Any differences between WAH's and WAW's? (2)

[Shrike]

Julie,

I wish I had some great advice to give you right now

I think your coach is saying be friendly because it will help YOU be more positive. I keep forgetting that this all isn't about our spouses anymore. It about who we are and who we can become.

You can be angry with him all you want but its not going to help things either way. I know the anger masks the pain, but when the pain breaks back through it does so with a vengeance.. at least for me.

You should still protect yourself. Let go of expectations for him. He may or may not have motives that are less than amicable. But you cant read his mind. Do what is going to make you the best version of you. Set yourself up for success.

I wish I could just have a db coach in my ear telling me advice. because as soon as I walk away from reading all this. I slip back into the negative emotions. So we have to DB ourselves. Be our own coaches. Yell at ourselves to get back up and keep on the positive side of life.

[Rouky]

Hi Julie, I have been reading your thread with great interest as I feel my situation is identical to your ( apart my H had/ has an A). I know it's hard but try to shift the focus from him to you. What hurst the most is being in limbo.

Do you want a D? If not then don't think about it, and try to find things to do each day to take your mind of the situation. If he wants a D, he'll have to file for it. Call me naive but I also don't want to raise your hope too high, but if a spouse really want to check out of a M, they'll find means and ways to do it.

My H husband was determine to cut ties with his dad. He has done it. He also determine to cut ties with his ex-partner, he has done it ( virtually no contact with her, unless it's about their child). So I believe if he wanted a D, he'd initiate it. One of my friend thinks that H don't file for D because they are lazy. I do believe if someone REALLY wants something they can do it.

I pushed my H to file for D, but still waiting to hear from him. Fear pushes us to do awful things, so turn the wheel round. You have been looking after your kids on your own now, so you know you'll be fine with that. The financial side will settle by itself.
I know that's not you want to hear right now but unfortunately a quick fix won't work. We all need to learn how to be patient. You are on your journey to better you, and I'm afraid your H must do it too! Probably not at the same pace as you.

You are doing very well as you are saying that you are not on medication, then you are able to get up every morning and look after your beautiful twins. This shows great character as many people won't be able to do what you are doing now. Keep having faith.

Thinking of you :-)

What are you plans for today? Me baking with kids, then taking my dog for a walk. Simple things but they make me happy.

[JulieH]

The big challenge is that you're hurting. When you're hurting it's really hard to see beyond yourself, and it's hard not to be angry at the person you feel is causing you that pain. But that's real life. I've realized that part of being in a mature relationship is behaving in accordance with your beliefs even when you don't feel like it.

That means standing by your M even when you are sick of it.
That means treating your H respectfully even when you don't feel he deserves it.

These are 180s. Because I'm guessing that during the M you didn't do these things. An H's biggest need is for the approval of their W, and often measure this by sex life. If you judged him and found him lacking and withheld his deepest emotional and physical needs because you were angry...maybe this is a good 180.

Yes i am very hurt and very angry. I was awake late last night thinking about the past few years. My husband was being pulled in a lot of directions. He had the stress of his job, his father died and his mother was asking him for a lot of help, he had his own hobbies and errands that he needed to take care of and then me and the kids wanted his attention. It was hard for him to balance everything and he communicated this to me many times. I often felt that me and the kids were last on the priority list. I realized that we were in fact last on the priority list because we were the first to go when things got difficult for him. He left us and has not been financially contributing fairly. And I am so hurt and so angry. On the other hand, if i had looked upon our relationship more as a team, and was more understanding to his dilemma maybe he would have actually put us at the top of his list? I felt like i was competing with his mom and his job, and if i had acted a little differently we would not have been obligations but fun times.i guess i just did not have the tools and was unable to separate myself from the situation

Don't judge him. Don't treat him disrespectfully. Draw boundaries to avoid getting mistreated, but grow up into a person that can recognize that his pain and his emotions are as important as yours when you're on a TEAM. Look at things through the TEAM lens. Realize that getting what you want and bulldozing him to get it makes the team lose, and that's kind of what happened here.

No. That is exactly what happened here. I definatly bulldozed in order to get what i wanted. It was not fair and backfired cause we both ended up resentful and bitter and never actually had fun. (Zues, out of curiosity, how do you have such good instincts just from reading an individuals posts? Do you have a background in psychology? Im sure this helps you succeed with sales) Right now we are a team when dealing with the boys. I believe we are working well in that aspect. It is hard to know because our communication is just so detached and polite and formal.



