I think what we are all getting at is that "letting her go" and "moving on" are NOT the same thing.
The way that I understand DB is that you take the following steps: 1) identify the areas that you need to make improvements/changes based on your feelings about yourself and the things your spouse did not like about you. How you treat people, how you interact with people, your habits, your tendencies, your thought processes, etc. 2) change the things you identified in part 1. A big part of this is the buzzwords: PMA, GAL, detachment. This allows you the space, time, and attitude to make these changes. This step takes a lot of time for the changes to become ingrained behaviors and not just showpieces. I'm talking months. Not days/weeks but months/years. 3) now you will be ready for your next relationship, be it with your W or another woman. Time will tell after you finish step 2 who that lucky lady will be; there's no way to tell now.
The way you change the dynamic is by changing YOU, not changing HER. If you skip right to step 3 ("moving on") what have you done? You've just shortcut the whole process. Sure, you may get your W to change her mind (unlikely, but possible), but you haven't actually changed anything about YOU, so the things you're doing now, the "wake up call", it won't LAST. The only way for this to work is for you to put in the work on yourself.
Become the Gabs only a fool would leave! By the time you become him, you will care much less whether she stays or goes, because you will know you will be OK either way!
To my original point, nowhere in steps 1 or 2 did I mention what your W is up to. That's because it's not about HER. It's about YOU. So let her go. She's going to do what she's going to do anyway. What she does isn't really your concern right now. She wants to buy a house, she wants to date, she wants to learn voodoo.....it doesn't really matter right now, because you can't control her. It will matter when you reach step 3....but it doesn't matter NOW.
Originally Posted By: Gabs
For now I'm going to be someone that only a fool would leave. It's not really clear what that is though, because this site seems to say I should be aloof, mysterious, almost playing hard to get.... but to me someone who only a fool would leave is a person who is caring, interested, and present.
YES. only a fool would leave a person that is those things.
But your wife does not want that from YOU right now. But your kids, your friends, your colleagues, your family. They want those things. So be that to THEM.
The changes are for YOU. Not for your wife. Not to convince her of your sincerity. If you try to be caring or interested in your wife, it comes off as "too little too late" and drives her away!
Last edited by Cadet; 02/01/1809:28 PM. Reason: Combine posts
What do you do for fun with your kids? How are they doing? How can you make this sitch better and easier for them? When was the last time you went out and had fun with them?
Last night, my D was up late in her bed and started complaining. When I went in, she said her hand was hurting her. Old me would have gotten upset that she was playing in her bed and not sleeping. New me sat down and made up some silly ways to fix it before settling on rubbing her back.
My W is long moved out. She will never know of this interaction. But that doesn't make me any less caring. doesn't change the quality of the relationship between my daughter and me.
The changes are for ME. If my wife is interested, she come back to find a more caring partner.
I can understand the temptation to date, it's another one of your efforts to make things better quickly. I know it's tempting, and dating truly can be very rewarding. That said, you are no longer in your 20's. The dating world you will find is quite different than what you might remember. For one thing, you have to have a thick skin. The norm these days on Match is for people to just not respond to you at all. You can write them a two page message and chances are you'll get nothing back. If you do engage with someone, they can disappear at any time for no reason. The point is, getting a good date is not as easy as falling off a turnip truck, and you have to be in a place where you can weather some rejection. Like anything else, you get back what you invest, and for the experience to be good you need to make a substantial investment of time and emotion.
You, my friend, are in no place to do that right now. The dating world can be wonderful but you really have to be "ready", and part of that readiness is pushing forward with DB, making your changes, processing your grief, and coming out the other side confident that Gabs has Gabs figured out, that your relationship skills are as sharp as they can be, and that you are a partner that anyone would be lucky to have. When you have that attitude, you'll be good with dating because you'll know you're a prize to be won.
Dating and dating sites are not an appropriate path for you right now. Focus on Gabs.
It's very, very, very, very hard and we all know that. It was the hardest thing I have ever done, but I'm better for it. Dig deep my friend, dig deep.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Gabs .... I see you are still in that quicksand pit and as predeicted other members have given you some pretty solid advice.
The "Dating" topic has been tossed around here often. There are times when in the situation it is actually something that should be thought about/discussed however ..... you just had BD ... there is a time and place for things ... and again ... dating this quick to BD will only tell your wife everything she needs be gone.
The reason she has told you to find someone else .... is to ease her own guilt ... she very well might have an OP on the side ... or maybe its just so she can share that 'bad guy' plate with you.
Its very hard not to be all up in thier head ... its also tough when you first arrive here to know what you should and should not do ... this is why one of the first things thrown at the newbies is sandi's 37 as its a very good operators manual when you are swimming in a sea of emotions.
Reading your posts I get you are really confused as to detaching, appearing you are moving on, all that stuff. You arrived here fresh after BD, thats a good thing for you .. I actually did not find this place till about 9 months after. In a way it was better for me .. I imagine I would be doing just as you are now ... I did it alone, you have the gift of a sounding board, comprised of people who are Pro M and Pro Human development .. very strong thing to have in your corner my friend.
