Thank you for responding V. I will begin responding to your questions tomorrow night.
Today was a good day. I had planned to go to a sculpture garden with my eldest daughter all week. The weather was good. I asked my wife if she wanted to come mid morning. She said maybe. One hour later she said no, I said okay. One hour before we were leaving, she said she changed her mind and would come. I waited to this morning to invite her because she has stopped planning ahead and will say no to everything.
It was a nice afternoon and everything went as I would have expected. There was some small talk that went well. We all went out to dinner later and that was fine. She is in her room now with the dog. She said that she had enough of everyone and wanted to be alone. So here I am with you and watching Dr. Who.
Today was a good day. I know that it is a predictor of nothing. I know I still maybe divorced. I also know that the past cannot be changed and today was a good day.
I realized there is an area that I need to work on, validating responses. I read the cheat sheet a while ago but because there has been so little conversation between us, for so long, I could not practice and improve my technique. I will now practice on my kids so if and when I am lucky enough to talk to my wife again validating responses with be second nature for me.
I am glad you had a good day, Mutatio. Validating is hard, and I am in the same boat, with very limited communication you have few chances to validate. I also agree with V that you need to call out W on her rude behavior.
Hope you have a peaceful evening. You are doing really well. And I love the title's of your threads.
Ignoring you is in my opinion the adult equivalent of sulking and passive aggressive behaviour. If you asked " do you want to talk about it", You would only get petulance. It's hurt hobbit behaviour, which only WW can resolve.
This is a big sulk by WW, an enormous big sulk. Like a teenager.
WW is silently saying that deep hurt is being felt because in her eyes you are utterly selfish. I am not saying you are selfish by the way, just WW has a thought you are.
Disappearing to another room isn't an option because you might forget that she is having a huge sulk so she is very visible and she pretends you don't exist. But it has to be where you can see her or it won't have an effect. Especially dramatic on your arrival or departure.
Guy Browning says:
No eye contact is the clearest possible sign that a major sulk is under way and secondly, if you were to do anything funny or loving she might inadvertently smile and the sulk would be irreparably damaged. It's a cast-iron rule that once a sulk has started it must not be interrupted. It's like frozen food - once you've defrosted you can't then refrost.
Sulks can last anywhere between seven minutes and seven years. Teenagers are in an almost perpetual sulk because they are in a continual state of being misunderstood.
When people are in a sulk they discover how much harder everyone else has to work to humour them. Some people enjoy this so much that they decide to become permanently grumpy.
The sulk, like the trifle, is a peculiarly British thing. That's because it's the form of emotional expression for people who don't know how to express themselves. The sulk says, "I can't express myself, so I'm not going to express anything and you'll just have to guess what I would have expressed had I been able to express what I wanted to express."
The sulkee then has to decide their response to the sulker. Ignoring the sulk is like ignoring the laundry basket - it'll keep building up until it gets very unpleasant indeed. What's generally required to end a sulk is a mixture of complete attention, physical reassurance, brief subjection to verbal sarcasm, and then major admission of guilt and selfishness.
As the air clears it's absolutely vital not to say, "That was a big sulk, wasn't it?" This is the quickest possible way of launching the world's largest, longest and deepest sulk.
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I do hope there is a pout to go along with it, an insy lip quiver or a bite to hold ithe lip still.
The best thing to do is to ignore it, this beast will keep reappearing the more attention you give it. Don't say nice things, don't jolly along, when entering just smile and nod, stay silent. No reaction, smiling face, you are pleased to be home, so normalise. Hell, even whistle a happy tune.
Otherwise you are temp checking every time you do.
It's a behaviour that may stop when you act as if it isn't happening.
It's a behaviour that happens when there is poor emotional education. Let it be that.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 09/20/1506:50 AM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
The above is conflicted Guy Browning suggests that the sulker wants soothing, but of course with an adult this won't work as if you soothe they have a chance to reject you. This is passive aggressive revenge. Poor emotional regulation often as a result of childhood indulgence by a parent. This isn't disengagement to get thinking time and cooling off. Space to process, as it happens every time it's pointed.
It can also happen as a way of setting one parent against another.
It's manipulation and level 3 ( on a scale to 6) abuse, ignoring you. Very unpleasant. You can see it as disengagement an alternative to a full blown rant.
So what has caused this passive aggressive behaviour?
I think it's a poor coping style because of, fear of failure, resistance to authority, repressed anger. It can also be depression.
Try not to label WW, although I think you do need respect. This is very disrespectful and I think important you don't take it personally, although it feels very personal and pointed. It's more about WW than you. It's her issue not yours and I know that is hard when you feel you are the target. The alternative is tantrums and ranting. Passive aggressive= passive + aggressive, passive without open anger, is still angry. Although disengagement is better than openly ranting.
Were her parents controlling and intolerant, punishing her when she disagreed, sending her to her room for hours for asserting herself or were they indulgent, possibly one indulgent and the other resistant to that?
This won't have come out of the blue, it's likely been a small game between the two of you that worked. It will have its roots somewhere in soothing or its being done because in the past it has been effective tactic. It can stop being effective, you are not responsible for WW health and happiness she is.
Your higher power is asking you to dig deep. The answer is there.
