Any differences between WAH's and WAW's? (2)

[JulieH]

I am pretty sure no chance of reconciliation if I file (better option long term for our family). But then again, a guy not paying child support is pretty deplorable. Can anybody analyze this for me?

It's natural to think this way, but it's not a good compass to use. You cannot control what he does or doesn't do. You have to do what you know is right for your family.

It's possible that no matter what you do he never turns back.
It's possible that him experiencing consequences for his choices brings him to rock bottom much more quickly than if you enabled.
It's possible he does get pissed, but a year or two after the D sees his life isn't so hot.

So many ways for it to unfold, the best thing to do is detach, do what you believe you're supposed to do, and have faith that if you're the woman you believe you're supposed to be, things will work out for YOU regardless of how that looks.

Thank you Zues, you have given a lot of good advice throughout this board (maybe one day you will write your own DR book ) and I am going to catch up with your threads

Its funny that you used the word "enable". I have always complained about his mom being a big time enabler (he admitted she was one as well ), but never thought of myself as one. I never thought of him as weak or someone that needs to hit rock bottom either. Instead I keep thinking of my own shortcomings.

The anger I feel over this issue is consuming me and makes it hard for me to empathise with husband. I am going to keep rereading your post (and others) regarding this issue. I know I can't let this go on too much longer. I can file for child support without filing for divorce. I just have to be ready to deal with those consequences as well.

It all comes down to having confidence and trust in my own perceptions. Because I have a lot of anxieties (I can convince myself I have certain diseases etc) i am often not sure if I am being rational or perceiving things realistically. It makes it so difficult to trust my decision making. I want to be fair but I don't want to be taken advantage of. I'm willing to give in if it means a better outcome for all involved (especially kids)

I have been faithful, and loyal and I never walked away. I never self medicated (can't even if I wanted to. I'm up very early with the kids). I remain a great mom. Rarely resorted to petty behaviors. I expressed my desire to reconcile. At least in the future I will have that to look back on.

[Zues126]

Did you read the post on my thread (alligator love) about the "Outer Limits" episode? I know JUST what you mean. This is so emotionally extreme your mind can play tricks on you. That's why it's so important to go slowly, and to really reflect on core beliefs instead of feelings sometimes.

Thanks for the kind words. We're all on this road together, that's for sure.

[JulieH]

I am posting right now to prevent me from contacting husband and asking him....

" why the sudden interest and increased contact regarding the kids? Why are you suddenly so agreeable and willing to wake up early for them? Is this what an attorney is advising you? (If that's the case it is so sad and pathetic) Are you trying to appease me so i don't push for what I'm entitled to? Are you suddenly in good mood because there is another woman?" He's acting the way I would have loved for him to be in the past but it's such a difference I don't trust it and it's making me question his motives. Before coming to these boards I would have called up asking about this. Right now all I can do is just go with it. I know I am asking questions there are no answers to. I know I have to detach.

Maybe this is what the WAS feels when the LBS does their 180s. The LBS really has to just be patient and continue to prove themselves despite initial distrust and anger.

[Zues126]

You know going down a mind reading road isn't good for detachment or for anything really...but if I had to guess, it would be that he's trying to be a better dad.

I wasn't the dad pre-BD I am today, not even close. STBX asked me the same thing in judging and accusatory tones. All I could say was the truth: That before I had lived with them, and it was easy to take having kids in my life for granted. But having been moved out for a few months, knowing what it was like without my family, and knowing that if I didn't take swift and bold action I might lose them forever...well, that wasn't acceptable so I had to step it up.

So try not to mind read, and if you have to at least give him the benefit of the doubt. That's not because he deserves it, but because that's the type of person you might like to be.

[JulieH]

I truly hope he's doing it for the kids and not for ulterior motives. I have been doing tons of vilifying, which is so unhealthy. (I actually was fantasizing about running into him today with another woman and her kids and how I would react and this became my reality for a little while...yes I know how crazy this sounds)

My family members tell me he has it too easy. He gets his independence and gets to see the kids when it's convenient for him. No financial obligations. Can do what he wAnts when he wants. I do not have this freedom. Between work and the kids I am exhausted. I hope that this is hard for him.

Despite all this I would rather be in my situation....

[JulieH]

As of now my situation is a lot easier then most others on this board.

For me there really is no change. My husband had been so neglectful and detached, that once he left there was no adjustment period for any of us. Took the kids a week to even notice. We were living with relatives so it's not like I have to downsize. I paid all my own bills and most bills pertaining to kids so financially once I file for child support it only gets better.

My husband pointed this out to me as well. So if Divorce is actually a win for me, why does he think I'm so at fault? Isn't it obvious I had been getting the short end of the marriage stick for a while? Why is it so hard for me to detach?

9 days straight with no critical comments, asking for reassurances or pursuing behaviors. But it's been very difficult. Being rejected really hurts. I tell myself at least I'm not the one that has to look back and say im the one that ended it. Although he has proabably already committed to a hundred ways to justify it.

[Zues126]

Funny, I can say the same thing about the end of my M.

STBX and I weren't talking for close to 6 months before BD. Not out of anger, but out of defeat. So it's not like separation changed much there.

From a 'win' perspective, my life will get better than THAT in many ways. I'll have more money, more freedom, the ability to interface with women that might actually like me, etc.

And, like you, I would never have walked, so I can at least know I didn't give in, and won't live with that guilt.

That all said, divorce is so horrible of a loss it sweeps over all of that. No matter how bad it was it was a marriage, and that was the foundation on which my life was built. No matter how many ways my life improves. And the loss was so great, not being 'at fault' for me would be like trying to console myself that I didn't light a fire that burned down my house with my family in it.

