wife STILL in the tunnel..more fog.

[Mach1]

Mach1
I am standing because I beleive in her.
In my heart and soul I know she is fighting to break free of her past issues.
We are so connected , when she was pregnant I felt contractions.,, also gained a few pounds as well.
We communicated with glances. Enjoyed everything the same. Same tastes , same ideas, same dreams.
So I am standing for me.

The reason that I asked you that, wasn't to upset you, or make light of anything...

I want you to see that standing is YOUR choice, not her's or anyone else's....it is yours.

You stand because it's the right thing to do....for you.

To give yourself the best chance at having another opportunity at a relationship with this Woman.

And there is a difference between standing, and just waiting...

What I see from you, is that you are just waiting. You are waiting for something to be different, something to change within her. For her to just "snap out of this".

As Job pointed out, you are expecting rational behavior from an irrational person. Einstein has defined insanity as Doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting different results...

How is that different from what you are doing right now ?

Is that any different from the past ???

I spent some time reading this thread, and there were a few things that drew me to you.

I am going to use a few of your words, and I want you to tell me what they mean to you...

I allowed her...

I let her...

I will allow this...

I told her...


What does that look like to you, if you were to read those from somebody else ???


Another thing that concerns me, is that you are starting to show some signs of letting you anger rule your emotions. That is what I was driving at earlier.

Often times, and especially as early into this as you are, you will make choices and decisions from your emotions. That is exactly what your MLCer is doing also. Typically, the results of those choices are not pretty.

Your focus right now, is clearly on her. What she is doing, how she is, who she is with....

Your focus is also what, when, where, why , and how she interacts with the kids. And it's okay to be aware of that, and you should be aware, just not focused.

The emotional side of that is....that you make judgment calls on how terrible she is acting, who she is with, what she is doing. And believe me, a MLCer is pretty good at knowing how to perpetuate the emotion. They are all about that.

So while you say that she is spiraling downward, what you don't see, is that you are too....every time that you buy into her program, you are exactly where SHE needs you to be.

For right now, I would say that you need to find YOUR center, and your balance. You need to back away from trying to fix this with her, and for the kids. Especially trying to fix her relationship with the kids. With some of your conversations, you are dangerously close to Parental Alienation. And you really don't want to go down that road.

Going back to why you are standing....

Some people choose this path out of fear..

Some out of guilt...

Some out of feeling a sense of superior morality...

Some simply for the children....


I ask you again,....why are you standing???

As the person that she is today...you believe in that person ??

Do you really know that she is fighting through this ???

Were you really that connected ? I mean, you didn't see or feel this coming did you ???

Just glances ? I mean, I get what you are saying...most of us here felt the same way about our spouses.....

But what if....your glance meant something different ???

What if ....she really didn't like her eggs scrambled ???

Maybe....just maybe....

Each of you got lost through this, and THAT is what she is struggling to find ???

And maybe YOU are too ????

So I am standing for me.

Best thing that you have said yet....

So what does that ^^^ mean to you ??

What does that encapsulate ??

How will you know when you get there ???

Who is Irish.....without all of the baggage ???



As a friend once said ....

Stand, but don't stand still....

[Irish M]

Hi Mach1
Much appreciated your input and advise

Yes I am new in this. Learning as I go and getting great advise as well

A few comments above threw me off.

Parental alienating ... I Have done more to bring my W and D's together than I should of. I also made it very clear to W that it is up to her from now on.
Not sure if you read all the details of what she did to them. Not many parents would of allowed that to go as far as it did.

Yes I felt something was off a couple of months ago. I knew something was coming just didn't know the magnitude of it when it hit. She was one that was all over me until the day she walked out. I would wake up at 5 in the morning ... Being very quiet not to wake her.. She would get up anyway to sit with me or go out with me to take pictures( I'm an amature photographer)
When i'd work in my home office, she would be right next to me talking about her day and about our D's, or would be working on her things.

I've learned by reading many stories on this that she has journey to do for her.

