I read up on your sitch during the weekend, I typically never post as its from my phone and just so hard to type out the longer responses .. especially with sensitive issues like what you are going through.
That vent you typed out ... no bashing nor 2x4's as yes .. this place is a safe house, those words/feelings most of us have been there, if you are going to release that I think everyone here would say ... yes... do that HERE, just never write them/show them/tell them to your W right now as it would only send her off even faster.
You have some of the heavy hitters this forum has to offer trying to help you see the forest through the trees, You have only been here a couple weeks, everything is just so upside down .. I remember it all to well. Like I have said before, I did not find this place till well after my BD .... I made a few mistakes before coming to this forum, and a few more during ... we all do.
Wonka hit it with her post, something I have been thinking about with you .... you came into a Self Defense class and we are trying to teach you basic throws in order to simply defend yourself ... however you seem to be convinced that talking your way out of the altercation is the best way, Leaving us to scratch our heads as to why come here for help and tell us your tactics rather than learn the basics, the fundamentals, use them and see if they actually might help your situation.
OK, so I have been gone for a while. I found this forum was helpful in many ways but I also found I was getting attacked for questioning things or not following the letter of the law. One person told me, we all screw up and break the rules sometimes. But others seemed to be harsh and attack me on occasion and it just wasn't serving me.
Anyway, I realized I need to come back. I really don't have much support otherwise. Everyone thinks I should just give up. When I say I'm still trying to get her back they say "c'mon it's been two months and she hasn't changed her mind...." or "look she bought a house. that seems pretty final." So I have to keep to myself about this, except just one or two friends who are sympathetic to what I"m trying to do.
For the most part I am still following the instructions. I have made many 180 changes in my life. I have completely stopped pursuing her and asking her to change her mind. She is still living in the house for anohter month until she moves into a house she bought so we are interacting and I am making sure it goes well. I am practicing me new communication skills, looking her in the eye, showing interest, but also giving her space and not following her around everywhere she goes.
The hardest part for me is Get a Life. I really have a hard time going out and enjoying time with friends. I can pretend I'm OK when I'm around her because I realize that is important for my goal. But the minute she's gone I take a nose dive. When I go out to pick up the kids at soccer and I see our friends there chatting and smiling, I have a hard time. It seems like everyone else has a beautiful life except me. they all have a partner, financial stability, family stability, and I have nothing except my kids, and even they I feel like are not in a good place because of what is happening.
Another thing I really struggle with is having to keep everything inside and not being able to tell her even just some basic things, without groveling or begging. I really want to just tell her that even after 2 months, I have made some great strides in accepting what is happening but I still love her and I still want to repair our marriage. I want to tell her that before when we were together I didn't appreciate her as much as I should and now I appreciate her so much. I feel like when I don't tell her any of this stuff, I am just enabling her to move out and make it easy and also making her think that I don't really care about her or whether or not we are together. For us that was one of the reasons she left. I gave her the impression that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life with her. so I feel like by being indifferent I am confirming what she thought and she's thinking "see, he doesn't really care that I'm doing this. I knew he wouldn't." I feel a strong need to occasionally let her know that I do care and I don't like what is happening and I was wrong to give the impression before that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life with her.
Anyway. I came back because I need support. Most of my friends are only telling me to give up and that doesn't help. When she's around I can be happy, because I understand the need for that. But otherwise I am not doing well. Every day is a struggle. I need to talk to some other people who are going through what I'm going through. I am not looking for someone to criticize me for failing to "Get a Life" after 2 months, or to smack me for wanting to tell her I love her and want her back.
Is there anyone out there that understands what I'm going through?
Hi Gabs, welcome back and I'm glad you did decide to come back. It is true that if someone thinks they know better than the DB/DR approach, there can be some comeback. But know this, people only post in this way because they have your best interests at heart, and we all want you to succeed at this.
My advice would be to start from the foundations. Go back to DB101. Read DR again with a pencil this time, and make notes on the key messages there. Also, keep journaling and posting. Have a look at Anna's thread in Infidelity for a great post on GAL by 25yrs.
From how you describe your sitch, it sounds as though you feel very much 'glass half empty' just now. But with time and effort you can change this. We all have to recognise that our S's are gone just now and build our lives without them. GAL is such an important part of that.
