditto- I hate Woody Allen movies, too. Of course there should be sequels to his films. Where is the MLC guy 10 years after he has left wife for the 18 year old with whom he cheated?

As for what else he can do, trust me when I say the contents of "the letter" hardened me. An IC with decades of experience was rendered speechless. Words are my LL and he did a whopper of a job there.

[BrightFuture]

HaWho, I’ve been reading your thread for a while. A lot of good points here. The discussion about your H’s childhood made me think again about my H. I know he has the issues from his childhood. He was 12 and the youngest of 4, when his Dad left his Mom. H “had” to grow up very fast. He always talked about this like it was a great thing for him. He was trying to keep up with his older siblings and doing things that kids in his age didn’t do. I think that he doesn’t realize that he is actually missing that part of his childhood, being a 12 year old, and not jumping to 16-17 years of age.

I also think that I underestimated the impact H’s parent’s divorce made on him. I think it is a lot deeper. To AJ’s point “What took years to build up to, takes years to unwind”, I think it took years for my H to finally start being kind to his Mom. I think he resented her, despised her, rejected her for years, even thought she was not the one to walk out of the marriage. She was devastated. On the other side, H was treating his Dad a lot better. Go figure...

AJ, I love your posts. There are a lot of good thoughts and a lot of information for me to process.

HaWho, I’m very curious about the rest of the going away story. I think that your H will “retaliate”, LOL.

[HaWho]

Hi BrightFuture- nice to hear from you. Yes, AJ is amazing--his insight is priceless. I am so fortunate to have his advice as well as Job's (my guardian angel here on earth), Mleigh's, KML's and LouR's. Thank you all. I hope I can give back.

BrightFuture-Interesting point you make about the "gaps" in these MLCers childhoods and the need to go back. If it is not too personal of a question, did your H transfer a lot of those feelings for his mother onto you or other women in his life?

My H feels the exact same way about his mother. Unfortunately, she truly did make some awful/devastating decisions when her kids were young. She is a different woman today, but those were formative years for my H. After all, studies show those first few years are the stuff of life. There is no erase board there. It makes me hug and kiss my kids more. She did a tremendous amount of damage. Truly my H has done an AMAZING job holding it together given his history with her.

So much of life is luck: the era you are born in, the country, the parents you are given, etc.

[BrightFuture]

Hey HaWho, yes, I believe that H transferred some of his feelings about his mother into me, when he started his MLC. I think was truly trying to be a good husband and I always thought that he had some decent winsome in life.

It is really a very complicated story. His Mother loved him very much, I found the cards and journals and notes from her when he was in the Navy. She was sending him the gifts for holidays and b-days. He rejected these gifts for some time. I think he stopped doing this when we got married. I’ve heard some comments about his Mother over the years, but I don’t think he ever told me the entire story. Like I said, his mother was devastated when her H left and then married OW. There was some ugly stuff going on, I think she was suicidal and tried to get her H back by stoking him and going to his house, or something like that. Later, when she remarried, she sent H to some program, because she “declared” him a drug addict (he was about 15 and smoking pot at that time), which he thought was wrong.

H never revealed much detail about that, even when I asked. I think he’s been trying to bury it very hard for all these years.