Validate if you can and then go be active elsewhere. If it persists then the adult in you may need to acknowledge the disengagement in some way. Maybe something to think how that could be done.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 09/20/1507:36 AM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Such a great post V you are amazing with your wealth of knowledge
Mutatio sounds like you had a lovley day i do not know about you but I find whenever I have a nice day that involved my w I feel hope but then reality hits again
Enjoy the day for what it is
Take care my friend
Ghost
Me:48 W 41 M:18 T:26 2 D 18 & 4 2 S 17 & 13 Bomb: 20/7/2015 in house separation D filed 06/17 Separate houses 10/17 D Final 29/12//17.
Ghost I am like you but I've learned though is past performance is not an indicator of future results. It was a gift from the universe and I will move forward knowing Christmas comes but once a year.
Vanilla, thank you for sharing your wisdom with me. I will answer you questions about me tonight. I do have a moment now to answer your questions about my wife.
Her parents are both smart. Her father worked and her mother ran the house, as it was in that generation. My FIL is a very wise man. My MIL is strong willed and wants things her way, the right way, just so. My wife has one older sister. SIL was the rebel, challenged her mother and wanted to do things her way. My wife is very smart, saw the SIL MIL battles and chose a different path. My wife is an advoider, she kept/keeps her parents in the dark, has no conflict and does what she wants.
V said "I think it's a poor coping style because of, fear of failure, resistance to authority, repressed anger. It can also be depression."
I think it is all of the above. At times she is depressed.
V said "Were her parents controlling and intolerant, punishing her when she disagreed, sending her to her room for hours for asserting herself or were they indulgent, possibly one indulgent and the other resistant to that?"
MIL is controlling. Not sure about the rest.
V, should I mention the ignoring me when I say good morning? I am back on the fence. Maybe I should say good morning and ignore her rudeness. If she gives me the silent treatment there is not much I can do about. She talks about issues, briefly and to the point. Just nothing extra. I can live like this now. She must be struggling. I feel I should just ride it out while I work on myself. I love my wife and feel she needs to work through her own issues.
Let's see what tomorrow brings. Thoughts V, anyone?
Sorry for some reason the great internet in the sky scrambled my post. (Scratches head in bewilderment)
I would just say "morning, want a coffee' if she ignores you say ' that's a no then, ok"
Whistle, make happy busy noises, clanking of dishes, music on the radio and move on.
The headphones trick works too, listen to the MP3 player, take headphone out of one ear, cock head, shrug shoulders, then put ear phones back in.
Music selection of awesome, or meditation as the mood takes you. Any thing that raises your mood. In addition before you enter the house or room, ground yourself.
Another trick is to give your strong sexy Mutatio self a name, you are good at naming, call on him before you sashay into the room. Wear sassy aftershave, not the fly spray type most men wear. Freshen before you enter. Wakes your senses. Changes your state, this is a good habit to acquire. Acting as if changes your state.
If you want to see how to do it then a demo by Tony Robbins on the Operah Lifeclass live stage with a guy who tapped into his "general" persona. It's about 32 minutes in and is a live demo.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Vanilla asked these questions of my past and I will try to answer them now. You may want to change the channel its not interesting.
Why did you decide to work for FIL?
I wanted to make money and his business was doing very well. By getting a good paying job out of the gate we could buy a house and start a family right a way.
Having done that why did you continue when it was clearly damaging to you?
By the time I realized that I didn't like the work I was trapped. My wife worked part time to be with children so my income was needed for family, mortgage and everything else. I felt obligated to my FIL/MIL they took me in and trained me. I worried what they would think of me, leaving a good paying job and putting everything at risk because I was unhappy in a job FIL did all his life. Fear I would not measure up. I could never find a job that paid as well.
Where does the desire to submit to this come from?
I thought it was the right thing to do. I had to be a man and do what had to be done for the family even if I didn't like it.
Have you always 'fitted' or made 'best fit'.
I don't understand your question, I'll guess at what your asking. All my work has been similar. My job for FIL was a salesman. I was not very good at it. I went back to previous type job after quitting and much happier.
Knowing there was a bad fit what did you do? Re skill? If not why not?
I worked 12-14 hour day, worked midnight to 2 pm. came home, always exhausted, watched kids, maintained house and went to bed around 7-8 pm to get 4 hours sleep. Did this for 16 years. There was no time to train to be a better salesman.
When did you break free of this and how did it happen?
Two big events happened in the last few years that ended up slowly killing the business. I began to hate going to work. I felt the business was dying, there was nothing I could do about it and I did not want to stay to the bitter end. I found a new job and then I quit. The business lasted 3 more years and then closed.
Had you been bendy man before, twisting like a pretzel to fit in?
This salesman job was the first time I tried to do something I was not good for a long period of time in my life. Now I'm guessing your meaning more then just work, but life. Since 2008 and my wifes EA/PA I became co-dependent and would do anything to please her out of fear of losing her.
Is this still a factor in your life?
I am working in a profession that is a good match for my skill set. Again I'm guessing your meaning more then just work, but life. I am not codependent like before BD and am doing GAL things now.
Vanilla, I am happy to answer more questions if you have them. Thank you for helping me improve myself.
I waited to this morning to invite her because she has stopped planning ahead and will say no to everything.