To recap, how should you act? Act in accordance with your core beliefs, and I hope those beliefs are about commitment, respect, and the ability to give validity to his needs and feelings to the same extent as yours.

I am currently trying to respect him by giving him space. That is something he has asked for for a long time and something i was not good at giving him. I have avoided all relationship talk. I am asking him his opinion when it comes to the children and making it more a joint effort. But i feel like we are growing more and more apart. I am not sure about the duration of this. I know the boys ask him when he is coming back and he says "i dont know" Is this a good sign that he has never actually said to them a definitive "daddy is not coming back"?

This won't happen overnight, so no need to rush. But create some good checkpoints. How much of the time do you spend thinking of the pain you're in vs. thinking about the pain he's in? How much of the time do you think about where he's being unreasonable, vs. thinking about where you're unreasonable? What are some things you can do to get beyond yourself when you're blinded by pain and anger? These are things to consider.

When i am consumed with anger I actually will read your posts, and i review notes i took during a DB session. I find that they have helped prevent me from saying things that would really destroy any chance at reconciliation. It is hard for me to think that he is in pain, because i feel like he has all the power. I feel like he in the drivers seat. I want to work on reconciliation, he does not know if he wants to. That is where we are. I am living my life like i always did but i feel like he has the power. There is nothing I can do, only things i cannot/should not do.

In the midst of all of this just be your best self, relax, take things one day at a time, give him space without walling him off, let go, and work on yourself to become the best person you can be.




Thank you.

[Ancaire]

Hi Julie! Reading through your thread with interest. Lots of good advice in here I want to apply.

I am a mom of twins, also! I call them our bonus kids...I wanted "just one more" and had identical red-haired twin boys. I deeply love all our children, but these two have been a special kind of fun. All of us had a hand in raising them.

I'm doing some deep thinking today while reading through other situations. I have some decisions to make and need all the input I can get.

[JulieH]

Hi rouky

Thank you for your kind words. And I am Sorry it took so long to reply. I was so busy and tired these past several days. did catch up with your threads, and yes there are so many similarities. I had questions regarding your husband and will come post on your board shortly.

I do place hope on the fact that he has not said the word "divorce" or has actually filed. I am hoping that he just wants change in our marriage. Although I do know that if I pushed him for an answer today he would choose divorce. When you said the financial side will settle by itself, does that mean that you think I should just hold off on pursuing child support? My gut tells me yes, but my family, and most posters think I'm crazy. At times I'm furious more because of the fairness of it then the immediate need for money. He has agreed to help pay for things when i ask. Surprisingly he has also been wanting to see kids more, but like your husband does not want to commit to schedule (which would be so much more helpful to me) he wants to come get them when it's convenient to him.

I have been asking his opinion more when it comes to kids and really following his advise. I really only just started this, but I think its been positive because it is helping me to improve communication skills (at least when it's done via text) and I did not always do this in past. I am going to continue this and see how it goes. He actually does have good insight when it comes to the boys.

[V2pt0]

It's weird but a few days after I had my blow up at him (screaming about child support, and that he abandoned us, and wasn't being good father and other stuff I don't even remember.) we talked on the phone and he was ready to proceed. He told me "this ship has sailed we are just both afraid of change and that I really hurt him"

I feel like No other contact clearly means he is not thinkng of me and wants out.

Hey Julie, I know I have had a blow up of my own, so take this advice from the perspective that I heard about last week and in our counseling session this week. As good as it feels in the moment, it really is not doing you any favors. My H brought up thus and a few other things as irrational/unstable behavior and is why he is fairly determined to not R. I know there is a good reason to cause me to act in this way, but it does not help. He said he was very hurt but my words, though he did say something about considering going to IC because I said he was being a narcissist or sick. Point is your H is likely keeping a running tab on all of your behavior right now. Try to find other ways to channel your anger. Maybe go break some plates in the garage or something.

The statement about not thinking about you is mind-reading and wasted energy. You don't know that is the case and probably very likely not.

Did you ever go talk to L? Can't remember.

[JulieH]

Bt13

I know it was the worst thing I could have done. the truth is, I really do not lose my temper like that. I can count on 1 hand the times I have lost it like that in the entire time we have been together (instead I have always relied on nasty passive aggressive comments ). That child support issue and the anger and hurt over being abandoned and the being in limbo just took its toll. Plus my mom had been really instigating. Plus the day prior he initiated a conversation with me that I might have misinterpreted? It just led to the perfect storm.