IF ... IF you can take a step back and see this for what it is. Lets look at the start of your relationship. Obviously she was attracted to you, not running ... so you pursued her. This is what you are trying to recreate .... thing is she knows your tactics, she can smell your bait like a shark from miles away .. all that is repulsive to her. At the moment she is wayward.
I had an epiphany during my DB process as I seriously struggled with the detachment process (I was easily sucked in, with her actions .. and what I thought I was seeing) I started approaching my W and the interations we had as a science project. I am very analytical, I used what some consider a weakness DB wise into a strenghth .... I emotionally detached and just marked progress. The trick is .. and the challange you are faced with at this pivotal moment is not to fix and save your M .... you can not do that alone without your W .. the trick is damage control, stop making things worse. Look at BE on this forum ... he smothered his W though we begged him not to .. drove by OM's house several times ... became obsessed and it drove his W into running faster and further ... I still have hope in his sitch and I have the same for yours ..... why? Because I saved mine, Currently I am 3 months away from saying I have been separated for 2 YEARS .... through this time my W had an OM, said she has not loved me in 10 years, filed for D 3 times and we were just signatures away from it becoming final. But now ... after alot of hard work on myself...We attended Retrouvaille, have been actively working on our M and our issues. We have been staying together for 6 weeks and we plan on moving back in with each other in about 2 months (When my lease is up). There is hope in all this .. regardless of the M or not .... I can tell you I am happy with the large changes I made in my life, I am at a point I would love to be M to my W, but I also would be just dandy alone... the M does not define me nor who I am as a man.
How did I do it? What is the magic Bullet?
Well ... no magic bullet ... I did it by realizing that I MATTERED. I had little to offer when I was a lap dog running around praying for scraps of attention, begging for W to come back. I, like most here had to crawl before I could walk, then figured out how to run.
I started by making small changes (as small as simply making the bed every morning), some based on legit gripes my W had. Some were more about who I felt I WANTED to be. Concept Cali 2.0 was born. I made a list about myself, things I liked ... along with a parallel list of things I didn't. Then a 3rd list of traits I admired in others. Line by line I took the bad traits and replaced them with traits I admired in others ... hence becoming a man only a fool would leave.
^^^^ Rebuilds your confidence ... drowning in quicksand does not. Making knee jerk reactions (Writing letters out of panic, Joining a dating site solely for reactions) does not.
Gabs, get out of bed and start to learn how to crawl again. Get your GAL list started. Look/read around here for ideas
For me I began to: Eat healthier, got rid of fast food, sodas ... all that. I started to take pride in my appearance even if I was not going to leave the house. I began to run ... used an app to track progress. I joined a Softball Team Joined a Football team Bought a Harley I went to church ... converted to Catholicism (Met every Wed for 6 months) I coached my S's baseball/soccer team.
This ^^^ Increased my self esteem, my PMA, .... this also showed my W that I was not going to 'break' without her .. infact it showed I could thrive. While she was in fantasy land with her A, I was making a true man out of myself and not allowing her actions to control me. I not only became a man a fool would leave ... I became a man others admired and respected. I got my mojo back. You have to crawl before you can run the marathon.
You can do this ... but you have to start slow. I get your hesitancy on detaching but this list I shared... how could doing these things hurt? I will tell you this ... if you focus on this stuff, it takes your focus off your W .... do not tell her what you are doing ... and if you have not read it .. MAKE SURE you hide this site ... we had a member whose W found him here so all these things appeared to be tricks to manipulate her back into the M ... but honestly its more about rebuilding YOU and creating an attractive person again.
Great post Cali. The scientific view of 2.0'ing is a great way to look at it. I like the list idea as well of things you like and dislike about yourself.
Your willingness to share your story has changed a lot of lives on here Cali, thank you.
PP
M 39 W 36 T5 M3 BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day Served 9/15 D finalized 6/17
thanks Cali. i should clarify. I often come here when I am at a low point. so that's what you're seeing mostly. but i am getting out of bed and I have been working on myself. Gabs 2.0 has already been born. A week after the BD, I cut my hair and that's when it started. If you want to hear the changes I've made since this began:
-- quit drinking (although I never drank that much) -- quit cannabis -- got a haircut -- started wearing nicer clothes -- trimming my beard close every day -- showering every day and using lots of deoderant -- started riding my bike every day -- started meditating every day -- started going to bed earlier and getting up earlier -- yoga -- reading books on communication skills, anger management, and DB
admittedly I am not eating well, but I'm not hungry, and I have lost weight... but I needed to lose 10 pounds so I'm hoping to keep it off.
i want to comment about the self esteem, confidence, being a man that others respect and admire...etc. this is a strange one for me. trying not to sound vain... but I am already well respected in my community. I have several educational/environmental projects that are well known. I've gone to Haiti to put solar panels on a school. I'm in a band... I wrote a book... I'm the coach of the kid's baseball team. I've met the Governor, and both of our Senators. I've had my face in the paper and on TV for many of these things.. People often come up to me and say I'm an interesting guy... I have a passion for doing good things and trying to make the world a better place and people know that and admire that in me. I am a confident person. But for some reason this has never served me in my relationship. She appreciates what I do but i think she also gets frustrated that all my projects leave little time for her. So if I go out there now and engage in some project that gives me recognition and admiration, I think it would be "more of the same" to her and I'm not sure it would show her much of anything.