Myself I am on mine. I know I'm not perfect. I know what I need to improve and find in myself.

I did GAL. I'm actually going out tonight. My D's picked out my shirt.
I didn't miss a beat with my D's this summer. Took them camping movies, BBQs , road trips, amusement parks etc.

My D's have also changed .. More responsible , studying more for school, better choices in friends.

If I am hurting now it's no longer because I miss my W. The person she is is not my W. I wouldnt be married to that person. How she acts and what she says is what pushes me and drives me to NC. It's because my D's want their old Mom back.

The D's cut her off before I did because of what she did to them.

I used her illness as an excuse. I don't anymore.

Why I stand. I stand for me. I stand for my W that is in this monster.
I stand for the belief that God will guide her through her fog. And I will be a much better father and person. If she wakes up and wants in our life , we will decide if she is welcome.

I will never turn my back on her if she needs help when and if she crashes. Even if it's in 2 - 3 - 5 or 10 years. The 17 years with her she deserves that much.

If I timeline it I know it's wrong. No MLC is the same. I just want to mentally prepare myself of the what ifs also understand the most I can about all this.

I really appreciate your post.you really know how to get a guy to think.
Cheers!!

[AJM]

I just want to mentally prepare myself of the what ifs also understand the most I can about all this

You don't see it yet, but what you can do is let her go about her way and live your own life. You said the words, but it's obvious that you don't yet feel them.

That's how it works though. It takes time and work. Is what it is.

You're going out. To do what?

AJ

[Irish M]

Hi AJ :-)
Hope you are doing well.

I say those words because I am the type that once I study, read and understand the situation fully or at least in MLC cases .... I can then let go.
If I'm always wondering the why then my mind takes over.

I am not necessarily saying I need to study and understand my W.
I read all stories, understand the Desease and easier to walk away and know the signs of too early returns, manipulation, monstering etc

If we don't then I risk to fall into a trap or do and say the wrong thing.

I am cut off from W. Don't know where she lives. I have no FaceBook connection to her. My D's decided for themselves to do the same.

I see her in mediation today. Hopefully finalise all the paper work. After that the vanisher will vanish and do her journey.

Last night I went out to the old part of the city with a friend for supper. Great company once again.

Before going out I was with my D's. Helped D13 put blue streaks in her hair. They faded last week due to the chlorine in the pool.
She was so happy. She said to me that I had talent. Lol I guess fathers can do what mothers do..

[Mach1]

Parental alienating ... I Have done more to bring my W and D's together than I should of. I also made it very clear to W that it is up to her from now on.
Not sure if you read all the details of what she did to them. Not many parents would of allowed that to go as far as it did.

And that is part of it as well.

Anything that you do to interfere with their relationship, can be considered alienation. I would ask you to educate yourself on that a bit...

Yes I felt something was off a couple of months ago. I knew something was coming just didn't know the magnitude of it when it hit. She was one that was all over me until the day she walked out. I would wake up at 5 in the morning ... Being very quiet not to wake her.. She would get up anyway to sit with me or go out with me to take pictures( I'm an amature photographer)
When i'd work in my home office, she would be right next to me talking about her day and about our D's, or would be working on her things.

That is pretty typical through MLC. Most times, the MLCer will seem closer in the weeks leading up to the bomb.

They do this to justify their decision to leave the LBS. So when they look into the eyes of a LBS and say " I have tried everything" , and you look at her and say " We haven't tried everything"...

In the eyes of the MLCer, they have. And that closeness leading up to the bomb is their last ditch effort to feel....something, anything.

I've learned by reading many stories on this that she has journey to do for her.

Not every story is the same, nor will it ever be. And I can tell you this....nothing...NOTHING that you read, will ever prepare you for actually walking through the hailstorm...

Why I stand. I stand for me. I stand for my W that is in this monster.
I stand for the belief that God will guide her through her fog. And I will be a much better father and person. If she wakes up and wants in our life , we will decide if she is welcome.

Little advice here....your wife isn't a monster. She is hurting, just as much as you are. And she misses you, just as much as you miss her.

