More answers for Vanilla"s questions. Read if you struggle with insomnia.
Were you trying to compete with FIL?
I wanted to prove to wife I was as good as her father. I wanted to prove to my FIL I was worthy of his daughter.
So, this wasn't for yourself, or to satisfy your life needs, but to meet your WW objectives and to be worthy in FILs eyes. Do you consider that in light of later responses you respected FIL as a father figure in your life? That he symbolised an ideal for you and that pleasing him satisfied that desire?
------------------------------------------- Where did the image of a man come from?
My image came from me. My father was not a man I respected. I thought I should be the stoic hero type from a hollywood movie.
This is a wonderful insight, which super hero or combination would you like to be? Which superhero powers did you want then? Which would you like to be now? I believe this represents your idealised self, and would be very useful to know. Very useful indeed.
Do you see a distinction between men and women in the workplace? In the home?
I see no distinction men and women in the workplace or in the home.
This is also very important, very important because there are fewer barriers in your parenting. Fantastic position to work from.
------------------------------------------------------------- OK, so when you say much happier are you still sacrificing your potential for expediency?
I am need to work to support my family. I am working towards a pension. I enjoy what I do. This is all good.
Security is important to you, more important than your role? Would you ever round hole square peg for security? That is a trade off you would be prepared to accept?
----------------------------------------------------- Did this create resentment which leaked into your home life?
I brought resentments home with my FIL salesman job. I have no resentments with my current job.
This doesn't seem to fit, and I am confused. There seems to be spillage unless that was hangover resentment.
------------------------------------------------- To what extent are you now unable to find the time to develop your skills?
I am improving my skills at work an in classes in the evening.
This indicates to me that there was enormous growth and learning from your experience with working with FIL. That when presented with a sitch, if it isn't working for you that you can turn it around. The techniques are clearly there and the insights in your work life to develop new strategies. An important skill set to have.
-------------------------------------------------------- what measures are you taking to invest in your skill sets, to get yourself excited by your life and work?
I am improving my skill set so that when I retire I can start a new career with my own business.
That is a complete life plan. Can I ask if you live in your dreams, in the future, rather than the now? How flexible are your plans? This is something I understand as I am doing the same. I see myself with a role until I am 80, although now I am beginning to look to enjoying today.
---------------------------------------------- What are the plans for you?
I plan to move to an different area of the country and work as an artist.
So why do you need to move? How will this affect your family?
--------------------------------------------------- How will you ensure that you put your development in these areas before all else?
I am passionate about my interests and prefer doing them over almost everything.
Is there any way you can share this enthusiasm?
------------------------------------------------------- The answer may lie further back, did you do school subjects you didn't like? Try to please parents, teachers rather than having best fit? If so why?
I did not reach my full academic potential because my father pushed school hard and I pulled back and did not apply myself to my studies. I pleased myself by not giving my father the grades he wanted me to get.
You self sabotaged? As a child or teenager, was a perversity or a rebellion? This is a odd combo, rebellion against dad but pleasing strategy for FIL. Is this a pattern for you, pleasing some, and not others? If so how do you make the distinction?
------------------------------------------- What dreams did you have for you when you were a child?
I wanted to have money. My father was a civil servant so we were not wealthy.
I confess again to confusion, one of your cores seems to be security, civil service with its pensions seems secure. In essence isn't this more secure than FIL who lost his business? Did you lose respect for FIL when this happened?
-------------------------------------------------- What did you really want to do?
I wanted to be an architect, I like to design.
I like that you know this, very much. How much effort goes into this?
----------------------------------------------- Are your desires in your work or hobbies?
My work and my hobbies are one in the same, just different mediums.
This is wonderful, are you including your family in any way sharing your enthusiasm?