It is easy to look around and think - everyone else has a great life. That's just not true my friend. I had dinner the other day with an old colleague who is happily married and has 3 kids. She cried and told me she and her H have fallen out about her eldest who is a bit off the rails just now. Everyone has trials and tribulations in their lives.
As a little GAL prescription, can I suggest you have a look at a TED talk whenever you start to feel low. They are only 20 minutes and I recommend Brene Brown, Shawn Achors, Amy Cuddy as a starting point.
Also, in terms of GAL, it needn't be mega social. But if there is something that gets you out of the house, active, immersed in something, around people. All of those things are good and your life will start to have more meaning - even without your spouse part of it.
Oh, and the other thing. Two months is a very short timescale. Very few sitches turn around in that time. Think more in terms of nine months plus, and then you're talking. I'm almost 14 months since BD and H is currently filing for D, with OW still on the scene. My life otherwise is pretty happy though - I've come a long way since the utter devastation at BD when I left our home, my job, the area etc.
Good luck to you Gabs - you can do this my friend :-)
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
thanks Sotto. I will go back and re-read the book some more but I have to say over half of it is not for people in my situation. It seems like chapter 7 to the end are all about working on the relationship once you have gotten her back to trying again.
I should mention I have been reading other materials too. The DR book is not the only place that talks about this stuff. The advice is farily consistent - be happy, don't grovel, don't pursue, don't resist, make changes in your life. He says he's been doing this for 45 years and has saved thousands of marriages. Much of the advice is the same as the DR book, but he has some more insights as to what is going on in the head of the other person and some of it is helpful to me. He also goes a step further in some cases. In being "aloof" for example... he actually suggests that you date other people and says the majority of his cases, when the Wayward person turns around, it is often when the left-behind-spouse actually starts dating again that they start to rethink things.
anyway I just wanted to put that out there.... I was able to find a free download of the ebook. it helps to konw that Michelle's ideas are not totally unique and others who ahve been working on this for a long time have similar suggestions. the McDonald book has 44 suggestions, similar to the 37 posted here and there is a lot of overlap.
Sometimes I'm not sure what is the best thing to do. Any thoughts on this are appreciated.
My W has bought another house and will be moving out in 5 weeks. I see these last 5 weeks as an opportunity to show her my 180s and remind her of my good qualities. I realize I'm supposed to be somewhat aloof but I feel a need to balance this against this being my last chance to shine on a regular basis.
So I have been cooking nice meals. I have always been the cook in the house but I am making an extra effort to make nice dinners so she remembers my cooking once she is gone. I have been asking her how her day was and really using my new communication skills (listening, repeating back, looking in the eye). I have been giving her space but also being very nice to her, helping her do something if she asks.
I have been very non-confrontational with her. I honor her ideas and pretty much go along with them. I am being very friendly, happy. trying to show I am a strong happy person (even though inside I am a wreck). If the kids want to play a game and have both parents involved I'm all for it and I try to be happy and goofy and have a good time at it.
for the most part we are getting along very well. when I ask how her day is we usually have a nice conversation.
I'm trying to remind her I'm a good person with good traits and be the "person only a fool would leave" (a phrase I've heard here before).
so my question is, i have read here online and i think also in the book that I should just give short answers to questions to her questions and keep my own space most of the time. I am not sure how to balance that with being the person "only a fool would leave." these two ideas seem to be contradictory. if I just give short answers, keep my space as much as possible, then I am not being a person "only a fool would leave." A person "only a fool would leave" is someone who makes delicious meals, cleans up the house, is good at communicating, etc.
this is particularly confusing to me because I feel like I have a short window of opportunity while she is still living in the house and I don't want to waste it. once she's gone she won't be able to taste my delicious cooking, or see how well I can communicate and show interest in her life (like I didn't before). how do I balance this? I realize no one has all the answers but if anyone has input, I'm all ears. thanks.
In my opinion, BEING a person only a fool would leave and SHOWING her a person only a fool would leave are not the same thing.
I dont think that she is paying any attention to the things you are doing right now, because she is fixated on moving out. Its one thing to make these changes when she is watching; it is totally different to make these changes when she is not.