However...

Ever heard that people hurt those that they love the most, the most ???

Yep...that is where you are at. And you are both guilty of it...


Want things to get better ? Then be better.

Regardless of MLC, your actions mean a LOT during these times for her. Make no mistake that she is watching you, and your actions. How you interact, who you interact with, what you say about this, what you say about her.

Nothing you can do right now will change her mind, yet EVERYTHING that you do will change her mind...

So when this is over, how would you like to be remembered ???

Because THAT ^^^, is all that matters right now.

Every interaction that you have, be it with her or whomever.


Be that guy....

If I timeline it I know it's wrong. No MLC is the same. I just want to mentally prepare myself of the what ifs also understand the most I can about all this.

So what can you do, to best employ that ???

[uRworthy]

Irish, in the beginning, we all want to know as much as we can. We read everything we can get our hands on. We talk with people, we watch our spouses.

I know because I was there. Know what I learned the most? We cant understand this because we aren't in one. You know how when something horrific happens, like losing a child or someone getting cancer? We have compassion for them. We feel badly for them. But we cant possibly know how it feels to actually go through that.

So, I let that go. It started to get in the way of the work I needed to do. It took time to release it. But it was really necessary.

Because at the end of the day, this is their journey. They will walk it as they do. And me understanding it wouldn't change it.

It is what is right now. This is something that was destined to happen. No amount of forethought or love or anything else could have stopped it.

Understanding that..holding onto that..will help you through.

I don't have many regrets about how I walked all of this besides how I handled it financially, except this...I wish I had learned to let go sooner. I wish I listened better to what people told me.

Because when we let go, we get to the good stuff. Yep, you read that right. We get to become who we were meant to be without the "noise" of a MLC. We get to concentrate on being our best selves and we get to be there for our children.

I want to say this about your children and their mother. When I was going through all of this, I made myself a promise. The promise was that I would cause no harm between my son and my xh's relationship. That didn't mean there wouldn't be any. It just meant that I would not have any part in it.

So, I allowed their relationship to unfold. I said not one bad word about his dad. I made not one face. I never rolled my eyes or sighed or anything else that would indicate anything to my son about my feelings towards his father. That relationship was theirs to forge without any interference from me. Where the relationship wound up was out of my hands.

I will tell you that their relationship isn't what it once was, nor what it could have been, but, they are close again. And my son has thanked me more than once for allowing him to have a relationship with his father without having to worry about how it may affect me.

The sooner you can let her go, the better. It is in acceptance, that we find peace. Love her enough to do that and love yourself enough, too.

[Irish M]

Letting W handle her relationship with the D's, I have done that . I have handed over the keys to W.

I have never spoken bad about their mom. I've only listened to their concerns and even then always finished with mommy loves you.

They don't want to see her , their choice. W told them just the other day she will not call,email or try to contact them. It's up to them to reach out to her. She deserves that respect.

I think the list of things she did to them is overdue. Now keep in mind she never did these things before

Yelled at them and swore
Said she wanted lipo suction to erase what they did to her body
Didn't want to be a mom
Told them to feed themselves she's not their slave
Drove irrationaly with them nearly causing an accident
Offered them alcohol
Asked them to show her how to twerk
Said i was abusive and controlling to the kids
Called the cops on me and the police sad no issue and left
Cancelled her payments for future college fund
Offered them pot ( she never smoked in her life)
Sex talk about guys
Tried to transfer funds from their college fund to her
Told them to shut the F up
Lied to them
Took off on them and made them walk miles home
Sold their wii for money
Stole my d,-15 tablets
Hasn't seen them in over 45 days
Doesn't call
Never asks them how they are
Missed both of there birthdays
Told them they need a mental doctor
Got drunk in front of them
She abandoned them
Gave up custody . She should have them every other weekend. Still has not asked to see them or have them over. She skipped out ofher Appartment after 3 weeks. Now living with OM

So I guess this is normal. May 30 2015 she loved them more than anything
June 1 ..... Done with us all


Today .... They are not a priority

Today was mediation day. she is planning a bankruptcy. She accepted my offer on the house.
She looked sad again, shaking her head a lot
Voice cracked when I said hello.