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Apologies lost my wifi again and the rest of the post didn't post! The last bit should have read:
This is wonderful, are you including your family in any way sharing your enthusiasm? I am asking this because I see this an obvious source of PMA, a useful 180. So knowing that which excites you would be a useful PMA source. A little imagination and invention could create some interesting opportunities. In what way could we find PMA opportunities in it? My aged Pa was an engineer, I loved working on the car with him, decorating, repairing etc. It was his enthusiasm (not mine) but I really loved from being tiny learning and growing with Aged Pa. My gran loved cooking, I learned chopping, frying, salads etc from her, my love of great food comes from her. A close friend took photos with her dad etc. My sense is that this is going to be the source of some great PMA.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 09/29/1511:17 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I like you Vanilla, you make me feel good after reading you posts. I will answer your new questions most probably Thursday. I think my answers will interest you. Thank you for taking time out of your life to show me some kindness and compassion.
Azzork, Photoka and Avanti, I am thinking about my goals and will bounce them off you in a day or two. Tomorrow will be a very busy day.
I went to my IC yesterday. She thinks that intellectually I am managing my relationship with my wife well. My hat is off to all of you for this. She went on to say that emotionally I am deeply hurt by all the things my wife has said and done these last few years. I have to agree with her. Between the hurt she has inflicted and the isolation of the silent treatment, I feel great sorrow.
I was really sad before and was going to post about it. Before writing, I posted on some other threads and began to empathize with all of you and your situations. I believe that by helping other LBS's you can help heal yourself. I still feel sad but not alone. I have all of you and this makes it bearable.Thanks for your support.
Yesterday I hear my wife talking to my daughter in the kitchen. Having a happy conversation about what my wife's day was like at work. I walk into the kitchen and she stops talking. She goes silent. I drink my water and leave. She then starts talking again.
When did I become the enemy?
Today I walk in on my son and daughter resolving a dispute with my wife's help. I drink a glass of water, sit and listen. After its resolved I ask my daughter a question to clarify part of what I heard. My wife gets up and leaves. It seems she can't even be in the same room with me.
When did I become the enemy?
I respect her boundaries. I do not pursue her. I have become a better man/father. When did I become the enemy?
Mutatio, you are reading WW mind. How do you know she didn't urgently need to make a call? X go to the loo? Make her escape because she is uncomfortable. I see no malicious intent in her requirement for privacy. She has sacked you as her H, that isn't making you the enemy. If you keep pushing and pushing, critiquing non verbally or puppy dogging you will make yourself an annoying bee that is chasing her.
Her silence seems to be mainly the need for privacy as she sees you perusing, she will run. It will have to do with her feelings not yours.
Let her handle the issues with your children when she is doing such a great job and even if in your eyes she isn't, sounds like she was doing well anyway. If you need to ask or clarify, later on would be better, although personally I would just nod in agreement. I think I would feel if I were mom you were interfering too, be tempted to say " I got this" "don't undermine me". Heck I would leave rather than be sarky to you in front of the kids too. That shows self restraint and a need for peace.
A different way might be to observe then later validate "I like the way you handled xyz sitch today"
You are chasing her away. And remember beliefs such as " she thinks I am the enemy" are self fulfilling pink elephants. Do you want to be the enemy? Thought not! 180 needed in my view.
Just my 2c
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 10/01/1508:07 AM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Mutatio, you are reading WW mind. How do you know she didn't urgently need to make a call? X go to the loo? Make her escape because she is uncomfortable. I see no malicious intent in her requirement for privacy. She has sacked you as her H, that isn't making you the enemy. If you keep pushing and pushing, critiquing non verbally or puppy dogging you will make yourself an annoying bee that is chasing her.
Her silence seems to be mainly the need for privacy as she sees you perusing, she will run. It will have to do with her feelings not yours.
Let her handle the issues with your children when she is doing such a great job and even if in your eyes she isn't, sounds like she was doing well anyway. If you need to ask or clarify, later on would be better, although personally I would just nod in agreement. I think I would feel if I were mom you were interfering too, be tempted to say " I got this" "don't undermine me". Heck I would leave rather than be sarky to you in front of the kids too. That shows self restraint and a need for peace.