I dont believe that anything will change in the next 5 weeks. I think you shouldnt look at it as a last chance to change things. As co-parents, you will still have plenty of chances for interaction in the future. With that said, you dont want to be "aloof", but you dont want to chat her ear off. Be pleasant and friendly, but you dont want to bear your soul.
Glad that you are back, but Im sorry that your situation hasnt improved.
Thanks Azzork, but I can't see how it wouldn't make a difference if I make these changes now. Some of them are directly related to how we interact. Showing her I can communicate better than before, I think that is important.
She is noticing my changes (and has a couple times mentioned it and asked me about it), Even if she suspects it is only for her benefit, I still think this would be better than if I just kept doing everything the way I was before.
I agree that she's not going to change her mind in the next 5 weeks. She has bought a house. She is moving there. I am telling myself this is a necessary step in the process. she has to test out the other side of the fence and see if the grass is greener before she is ever going to think about coming back. that is partly my coping mechanism, to think of it that way, but it is also logical. So I don't expect my 180s to make her change her mind and not move out. it's too late for that. But I do think/hope that it will have some impact on how she thinks of me once she is gone, even if just minimal. And anyway, i'm not just doing it for her. I've learned everything isn't black and white. It's OK if I'm motivated partially to make these changes for her, but I also recognize they are good changes I'm glad I'm making for myself. For example, I used to sleep in in the morning and I never saw her or the kids in the morning. Now I am getting up early and making the kids breakfast. It's great to have time to see the kids in the morning. It also is showing my wife one more of the many things that have changed about me.
I think this is an important thing. If I just kept sleeping in in the morning, being a bad communicator, not listening to her ideas, not reacting with anger, (and many other things) she would have no reason to even consider coming back here, ever. If she has multiple reasons to recognize that I have changed, I think it changes things. If her image of me is exactly the same as I was, if she ever thinks about coming back she will say "why should I do that, it will just be exactly the way it was." Now at least there is a tiny shred of thought in her mind, "well it did seem like he was changing a lot. maybe things would be better."
so I am not chatting her ear off, not bending over backwards to do things for her, I need to show her my changes. It's not a fake play I put on though... it's who I am becoming. For example, I'm using my communication skills and not reacting with anger, not just with her. I do it with my kids too. So it is good for everyone. And I think she notices when she hears me communicating with the kids. It can't be hurting my cause.
I believe the biggest challenge you face is your quest to achieve "balance" between doing the things you should and doing the things you should not. Unfortunately, with pursuing, there is no balance. Pursuing "a little bit" is like being a little bit pregnant. Either you are pregnant or you are not, there is no potential for balance.
You can't be "a little aloof" either. Either you are aloof or you are engaged. If you are a little aloof you will come across as someone who is engaged and is pretending to be aloof, which is just confusing. I don't agree with the suggestion to be aloof, by the way, and I also don't agree with the suggestion that you should date. That's simply not fair to the person you would be dating, regardless of the benefits it might have for your cause. Also, it's likely you will find someone who really likes you, and you're not ready for that, so when you ultimately have to tell them you don't want to go on another date you'll feel even worse than you do now.
The difficult thing about this forum is that everything about this situation depends on the nuance. In many ways it's much more the how than the what with regard to what you do and what you say. Your body language, your tone, your timing, it all matters and it's impossible to communicate in this format.
In what you're writing, you are coming across as manic -- putting on a frenzied show of being an ideal husband in the hope that you can completely erase 20+ years of marriage before the 5 week deadline expires. That is probably just how it's coming across as the nuance of how you're doing it is important, but it's something to be mindful of nonetheless.
I would completely ignore the 5 week horizon, it will just lead you to thrash. Your wife will also pick up on your energy, and will be emotionally exhausted by the unspoken pressure you're exerting. Better to give both of you a break through this difficult transition.
Rather than trying to be the Army Corps of Engineers and attempting to control all aspects of the situation, you will be better served to float with the current for a while. Focus on you, your changes, processing your feelings, and being good to your children.
Surrender to the fact that you cannot control the outcome here. That's not trivial. You have to simply surrender yourself to the fact that you cannot influence what your wife ultimately decides to do. Once you are able to surrender to that, you will feel a sense of relief.
Good things await you -- your life will be great again regardless of what happens. The more work you do on yourself the better it will be. That's the part you can control -- be the man you want to be, and take your focus off of W.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