Once the mediator came in talking about money.... She monstered. Yelling, at me for nothing.
I stayed calm. This is business now and that's my strength. I am well protected and she isn't getting much. She will have to advise the bankruptcy office that she will get funds in October from me buying her out. Not my problem if she doesn't . Someone will collect anything she owes from her. I will be in the clear.

She started saying her mom has cut her off and sister doesn talk to her. Blamed it on me . Of course. I haven't spoken to her mom in over 60 days. Said I manipulated everyone to cut her off. Wow I didn't know I was so powerful.

She mentioned she moved . The mediator wanted her new address
She said she didnt want me to know where. I left the room.
I said if ever the girls visit her I want to know where first. For their safety.

All in all went well. I should be divorced in 3 months.
W keeps forgetting important files. Delays the process

I know divorce is bad.. But It's just a paper.

I also got wind of who she is dating/living with. affair down big time. But I knew that from the no gas in car thing.

[job]

Irish,
I'm sorry you had to go thru that yesterday, but you are right...divorce is just a piece of paper. I know that you don't want to hear this, but for now, you are far better off having everything separated on paper.

They do love to blame us for everything that goes wrong in their lives. They don't like to look in the mirror and admit that maybe they had a hand in what is happening to them. She'll get over it in time. I'm really not surprised that the monster came out yesterday, but she felt like she was being pinned to the wall on so many things and she had to lash out. However, I'm glad you remained calm.

Again, I'm so sorry that you and your daughters are having to deal w/this stuff.

[Irish M]

Thanks Job
Also go a call from SIL
She said thank you to me for being strong and taking care of the D's
It's better they don't see W anyway in this state.
FIL and MIL also realize now that W is in another world.
I said I will visit with both of them soon so they can see the D's

SIL wants to write a letter to W about her behaviour. I told her she may not read it or even understand it at this point but it is up to her.
She's afraid she'll push her over the edge into regret and she'll harm herself. So she's chosing her words wisely.

It's confirmed she is smoking pot and hash. So I guess self medicating sex,drugs and alcohol....

I'm heading out with the D's to pick up a new dog this weekend . We are 3 excited LBS's

[AJM]

Irish, if you sit back and look for a second, you do know this person is not your W, right? An alien of sorts.

As time goes on, don't take it personally. Don't feel sad when the divorce is final -it's a point in time. Don't feel guilty if you feel glad when it comes in either. You'll be surprised at how it will relieve you of some of the stress since it marks the end of that chapter. Not the book, but the chapter. In that sense, it's just a piece of paper and a point in time. And certainly not the worst she's done toward you, ya know?

They don't want to see her , their choice. W told them just the other day she will not call,email or try to contact them. It's up to them to reach out to her. She deserves that respect.

As if your W hasn't said one thing and done another, right? She doesn't deserve that respect if you ask me. I don't care what else is going on in her life or her head, personally. Having been through exactly that, I have zero respect for people that take their anger out on people to the degree they take it out on their own kids.

Saying that, I do recognize that as a bigger problem with her. And I do have compassion for her. Just not respect. I'm capable of different emotions, just like you

I always took the stance that she can do to me what she likes. I'm a big boy and can make my own decisions. The kids? That's their mom. Keep not saying bad things about their mom out of respect for the kids. You'll be tested. But you do also have to protect them (you seem to be) and some honesty will be appropriate at a later date. Not opinion, but honesty.

Congrats on the dog! Sounds like fun. And it sounds like the family understands exactly what the story is. It may even be familiar to them, unfortunately. I remember that moment with my ex's family (parts of it). It was at least helpful to me to know that with all the other crazy stuff going on at the time.

It took a long time to see it for me, but it was never about me. And it's not about you. While sad, and grieving is something you'll have to do, it matters Irish.

Try not to watch the train wreck. It won't make you happy to see it.

AJ