A different way might be to observe then later validate "I like the way you handled xyz sitch today"
You are chasing her away. And remember beliefs such as " she thinks I am the enemy" are self fulfilling pink elephants. Do you want to be the enemy? Thought not! 180 needed in my view.
Thank you V and V. I am surprised, I did not see that. It seems so obvious to me now. I will be on guard for that behavior in the future. Thank you again.
Mutatio, I was about to agree with you, and empathize about the silent treatment and then I read V's post. I have some examples in my sitch that mirror yours exactly. And V's take on it does shed new light on the dynamics.
Do you consider that in light of later responses you respected FIL as a father figure in your life?
Yes I do, he is one of the wisest men I know.
That he symbolised an ideal for you and that pleasing him satisfied that desire?
Yes it did.
This is a wonderful insight, which super hero or combination would you like to be?
I would like to be a combination of Kwai Chang Caine (Kung Fu) and John Wayne.
Which superhero powers did you want then?
A wise strong leader.
Which would you like to be now?
A wise content man.
Security is important to you, more important than your role?
Security is more important then my role. If you mean role is type of job.
Would you ever round hole square peg for security?
If you mean compromise on role for security. Not until I get my pension in 3-7 years.
That is a trade off you would be prepared to accept?
My pension is my employment goal. I will improve my skills for my work life after pension.
Can I ask if you live in your dreams, in the future, rather than the now?
I live for the future.
How flexible are your plans?
If you mean plans for the future then somewhat flexible.
I plan to move to an different area of the country and work as an artist.
So why do you need to move?
Cost of living, preferred weather conditions, scenic beauty.
How will this affect your family?
My wife may or may not be my wife so unclear. My eldest daughter is graduated from college. My other daughter will graduate college by then. My son the youngest will be in college. I will miss them and try to have them move near me. I would try to start a new life, clean slate, a little scary though.
I am passionate about my interests and prefer doing them over almost everything. Is there any way you can share this enthusiasm?
I try to share my interest with my daughter and my son. We recently went to a sculpture garden. My wife even came with. That was nice.
I did not reach my full academic potential because my father pushed school hard and I pulled back and did not apply myself to my studies. I pleased myself by not giving my father the grades he wanted me to get.
You self sabotaged?
Yes
As a child or teenager, was a perversity or a rebellion?
As a child, it was rebellion.
This is a odd combo, rebellion against dad but pleasing strategy for FIL. Is this a pattern for you, pleasing some, and not others?
Not a pattern.
If so how do you make the distinction?
My father emotional abused my mother. I watched him hit her once. He bullied me. I have no respect for my father. My FIL is a gentleman, a leader, a mensch.
I wanted to have money. My father was a civil servant so we were not wealthy.
I confess again to confusion, one of your cores seems to be security, civil service with its pensions seems secure. In essence isn't this more secure than FIL who lost his business?
I saw my father and our family struggle with money over the years. I wanted to go into business and make more money. When I got married I took the job with my FIL to make more money. It was a less secure situation but I was drawn to the money.
Did you lose respect for FIL when this happened?
My FIL had retired and his brother was in charge. The brother was in a horrible car crash where his daughter died and he nearly did. He came back to the business but was not the same after that. The other thing that killed the business was 9/11.
I wanted to be an architect, I like to design. I like that you know this, very much. How much effort goes into this?
I love design, I love finding solutions to problems. I do this at work and at home in my spare time. I do this when I day dream.
My work and my hobbies are one in the same, just different mediums. This is wonderful, are you including your family in any way sharing your enthusiasm?
They do not have my interests although I feel my eldest would like to do things with me.
This is wonderful, are you including your family in any way sharing your enthusiasm?
I try to go to museums or art exhibitions involving art or sculpture. Scheduling makes things difficult.
In what way could we find PMA opportunities in it?
I think you are on to something here. I will give this some thought. This could be very good for me and my children. It may help me live in the here and now.
Thank you Vanilla for your compassion and willingness to help me.