The bottom line, I definitely had some bad habits and I didn't give my wife the attention she needed. I have identified several things that needed to change in my life and I am working on them. Gabs 2.0 is not so much about gaining admiration because I've been there and done that. Gabs 2.0 is about being a better husband, which I can't do right now. So I am doing the things I listed above which will hopefully show her that if she did come back I really am a different person now and I would be a better husband. She was convinced that I would never change but it's my job to show her I have changed. And that these changes are not just band-aids to try to get her back. They are real changes. And, I think the more of these changes she sees, and the longer they endure, the more she has to ask herself if they are just temporary changes in an effort to get her back, or maybe I really am changing.
To be clear, I have not groveled or begged since I came to this forum. I really have changed my tact. I understand that being sad and begging makes her not want to be around me and pushes her away further. I learned that here and have taken that to heart.
It is true, I am depressed, and I do have trouble getting out of bed and I have times when I really get down thinking what is happening and I can't block it out of my mind. BUT, I do not show this to her. I have not groveled or cried around her in quite a while and I have made an effort to pretend I'm happy, especially around the kids. When she is there and we talk I use my new communication skills to look her in the eye and really listen to what she's saying. She is noticing. At first she looked away and felt uncomfortable but now she is looking back at me.
A part of me has to believe I'm starting to crack through. I know she doesn't want to see that I'm changing. She doesn't want to believe it.
But I am fueled by a very solid belief that deep down inside her, she loves me. She even has told me that she loves me recently (of course in the middle of a sentence like "I love you and care about you but we are not meant for each other"). But, she is surviving now and moving forward because she has closed her heart and she's not looking down there. But I know it's down there on the other side of that wall she built around her heart. I believe it's going to crack through. I believe the way to crack through is with many of the things I've learned here. I need to give her space and try to slow her down. I need to stop groveling. I need to be the change and not talk about it and promise it.
She has told me before, not long ago, that she knows we are soulmates. I believe if a person says that and means it, they can't just change their mind a few months later.
The main reason she left was not because she didn't love me. It was because I was neglecting her and she didn't feel loved BY me. I agree I did a bad job at that. But I'm showing her how much I love her now. It's going to take some time for her to believe me. But that's all I can do.
I can tell you, in spite of my wife's effort to get out, and get out fast, we have been having some nice interactions lately. Perhaps it's because the kids are around and she wants things to be nice in the house. But one of the rules I haven't been great with, is being aloof. When she comes back from the dentist, I ask her how it was. I engage in a way that I didn't before. I need her to experience Gabs 2.0, which is a person who is really interested in her life. I can tell you, she's not resisting. She is answering my questions and cracks a smile sometimes. I feel this is what I need to do. I need to show her I'm better at communicating and listening and being interested in her. I think it takes her by surprise when I do this. I think this is better than being aloof, for me right now.
OK, enough typing. I just was getting the feeling that those reading this thread thought I was still crying and begging around my W and not doing anything to become Gabs 2.0 when that is not the case. I really feel like a different person already. And I have hope that I'm starting to wear away at that wall she has built around her heart and someday a little crack is going to open up and that love light is going to shine.
Your thoughts are exactly the same as mine or at least exactly as my thoughts were.
Your W and you are at two completely different time zones she has been feeling her pain for a number of years exactly the same as me and my wife.
When people talk about quicksand this is what it feels like but her mind was made up years ago just like my W made her mind up
I have done all the things you have said you are doing and it has not worked I am not giving up but I am starting to move forward.
The pain gets less each day and not a day goes by when I think if only she could give me one more chance I would show her how different I would be....but she wont she does not want to be back at the point of feeling so hurt,she has cried her tears years ago and has spent time with me in the M to justify why she should get out of our M
I am not sure if my W and I living together in the same house is for the best or not yes it keeps us all together but it is just so painful we are in limbo and I do not know how long to do this for.
I really feel your upset but you like myself have to move on from this so try to be strong and become a better Gab
Take care
Me:48 W 41 M:18 T:26 2 D 18 & 4 2 S 17 & 13 Bomb: 20/7/2015 in house separation D filed 06/17 Separate houses 10/17 D Final 29/12//17.
So my wife is about to go on a trip to visit her dad and brother.
I read in the DB book that talking with friends and family is not helpful to saving a marriage because they only get one side of the story and of course they want to support her.
I am thinking it might not hurt if I just send a short letter to them before she goes. It would be short and to the point, just acknowledging what is happening, saying I love my W, I've identified some issues that contributed to her feeling neglected and I'm working very hard on myself, and that I love them too.
I just think if I do nothing, it's going to be all her side of the story and they're going to be supporting her and telling her it was a good idea and soforth.