In a follow up conversation I initiated 2 days later, he told me he wanted to proceed and that the ship has sailed and that we are only with each other because we are afraid of change. I basically told him how much I wanted to reconcile, and that we made vows, and that we have a family and should not just throw this away, that our problems are salvageable, that I am still,attracted to him, etc... It ended by us agreeing to take more space. At least that's how I think it ended. I told him I would use the space to work on me. I asked him if he loved me and he said "I'm still talking to you". Basically I pursued and did everything I should not have.

It's been 25 days since that incident, and without any pursuing behaviors (including constantly asking if there is other woman...this mad me look needy and insecure). . IM proud of that but surprised at how much time has gone by. All of my interactions have been about the kids or about some thing superficial (and that is minimal). I have been a bit cold and detached but very polite. I have been putting more effort into my appearance (since kids I was always a gym clothes no makeup kind of person). He initiated another pretty offensive conversation about my mom, but I did not lose my temper or make some comments I would have in the past.

I have noticed that he has been waking up earlier and spending more time with the children. he has also been agreeable when I ask him for money for kids.

My DB coach suggested I try to focus on being warm and friendly now and to treat him as I would a friend. She said do not bring up topic of divorce. So this is where I am now...still in limbo, wondering what he is thinking.

[Zues126]

Hey Julie. I've had writers block and haven't had much to offer. Just wanted you to know I'm reading and sending you some good vibrations. If you can just keep from doing anything irreversible and destructive you're doing better than most. I'm glad you have a DB coach and are reflecting, while still working on yourself. Keep it up and keep posting!

[Rouky]

Hi Julie, if your H isn't mentioning D, don't approach the subject as you might hear things that you are not prepared to deal with. Regarding the money I meant that if you keep a log of how much he gives you for the kids, if it comes to worse you can then show to the court that he didn't support you and it can't see the court not pleasing in your favour. I know I sound revengeful but we didn't ask to be in that situation. Yes we have our own flawns but we never acted the way out H did. TBH I see it as a sign of weakness as it is far easier to jump out of the ship before it sinks than working on keeping it a float.

Keep working on you and something good will eventually come out of it.

[JulieH]

Ugh. I am embarrassed and ashamed to have to admit this, but during a conversation about kids, I ended up pursuing by asking him where he was going and then getting upset when he was being evasive. I assumed there was other woman. I ruined the 26 days that I had been doing so well and am mad at myself. It did lead to a relationship talk though. And of course I don't remember how it all went or the order of it. I'm mad at myself though, because now he knows how attached I am. There was no yelling, which is good. But definite disgreement.

I said something along the lines of he should not have to feel like hurting me because he is the one that left us and he has all the power. He disagrees with this and says Im the one that pushed him out with all the hurtful things I have said. He mentioned how differently we both see this. He told me that I'm the one that rushes off the phone and ends the conversation (very true because I'm hurt and thought that's what im supposed to do)and that I do not call

He said there is no other woman. I asked him if he would be jealous if I had other person and he said yes of course. I know that was a pushy question and pursuing. I'm just so desperate for some type of affection.

He said that I am playing the victim and I have not taken any accountability for my self and my role. That I think it's all him. I disagreed.

He says " I don't know" when I asked him how he wants to proceed. And that I need to work on myself and he needs to work on himself regardless of what happens. He basically said that I need to do all the things that are recommended in the divorce busting books (no he does not read self help or relationship books) and that when I act insecure and blow up at him (27 days ago) it does not make him want to fix things.

I feel like it was good because his conversation with me showed that he is still attached to me. He knows infidelity is my boundary and reassured me that this not occurring. (I was badly hurt from that in a prior relationship and Ended everything). If he truly wanted to end things this is all that would have to occur. but bad because I feel like he has all these excuses to keep this going a long time. It's also bad because we see things so differently. I also feel like it is difficult for us to empathize with each other.

Right now I long for companionship. I am lonely. I want someone to share life with. I want intimacy and he has closed himself off for who knows how long. I have felt like this even when he was here and I am just sick of it.
For me working on reconciliation would mean dates, and counseling, and talks, and he wants space. When I give him space he mentions I don't call him.

I am so unhappy and lonely. I hate my living situation. I'm not sure how much time to give it, and I don't know how to work on me to make myself happy.

I feel like he gets a vacation. Can go and come as he pleases. No responsibilities. Knows he has me waiting for him.