No matter how bad the M it could've improved, and likely would've improved, had we remained in it, and stopped being so stubborn in our own ways. It is a loss that I will not try to find a 'bright side' to.

I will, however, do my best to do what I should've been doing all along from this day forward. It won't undo what's been done, it's just the only thing I can do to avoid further damage to my children and myself. Through good decisions and appreciation for what we still have in our lives we find peace, and at times we're even blessed with relief and happiness.

Hoping some of those feelings come your way this week.

[JulieH]

Zues,

Yes. Its the loss that is so horrible. In addition to the loss of a family unit, it's the loss of respect and trust for our partner. I understand that life is a constant state of change and we can't really rely on anything or anyone being there or remaining who they were or who we thought they were. Life is hard in general because nothing we have is permanent. We can lose anyone we love at any moment in time. (That's why I am always anxious because I understand this but haven't learned to accept this lol)

I read your last post in your alligator thread and was wondering if you were asking about screening tools to determine if a potential partner would stay committed to a marriage even when it hits rock bottom? How to avoid being hurt again? Very interesting question. especially when people and situations are in constant flux. Hopefully our new knowledge in human relationships and our own contributions will help prevent the problems we had in our first marriages.

My husband seemed so committed and stable and secure and trustworthy. He never lied (I still don't think he's lied but I'm afraid of trusting) and he was brought up Christian and has faith. Yet he is ready to end a marriage with a wife that is pretty stable (except for anxiety) has never betrayed him, stays in shape, works, and is a great mother, (although not the best at housework) and most of all a wife that is willing to change and work on her issues
I myself was not brought up with any religious background and I don't even know if I believe in a god, but I have never considered giving up on a marriage.

I think our marriage could have improved. To be honest I needed a wake up call like this to really get it and to be willing to put the work in. I think it's too late though. It's always a matter of timing. When he wanted to work on it I was consumed (with children, with resentment, with sleep deprivation) when I wanted to work on it he was consumed (financially, work, resentment, his car) now with this separation I feel like we are just distancing more and more.

Good luck to you. While I have not been able to catch up with all your threads as of yet, you seem so resilient and self reliant. I think the right future partner will be very lucky to be committed to you and will really end up appreciating your self described "issues".

[JulieH]

Husband just came to pick up kids. He stayed a while and we made polite talk. It's so hard to keep the resentment out of my voice. Especially when I was up in the middle of the night convinced that there is another woman.

When I look at him and talk to him I don't think so though. While his friends are all alcoholics ( and many of them seem to be separating and divorcing) I know none of them were unfaithful. This issue kills me, because I place a high value on fidelity. I wanted so bad to ask again for the hundredth time if there is other woman. I know it would do no good but if there was I would move on.

I am proud of myself because I didn't go there today and hopefully I won't when he drops them off. It will ruin these past 9 days. I have been trying to approach this as an experiment...let's see if MWD's theory is true, The only way I will know is if I follow this and not contaminate the experiment with my needs for control, reassurance, security! This requires a bit of detachment, looking at it from outside of myself.

Men always want action! My husband would always say words mean nothing it is the actions that count. He was and is a horrible communicator. I would say if words mean nothing why have mine hurt you so much? Also actions can be so easily misinterpreted. (I don't know if he is being nicer and texting more because he wants to keep possibility for reconciliation open or because he has moved on and wants us to be amicable while co parenting) when I don't know how to interpret something I usually assume the worst and behave accordingly. But just words from him would clarify so much to me. I do know that words don't mean anything unless they are backed up with actions and that people can lie as well.

I know I know I have to detach. Not happening though, right now I am just attempting to fake detachment and that is hard!

[JulieH]

it's only hours later and now I miss my husband so much and I regret so many ways that I behaved in the past. I was so immature, I could have done so many things differently, I took for granted that he would always love me. I worry right now because anyone he meets will be so much better then me the past few years. I wish he would give us a second chance. (BT13. Your right, anger can feel better then regret)

When I read some of the posts written by a lot of the husbands who were LB, I feel like my behavior was similar to the ways their wives were when their relationships hit rock bottom (at the time I felt overwhelmed with kids and fatigued and stressed) In fact I read a lot of "I almost became a WAH" I remember my husband telling me years ago "all you care about is what I do for you. That's all anyone cares about. What I can do for them" I felt horrible at the time, and expressed that this was not true. It was not true, but this is how he perceived things and I can see why he perceived things this way.... Because I never really showed him my appreciation. I just viewed it as a fight that we made up afterwards, but his needs were never addressed. Now my husband became the WAH. IF he had stayed, detached and emotionally unavailable would I have ended up leaving? I guess I will never know, I do know I tried this past year, but not in the right ways (giving him space, becoming needy)

I have expressed my desire to reconcile in texts. I hope my very cruel blow up did not permanently ruin things. (It very nearly did and quite possibly has) I don't think there is anything at this point that I can do but let him go and hope he chooses to work on us.
My 180s have been accepting his lateness without critisism and Stopping many snide remarks. I have limited contact with him right now. He has been initiating most texts and they pretty much concern the kids. I only initiate if I need something for the kids. Is this bad since his old comment was about him feeling used by me? He responds nicely if I send him a friendly text, but I don't know if I should do that too much? I have asked him in past to go on outings with me and kids and he has gone but has always said "I don't want to Mislead you this is about the kids and doing thing as a family". Should I stop this because he should know what it will be like if it does come to divorce or is it good to get the time together since we are physically separated and only see each other during drop offs/pick ups.


I'm sorry everyone, I know I'm being a bit of a poster hog. The writing out my thoughts really does help me though. I hope one day I will be able to support and help others as much as Everyone has helped me.